Why are they gay?

[ReformedChapin]

So what about the millions of homosexuals who claim that they have ALWAYS been gay, even from childhood?

You mean humans claims are just to be percied to be true? BTW I haven't seen any statistics that self-claim ed homosexuals to be born gay.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

You mean humans claims are just to be percied to be true?

Well, as far as I know, humans are the only ones making the claims, so thats all we have to go on.

BTW I haven't seen any statistics that self-claim ed homosexuals to be born gay.

I know some people who claim to be gay as a result of sexual trauma, often at a young age. But of all the people I know who are gay because they just are, I don't know anyone who was straight on minute and gay the next. I personally have always been fairly aware of the people I found attractive and had crushes on, even from an early age. I don't think people go from straight to gay, I think you are either gay or not. So, you'd have to be born that way, nes pas?

 

[OD3]

Why do some christians here believe that praying to God can change your sexual orientation? If you are a male attracted to men, how on earth would you all of a sudden be attracted to females? Its ludicrous.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Indeed, if one is gay, isn't it fair to assume God made you that way? So why would he want to change you because you think it might suit you better?

Mysterious ways and all that.

 

[OD3]

Exactly.

Also someone mentioned earlier that gay people only become gay through puberty.

Rubbish.

My cousin was 4 years old when people started noticing he was a bit femanine. He was gay before he even knew what sex was.

 

[vossler]

Indeed, if one is gay, isn't it fair to assume God made you that way? So why would he want to change you because you think it might suit you better?

At a very early age I was very aware of my sexuality. I was into masturbation and then later pornography became a very large part of my life. I will never believe that because I had a natural inclination to be promiscuous and adulterous that God didn't want me to change and become the man I am today. This change was never about "suiting me better" but about suiting Him better.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Well, as far as I know, humans are the only ones making the claims, so thats all we have to go on.

Claims that are backed up by biblical principles or scientifc data are the only claims I take into consideration. Neither point to homosexuality as a genetic disorder or cause.

I know some people who claim to be gay as a result of sexual trauma, often at a young age. But of all the people I know who are gay because they just are, I don't know anyone who was straight on minute and gay the next. I personally have always been fairly aware of the people I found attractive and had crushes on, even from an early age. I don't think people go from straight to gay, I think you are either gay or not. So, you'd have to be born that way, nes pas?

The problem is that it might not be a sudden switch but a gradual process from a sexual trauma or sexual sin. In either case they should be helped to be restored to God's design.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Why do some christians here believe that praying to God can change your sexual orientation? If you are a male attracted to men, how on earth would you all of a sudden be attracted to females? Its ludicrous.

Maybe it's because you don't understand the actual stance Christains take on the issue? First of all, there is no sexual orientation, just sexual prefference. And secondly as I explained before, no one expects a sudden change but a gradual one through prayer and psychological help. Suddenly it's not so ludicrous anymore ey?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Claims that are backed up by biblical principles or scientifc data are the only claims I take into consideration. Neither point to homosexuality as a genetic disorder or cause.

OK, good for you. Um... so why are you in a discussion forum if blind faith is the only path for you? Also sort of curious how you feel about those bits of the Bible that apear to be incorrect, or about aspects of daily life that the Bible doesn't specifically deal with.

But hey, whatever works for you.

The problem is that it might not be a sudden switch but a gradual process from a sexual trauma or sexual sin. In either case they should be helped to be restored to God's design.

sexual sin? How do you mean that to be a causative factor? What about people who are gay long before they ever have a sexual encounter?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

there is no sexual orientation, just sexual prefference

tomato, tomAto

And secondly as I explained before, no one expects a sudden change but a gradual one through prayer and psychological help.

Do you know anyone who claims to have "turned"?

 

[ReformedChapin]

OK, good for you. Um... so why are you in a discussion forum if blind faith is the only path for you? Also sort of curious how you feel about those bits of the Bible that apear to be incorrect, or about aspects of daily life that the Bible doesn't specifically deal with.

But hey, whatever works for you.

Again, it seems you didn't read my post correctly. I said both scientific data and the bible.

hmm lets see, Am I going to listen to human falliabel teachings or the infinite wisdom of God? I personally haven't found anything in the bible that appears to be wrong.

sexual sin? How do you mean that to be a causative factor? What about people who are gay long before they ever have a sexual encounter?

