Why are they gay?

[relspace]

This occurs very early in the childs life, perhaps even during pregnancy.

Any proof? Any objective reason at all for thinking this? I don't think so. I would call the idea laughable, if it were not so dangerous and repugnant in its implications for the treatment of children. No, I think it is a half baked idea with a purely political motivation.

Children are observed to be naturally drawn to members of their own sex and repelled by the opposite sex as a part of their asexual/antisexual orientation.

It is perfectly clear that the human mind play a rather large role in the processes of sexual attraction and sexual stimulation. It is also clear that sexual behavior and practice is highly habitual.

Therefore I think that all the evidence points towards adolescence being the most likely time where this is decided. Although there are likely other factors possibly from earlier in life that likely to play a role such as: the relationships with ones parents and other adults, the relationships with other children, and the first sexual experiences.

I know that there is the rather annoying side effect of this conclusion that some parents think, "where did we go wrong?" This thinking is clearly flawed for a number of reasons including the presumption that parents have that much control over what their children become. This has made it pragmatic to uphold the belief that the detemination of sexual preference comes much earlier in life. But frankly I do not think all the implications have been thought through even from the pragmatic point of view. The real objective is to get parents to accept that this is something that is ultimately outside of their control. Adolesence is time when parents have to start letting go and stop trying to control their children's lives.

 

[GenemZ]

Disproven??? Dont make me laugh!

Im not talking about personality traits, that only develops later in the childs life. Im talking about the fact that they might be prone to being homosexual. This occurs very early in the childs life, perhaps even during pregnancy.

So? Homosexuality is equivalent to being allergic to something? Its all biological? That everyone who has this gene defect will end up becoming homosexual?

Homosexuals vary in personality and physical structure.
Just like those who have a propensity to be attracted to Nazism can come from all walks of life.

But, just like Nazism, those who become homosexual are recruited by the invisible cosmic powers that rule this world.

Ephesians 6:12 niv
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
​

That is why God's Law was so fierce in condemning homosexual expression in the Law. So, those being tempted to follow along those lines would fear it and avoid it before it could become something they were comfortable with. Israel at the time of Jesus had no homosexual problem. It was the Gentile world run by Satan that was inundated with all forms of sexual promiscuity. Homosexuality, and bisexuality, were seen as unquestioned norms amongst the Gentiles. They had no sense of sexual immorality like we have today. In the cities of Corinth and Ephesis, the pagan temples offered even animals for sex in worship. Sex with children was also there. Homosexual expression in worship was also on the list.

That is why Paul comes across to some as being sexually uptight. Most people today do not know what he was bringing his congregations out of and into the Life in Christ. Peter does not get involved with such matters because the Jews already had a standard of morality ingrained into the Jewish culture. That is also why Jesus never made homosexuality an issue. For he was speaking to the Jews, not Gentiles.

When a nation folllows God's laws this nation is blessed with a vigor and vitality that nations without God's law lack. America has lost much of its vitality when it turned to the sexual revolution. That is why drugs became so popular in attempt to recapture the aliveness it lost through dissapation. Which only led to deeper dissapation...

So? When a nation becomes drained? And its moral resistence is low? Then those with a propensity for homosexuality feel freedom to fight back. Its America's heterosexual promiscuity that has allowed its homosexual element to have a voice. For if heterosexuality in America was yet strong morally, as it once had been? The homosexuals in the nation would not have a voice. They just would not have been heard.

The homosexuals best friend is a promiscuous heterosexual population. And, its also the reason why God destroys nations who no longer act as a represenative people of his standards.

2 Chronicles 7:14 niv
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
​

God created male and female in his image. Homosexuality is a perversion of God's image.

Yet? To the perverse? They will see what is right as being perverse. And, the perverse as being right.

Isaiah 5:20 niv
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
​

That is why one can not reason with the perverse. One can only refute them, and let those who can reason be strengthened against those who would drag us down with them if they could. Seduce us, so to speak, into seeing it their way. Making us fall asleep in the face of God's Word.

The first homosexuals were not men. They were fallen angels. Men only reflect the powers that be. The ones they have an affinity for. Homosexuality is a spiritual problem before all else. Its a mystery to many, for many are out of touch with the spiritual. God's Word is the doorway to the spiritual realm. God's Word gets attacked with false teachings for that reason.

Isaiah 5:20 niv
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."

Grace and truth, GeneZ
​

 

[ReformedChapin]

Number 4.

Promoting gay culture does not create more homosexuals. When society accepts homosexuals, the homos feel more comfortable in not hiding there sexual identity.

This is incorrect, opening the doors for behavior allows more people to comit that behavior. That's why we have laws and punishment to deter crime. Not only that but we have no clear understanding of what causes homosexuality, and if it isa social behavior and we make it acceptabel it will be more consistent in our culture.

 

[GenemZ]

Is that their fault, or is it a result of the modern gospel that is preached

eg "give your life to Christ and you'll have peace, love, joy and hapniess?"

I tend to think its the modern gospel, people end up trying Christ for all the wrong reasons

Freedom allows people to try things for the wrong reasons.

Paul preached a PERFECT Gospel message. Yet? Many rejected the reason to come to Christ, after they had come to Christ.

Philippians 3:17-19
"Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you. For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their emotions, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things."
​

Think about it. You heard the same Gospel as they did. Did you rebel against it like they did?

Once the Holy Spirit enters you, it then becomes a matter of the believer's soul and where the Spirit would lead. Many make their emotions their god, and grieve the Spirit in them. Its not the message's fault. Even if its distorted to some extent. Because the Spirit will lead us into all truth if we have a willing (humble) soul.

I was exposed to all the same false teaching that some others choose to follow. So have you to some extent. Did the teachings make us quit on God? Or, did the Spirit keep motivating us to seek what was needed until we found it? The problem with all those who rebel is not the message. Its their unwillingness to listen to the Spirit within. They make themselves their own god over what they are to think and do.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 (Amplified Bible)
"Do not quench (suppress or subdue) the [Holy] Spirit."



Ephesians 4:30 niv
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

​

In my early days I was exposed to many false teachings. The message is not the excuse. The unwillingness to suffer in patience as one seeks the truth, is the problem.

Many find a false teaching that appeals to their flesh. They then tell the Holy Spirit to SHUT UP! And, they make themselves at home with their own brand of Christianity. One that glorifies their flesh they wish to preserve.

2 Timothy 4:3 (New International Version)
"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

​

There are pastors out there who love telling the gays what their itching ears want to hear. Just as there are pastors out there who love telling spiritual bullies to hate gays.

Grace and peace, GeneZ
​

 

[HunterRose]

This isn't about criminal behavior, but about God's law and according to it, both are sins.
According to God it is a sin.
What's to understand, God said homosexuality was a sin. There's nothing abstract about that.

However there are any number of things God has declared to be sinful yet which modern Christians happily engage in:
Modern agriculture Lev. 19:19
Eating Pork Lev. 11:7
Contact with a woman during her period is a sin Lev. 20:18
Wearing gold or pearls I Tim 2:9
Dining on Shellfish Lev. 11:10-12
Women wearing pants Deut 22:5
Having a mortgage Deut 23:19
Wearing clothing made of different fabrics Lev. 19:19
Shaving Lev. 19:27
Wearing glasses when you attend Church Lev 21:20
Taking pride in accomplishments Prov 6:16-19


Why are you singling out only homosexuality when so many other sins are going on?

 

[HunterRose]

Therefore I think that all the evidence points towards adolescence being the most likely time where this is decided.

Can you share some of this “evidence” with the rest of us?

Although there are likely other factors possibly from earlier in life that likely to play a role such as: the relationships with ones parents and other adults,

Any proof?

the relationships with other children,

Any proof?

and the first sexual experiences.

Any proof?

 

[HunterRose]

So? Homosexuality is equivalent to being allergic to something? Its all biological? That everyone who has this gene defect will end up becoming homosexual?

Evidence that homosexuality is a “defect” please

Homosexuals vary in personality and physical structure.
Just like those who have a propensity to be attracted to Nazism can come from all walks of life.

The same can be said of heterosexuals. Does that mean it is appropriate to make the inflammatory comparison between heterosexuals and nazis?

But, just like Nazism, those who become homosexual are recruited by the invisible cosmic powers that rule this world.

Any evidence at all to support this?

That is why God's Law was so fierce in condemning homosexual expression in the Law. So, those being tempted to follow along those lines would fear it and avoid it before it could become something they were comfortable with.

Which is why Jesus talked about it so often…er…ooops…nevermind

Israel at the time of Jesus had no homosexual problem.

Which is why the old testament doesn’t’ bother mentioning anything….err…oops again

The homosexuals best friend is a promiscuous heterosexual population. And, its also the reason why God destroys nations who no longer act as a represenative people of his standards.