Are you Christian? Read the bible, it will give you a good list of what sexual sin is. There is no objective evidence that they were gay long before a sexual encounter we have very little knowledge about how sexuality works.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Again, it seems you didn't read my post correctly. I said both scientific data and the bible.

I went back, sorry, I missed the scientific bit. But OK, so if you say you support science, how do you then dismiss in the next line that homosexuality can be genetic? There is evidence to support that it is.

I personally haven't found anything in the bible that appears to be wrong.

You take the OT literally?

Read the bible, it will give you a good list of what sexual sin is.

I can imagine what you will say qualifies as sexual sin, but I'm asking you how do people "become" gay without sexual sin. Specifically, why would someone choose to have homosexual encounters and never heterosexual ones, if they don't have a tendency towards homosexuality in the first place?

There is no objective evidence that they were gay long before a sexual encounter we have very little knowledge about how sexuality works.

Um... define objective? Little knowledge about how sexuality works... how much would you like? I would suggest we have more than "very little" anyway, at least enough to come up with some sound working theories

 

[vossler]

Do you know anyone who claims to have "turned"?

I do!

My best friend told me the story about his cousin who was gay. He was in his mid thirties and miserable because he didn't want to be gay. He had gone through many years of incredible turmoil and despair with no relief from the guilt. After telling me about the situation, never having met the man, I felt compelled to pray for him. For more than a year I prayed for him everyday. Then one day my best friend told me that his cousin was dating a woman. Within a couple of more weeks he was engaged and then married. That was approximately 4 years ago. He is today totally straight and happily married.

Praise the Lord.

 

[GenemZ]

I've been following your guy's post for a bit. It seems like both of you are getting a bit caustic and losing the focus.

No, we are not getting caustic and losing our focus. That is your desired goal by the way you resist what you are being told. But, I have seen this for too long to be bothered with being caustic and wasting anger in losing my focus. I see the pro-gay approach as a tactic and strategy to get those who oppose them to become caustic and to lose focus. Not here.

Genez, in argument it is highly important to back up all of your claims with evidence...that is worthy of being noticed. The ankerberg link is completely bias.

It always will be a matter of bias vs. bias. Will it not? Then when the LORD returns, those on the wrong side of bias will hit a wall of reality. Will they not?

The point is to show someone who was not only a homosexual, but also an addict.

No..... He just so happened to become an addict at some point. After all. He could not help it. He had addict genes thrown in the mix, as well. Do you blame him for being an addict? How could he help it?

This leads to the assumption that all homosexuals have addictive and amoral personalities.

That's your problem with reasoning. I have worked for, and with gays. What you just said makes no sense, and , as I see it, you are only seeking an angle to muddle the debate. Which happens when one wants the other side to become frustrated... (ending up becoming caustic and without focus.)

This is simply not so. I have known many homosexual who are regular members of the community. Who only stand out because they sleep with someone of the same sex instead of the opposite sex.

I know that is true. So? What's your point? Same thing can be said for witches. So?

But even this misses the entire point. It is not your place to judge them, nor is it mine. How about showing some tolerance and analyze your own life before you analyze other's.

I have watched behind the scenes the lives of lesbians and gays. It was work related. The type of work I was doing at the time attracted people from all walks of life. I was so not one to point my nose up at gays. I openly associated with some. Why? I wanted to really understand them better. All of them I got to know are Christian.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

I would like to say that I am surprised that you did not provide any evidence to back up your claims…but I really am not surprised at all.

Can't help it. Its in my DNA. Can't blame me for that, now can you?

I was this way since I was a little boy. I knew at an early age I had this way of doing things.

So, stop judging me. There are many people out there who refuse to provide evidence. It could be your neighbor. Could be the mailman. You just can not tell.

Have a nice Day, Genez

 

[GenemZ]

Why do some christians here believe that praying to God can change your sexual orientation? If you are a male attracted to men, how on earth would you all of a sudden be attracted to females? Its ludicrous.

Praying? What good is that? Praying is a request for something. Change requires POWER.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (New International Version)​

"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."​

Those who remain where they are , no matter what their sin may be, have failed to connect with the power of God. That power is called, "Grace."

The sure fire way to be cut off from grace is to walk in pride. Pride often times is the defiant defence one refuses to give up which was used as the means to protect self esteem before one was saved.

James 4:6 niv​

"But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."​

One has to admit. Those Christians who remain gay? They are very PROUD of what they are. Are they not?