Which doesn’t explain why God didn’t destroy the Roman Empire until after it converted to Christianity.

God created male and female in his image. Homosexuality is a perversion of God's image.

But so then is celibacy. Btu that didn’t stop Paul form saying that it was a good thing Corinthians 7:9

​

That is why one can not reason with the perverse. One can only refute them, and let those who can reason be strengthened against those who would drag us down with them if they could. Seduce us, so to speak, into seeing it their way. Making us fall asleep in the face of God's Word.

You mean like standing up to those who are perverse enough to use God and the bible to justify their own personal prejudices?

The first homosexuals were not men. They were fallen angels.

Any evidence?

Homosexuality is a spiritual problem before all else.

Any evidence?

 

[HunterRose]

This is incorrect, opening the doors for behavior allows more people to comit that behavior. That's why we have laws and punishment to deter crime. Not only that but we have no clear understanding of what causes homosexuality, and if it isa social behavior and we make it acceptabel it will be more consistent in our culture.

But the best evidence is that homosexuality is not a behavior at all.

 

[relspace]

I asked for proof first.

Can you share some of this “evidence” with the rest of us?

I stated my evidence quite clearly already.

Children are observed to be naturally drawn to members of their own sex and repelled by the opposite sex as a part of their asexual/antisexual orientation.

It is perfectly clear that the human mind play a rather large role in the processes of sexual attraction and sexual stimulation. It is also clear that sexual behavior and practice is highly habitual.

Therefore, it is only natural to conclude that sexual orientation is something that is determined after the hormonal changes in adolesence which changes a person away from the childhood orientation towards sexuality. Likewise, the other facts suggest that a persons state of mind during adolesence plays an enormous role in that determination, and that once a pattern of sexual thought and behavior begins then it is likely to continue.

Now it is time to state your evidence for why we should believe that it occurs before birth? Since twin studies conclusively ruled out genetics as a cause, politically motivated people grasped at the even more unlikely idea of events in prenatal development.

http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html

Here is a collection of quotes by homosexuals that they made a choice.

http://www.queerbychoice.com/experiquotes.html

Here is a really good one:

[O]ne of my goals in the women's studies classroom was to convert someone to lesbianism in the course of the year—and I was always successful at this, just by talking about how sexuality is a construction and heterosexuality an institution and by simply posing the question, by asking my students: How do you identify yourself sexually? And if they would respond: I'm heterosexual, then I would ask: How do you know? How can you be so sure? thus provoking them to question their sexuality in certain fundamental ways. Result? Conversions right and left.

I think the simple truth is that most people wait for love to happen and welcome it in whatever form it comes in, when it does.

Any proof?
Any proof?
Any proof?

All these things that you demand proof for, were merely suggestions of possible contributing factors. Therefore all that is required to prove my statement is to find one homosexual who states these as contributing factors to why they became homosexual. My father worked as a social worker in Baltimore county and has mentioned many such cases to me, but without details that would violate confidentiality.

No, this proof is so easy to acquire that it is clear that you do not want it. Instead you must take issue with its significance. You should say, so what if a few homosexuals says that these are contributing factors, that does not mean that they determine sexual preference or that these are even contributing factors for the majoritiy of homosexuals. Now that is a valid arguments and a question that could be investigated.

 

[GenemZ]

Evidence that homosexuality is a “defect” please.

They are never given any Scriptural directives on how to live. Husbands and wives are freely spoken of. Even advice is offered to the celibate and the eunuch. But, gays? Nada.

The same can be said of heterosexuals. Does that mean it is appropriate to make the inflammatory comparison between heterosexuals and nazis?

Ever hear how Nazis expressed what they believed? They would speak matter of factly, and proudly, about what they believed ... which would repulse you totally. Yet? They would see no wrong in what they chose to believe. Just like pro gays see no wrong in what they choose to believe. That is why I chose them as an example. For you would be repulsed by your prejudice towards Nazis. See my point?

Any evidence at all to support this?

Yes.

Which is why Jesus talked about it so often…er…ooops…nevermind

Look ... I we are going to take what you just said as a standard to base this issue upon? If we are going to be consistent? Then Jesus condoned both bestiality and incest. Why? Because he never mentioned these sins either. Your point was?

Which is why the old testament doesn’t’ bother mentioning anything….err…oops again

It does mention it. To warn the Jews not to immitate the Gentile nation's practices.

Which doesn’t explain why God didn’t destroy the Roman Empire until after it converted to Christianity.

Only ten righteous in all of Sodom were needed to stem God's judgement of this depraved city. Only ten.

Rome was just having Christians popping up everywhere! If you study the period of the Antoinine Caesars, at the time Christianity was blooming and spreading out.... you will see the only period in Roman history when it was free from wars and the land experienced a great sense of prosperity. Historians have noted this era as a golden time to be alive in the ancient world. They just did not know why it was so.

Many righteous were to be found in the Roman Empire. This Sodom was spared while Christians remained faithful to God's plan. Later on, the faithful moved to other parts of the world. Those lands prospered as long as they remained faithful.

But so then is celibacy. Btu that didn’t stop Paul form saying that it was a good thing Corinthians 7:9
You mean like standing up to those who are perverse enough to use God and the bible to justify their own personal prejudices?

You have personal prejudices. Its evident in how you debate. Right?

Any evidence?

Yes.

Any evidence?

Of couse. I would not have said so if I did not.

Grace and truth, GeneZ

 

[HunterRose]

I asked for proof first.


I stated my evidence quite clearly already.

No…you made unsupported statements with your own conclusions attached to them…not evidence by any stretch of the definition.

Therefore, it is only natural to conclude that sexual orientation is something that is determined after the hormonal changes in adolesence which changes a person away from the childhood orientation towards sexuality.

Not natural to conclude that at all.

It may be expedient to what you want to believe…but expediencey does nto make something so.

To make the claims you are doing you would need to provide published peer reviewed studies showing a malleable sexual oriention in times of adolescence AND studies showing that environmental factors influence said malleable sexual orientation. Such studies do not exist.

Likewise, the other facts suggest that a persons state of mind during adolesence plays an enormous role in that determination, and that once a pattern of sexual thought and behavior begins then it is likely to continue.

And you have neither presented these “facts” or evidence to support the existence of these “facts”

Now it is time to state your evidence for why we should believe that it occurs before birth?

Shifting burden of proof does not in any way relieve you from your need to actually support your claims with evidence.

Since twin studies conclusively ruled out genetics as a cause,

Really?

When did it do this?

politically motivated people grasped at the even more unlikely idea of events in prenatal development.


http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html

First off NARTH is not an unbiased source.

You might try legitimate scientific journals for published and peer reviewed sources.

Here is a collection of quotes by homosexuals that they made a choice.

http://www.queerbychoice.com/experiquotes.html

I can provide an equal number of quotes from people who claim to have been abducted by UFO’s…does the fact that people make such statements constitute proof of UFO’s and alien abduction?

All these things that you demand proof for, were merely suggestions of possible contributing factors.

And the evidence that they actually are contributing factors? Well that doesn’t seem to exist either.

Therefore all that is required to prove my statement is to find one homosexual who states these as contributing factors to why they became homosexual. My father worked as a social worker in Baltimore county and has mentioned many such cases to me, but without details that would violate confidentiality.

and all I need to do is provide one person (and that person can even remain anonymous!) willing to claim to have been abducted by aliens…and that will constitute evidence of the existence of extra-terrestrials

No, this proof is so easy to acquire that it is clear that you do not want it.

If such proof is so easy to acquire…they why do you not provide it?.

Instead you must take issue with its significance.

Actually I take issue with the fact that hit does not actually exist.

You should say, so what if a few homosexuals says that these are contributing factors, that does not mean that they determine sexual preference or that these are even contributing factors for the majoritiy of homosexuals. Now that is a valid arguments and a question that could be investigated.

Investigations over fifty years have yet to provide any evidence that sexual oriention is a choice, is changeable, the result of some familial factor, the result of how one was raised…if you know of any legitimately published study supporting these then please share them with us all.

 

[HunterRose]

They are never given any Scriptural directives on how to live. Husbands and wives are freely spoken of. Even advice is offered to the celibate and the eunuch. But, gays? Nada.

None of which is evidence supporting your “defect” claim

Ever hear how Nazis expressed what they believed? They would speak matter of factly, and proudly, about what they believed ... which would repulse you totally. Yet? They would see no wrong in what they chose to believe. Just like pro gays see no wrong in what they choose to believe. That is why I chose them as an example. For you would be repulsed by your prejudice towards Nazis. See my point?