Those who cling to their sin will even form churches as a means to comfort each other. They add to their pride by means of creating a sense of respectability by means of invoking the LORD's name in what they call worship.

Matthew 16:25 niv​

"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it." ​

They will not lose their salvation if they truly believed in Christ. But, they will lose every great reward that the Father has planned for all those who overcome in this lifetime.

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 (New International Version)​

"If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."​

Those who walk in a false concept of Scripture will be saved. But all the works they did while walking in the false will be as wood, hay, and stubble. BURNED UP in the evaluation of the believer. No rewards. Only his soul will be saved from Hell. Gay churches will be a barn fire. So will be the churches that say "God hates F_gs."
In Christ, Genez

 

[GenemZ]

Indeed, if one is gay, isn't it fair to assume God made you that way? So why would he want to change you because you think it might suit you better?

Mysterious ways and all that.

What some here fail to see? God made none of us the way we were when we were born. We have Adam to thank for how we were born.

Romans 5:12 niv​

"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."​

If we were all to be the way God made us to be? We would have all been like the humanity of Christ. Without any sin nature!

God did not make gays, gay. No more than he made those with claustrophobia, claustrophobic.

God made some to be artists. But, God did not make some to be gay artists. God made some to be world leaders. But, he did not make certain world leaders to be gay.

Trouble with the gay at birth argument is that those who promote it attribute it to God's desire as to how someone should be.

Luke 9:23 niv​

"Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me."​

God's desire is that all of us have a cross to bear. Something that we are helpless to overcome in our own strength. So, that when we overcome what ever it may be? God gets the glory. God's grace gets the credit. And, Satan is the one who is left helpless to do anything about it.

Grace and truth, GeneZ
​

 

[relspace]

So what about the millions of homosexuals who claim that they have ALWAYS been gay, even from childhood?

Well I hear from people who say that they are god. They are welcome to whatever belief they have about themselves or about anything for that matter, but I don't have to share those beliefs.

Indeed, if one is gay, isn't it fair to assume God made you that way? So why would he want to change you because you think it might suit you better?

Mysterious ways and all that.

No we are not just a creation of God, we play a critical role in deciding who and what we are. You cannot put all our desires and life choices on God. We are responsible for how we live.

There is mystery in freewill also.

tomato, tomAto

NO, big difference. Sexual "orientation" is who you are, while sexual "preferences" is about likes and dislikes - ergo about choices. I think the idea of "sexual preference" is a rather ugly thing for it makes people into just so many different kinds of meat. That said I disagree with the comment that their is only sexual preferences not sexual orientation, I just don't believe that choice plays no role at all, and really don't believe in prenatal determination.

Do you know anyone who claims to have "turned"?

Yep, see http://www.queerbychoice.com/ and read what these people have to say and you will find testimonies of a great many people who have changed back and forth because it is about love not uncontrollable biological urges.

 

[tiredwalker]

GeneZ,
I am resisting what I am being told because I am a smart, educated, and well-rounded person. When I hear non-sense, I call it such with out shame. This is not a "pro-gay" tactic, it is me acting in the way that Jesus told us (remember that whole don't judge thing).

I read the entire article, and as a person with a formal education in English literature who teaches high school English, I have the ability not only to read and comprehend the article, but also to analyze it (yes, caustic). It would actually be a perfect example for my freshmen, whom I spent a great deal of time teaching about unreliable resources on the internet.

I could spend all day arguing with you, but I'm not going to.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I went back, sorry, I missed the scientific bit. But OK, so if you say you support science, how do you then dismiss in the next line that homosexuality can be genetic? There is evidence to support that it is.

Show me.

You take the OT literally?

You mean historically? Well depends on what part you are talking about.

I can imagine what you will say qualifies as sexual sin, but I'm asking you how do people "become" gay without sexual sin. Specifically, why would someone choose to have homosexual encounters and never heterosexual ones, if they don't have a tendency towards homosexuality in the first place?

Uh, how do you know they did become gay without sexual sin? Not all choices are conscience ones, the human mind is extremely complex. Your basically stating by default it has to be genetics but there is noe evidence for it.

Um... define objective? Little knowledge about how sexuality works... how much would you like? I would suggest we have more than "very little" anyway, at least enough to come up with some sound working theories

Evidence proved by the scientific method.