I see the point every time someone claiming to be christen details how hate and violence and discrimination against gays and lesbians is morally good.

Yes.

I would like to say that I am surprised that you did not provide any evidence to back up your claims…but I really am not surprised at all.

Look ... I we are going to take what you just said as a standard to base this issue upon? If we are going to be consistent? Then Jesus condoned both bestiality and incest. Why? Because he never mentioned these sins either. Your point was?

But you are the one who made the claim “God's Law was so fierce in condemning homosexual expression in the Law” yet the only place such condemnation takes place is in the same chapter that condemns the wearing of clothing made of mixed fabrics, shaving and is right next to the verse detailing murdering your disobedient child is morally OK.

It does mention it. To warn the Jews not to immitate the Gentile nation's practices.

So you admit your original claim: ”Israel at the time of Jesus had no homosexual problem.” Was false.

Only ten righteous in all of Sodom were needed to stem God's judgement of this depraved city. Only ten.

Which still does not explain why God didn’t destroy the Roman Empire until after it converted to Christianity.

Rome was just having Christians popping up everywhere! If you study the period of the Antoinine Caesars, at the time Christianity was blooming and spreading out.... you will see the only period in Roman history when it was free from wars and the land experienced a great sense of prosperity. Historians have noted this era as a golden time to be alive in the ancient world. They just did not know why it was so.

You might want to actually read the history of the Roman empire before making claims like this.

Your claim ignores the Visigoths, the Huns, The Goths under Fritigern, The Germans under Odoacer and many other wars and invasions.

Many righteous were to be found in the Roman Empire. This Sodom was spared while Christians remained faithful to God's plan. Later on, the faithful moved to other parts of the world. Those lands prospered as long as they remained faithful.

Which makes your earlier claim : “And, its also the reason why God destroys nations who no longer act as a represenative people of his standards.” Another false one.

Of couse. I would not have said so if I did not.

Grace and truth, GeneZ

Yet you never actually provide any evidence…again I would be shocked beyond words if you even made the attempt.

 

[GenemZ]

I see the point every time someone claiming to be christen details how hate and violence and discrimination against gays and lesbians is morally good.

I can see why you see it every time. For it was not there. You always project that into the mix yourself.

I would like to say that I am surprised that you did not provide any evidence to back up your claims…but I really am not surprised at all.

Try this link, please:

http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/practical-christianity/PC0804W3.htm

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[HunterRose]

[/font][/size]

I can see why you see it every time. For it was not there. You always project that into the mix yourself.

I wondered when you would once again resort to personal attacks…

Try this link, please:

http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/practical-christianity/PC0804W3.htm

that wsa god for a laugh.

i am amazed that this guy couldn't fit in a few more lies and myths in his "testamony" Recruited? Absent fathers and dominant mothers? Hated women? Over a thousand homosexual contacts?


As for evidence…well you have provided proof that people are willing to lie and people can delude themselves…but you still haven’t’ provided evidence to back up the many many claims you have made in this thread





And here is evidence that extraterrestrials routinely kidnap people, take them to their flying saucers and conduct medical experiments upon them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitley_Strieber

​

 

[GenemZ]

I wondered when you would once again resort to personal attacks…

What you claim was a personal attack, was said in response to what was a personal attack.

Here:

I see the point every time someone claiming to be christen details how hate and violence and discrimination against gays and lesbians is morally good.

that wsa god for a laugh.

That was his personal testimony.

i am amazed that this guy couldn't fit in a few more lies and myths in his "testamony" Recruited? Absent fathers and dominant mothers? Hated women? Over a thousand homosexual contacts?

He had no reason to lie. He knew he was dying. He died a short time after giving that testimony to AIDS.

He had been known for a few years by John Ankerberg, and gave other testimonies prior to becoming weakened by the AIDS. I saw that testimony you read originally on video back in the 80's when AIDS was becoming news. He even said that the gay community mocks his words because they refuse to accept Christ changed his life. You are mocking? Are you not?

As for evidence…well you have provided proof that people are willing to lie and people can delude themselves…but you still haven’t’ provided evidence to back up the many many claims you have made in this thread

The only evidence you would accept is if I were once gay and am now straight after Christ transformed me. I was not gay. But, I see even when someone was, he is discredited. So what evidence can be offered?

And here is evidence that extraterrestrials routinely kidnap people, take them to their flying saucers and conduct medical experiments upon them.

Yup.... they mock. He was correct.

Have a nice Day, GeneZ

 

[relspace]

I have been exploring more of this queer by choice site. I have found that their are homosexuals who are just as concerned as I am about the implications of this docrine that homosexuality is not a matter of choice.

And the only response the ReligiousTolerance.org site gives to its own argument is to suggest that instead of being genetic, there's always a chance that queerness could be caused by a virus, bacterium, or parasite. Ooh—now there's a liberating idea that'll make everybody glad to be gay. Well, that's why they call the site Religious Tolerance—because they think that queerness is a defect to be tolerated (and even that only as a last resort if they can first prove we "can't help it") instead of an achievement to be celebrated. The question now is this: Why are so many queer people agreeing with them?

This page expresses a lot of my concerns

Inherent in [the "we can't help it" response to homophobia] is the implication that if we could help it, we would. Even when that isn't what we mean, it's what a fair number of straight people hear, including some of our allies. It's easier for some of them to pity us as bearers of a genetic flaw than to respect us as equals. Not challenging them might gain us some votes, but in the long run it means that we're subtly putting the word out that it's O.K. to regard us as sexually defective. —Lindsy Van Gelder, "The 'Born That Way' Trap," Ms., Vol. 1 No. 6, May/June 1991 Secondly, validating homosexuality on the basis of biology practically invites the homophobes to assert that it is essentially a disease, an illness, an aberration of nature. "We're treating other genetic conditions," they might say, "why not homosexuality?" —Keith M. Ellis, posted on MSN Chatterbox, May 30, 2001

Another classically inauthentic mode is to say that one cannot help what one is. This reduces the individual to a person incapable of free choice or responsibility. People can tell their parents for instance that they are biologically homosexual ergo not responsible. This is fine to keep financial support flowing, but not as the basis of an authentic loving relationship. It has two other problems, one is that a typical response would be that one cannot choose one's sexual orientation, but one can refrain from engaging in sin. The other is especially deleterious to those who are not only attempting to deceive others, but themselves as well, namely that it virtually concedes that homoeroticism, or at least the practice of homosexuality, is bad in some way. This means that not only is the person who takes refuge in this flight from freedom bad, but it is an essential property of theirs that is bad. This can be psychologically devastating. —David M. Munsey, "The Love That Need Not Name its Speaker," The National Journal of Sexual Orientation Law, Vol. 2 No.1, 1996

But of course, people 'convert' from straight to gay all the time. Many people live seemingly comfortable heterosexual lives, then come to believe that their sexual identity is quite different. Perhaps we want to say that these people were gay 'all along'—but surely it would be churlish to assume that all their prior heterosexual attractions were insincere or false. Moreover, some people change orientation more than once. I don't understand the drive to dogmatically assert that sexual orientation is inevitably fixed from birth. —Daily Analyst, posted on MSN Chatterbox, May 30, 2001

Oh and this page was really cool tool:

Myth #1: We must be homophobic and ashamed of being queer.
Reality: Most of us are very happy about being queer—after all, we chose to be.

Myth #2: We must all have fantastically open-minded families who made it easy, joyous and pain-free to tell them we've turned gay.
Reality: Our parents seem to be about equally homophobic, on the average, as other parents are. And in a society as homophobic as ours, not many people who are looking for the "easiest" or most "pain-free" path are likely to choose a queer path, no matter how open-minded our individual families may be. But even though most of us don't find queerness to be the easiest path, we may still choose it because we feel it's the noblest path. Many of us feel that our choice was and is a deeply political and moral act of protest against having homophobic social norms imposed on us.
......
Myth #7: When we call our queerness a choice, that must mean we're really bisexual.
Reality: Some of us are certainly bisexual, but others of us will tell you that we are not attracted to the opposite sex in the least. Some of us may have experienced attraction to the opposite sex in the past and ceased to do so, but others of us state in no uncertain terms that we have never experienced the slightest attraction to the opposite sex in all our lives. What we all have in common, however, is that we feel that our attraction or non-attraction results from choices we have made and/or continue to make.
......

 

[tiredwalker]

[/FONT][/SIZE]

I can see why you see it every time. For it was not there. You always project that into the mix yourself.





Try this link, please:

http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/practical-christianity/PC0804W3.htm

In Christ, GeneZ
​

I've been following your guy's post for a bit. It seems like both of you are getting a bit caustic and losing the focus.

Genez, in argument it is highly important to back up all of your claims with evidence...that is worthy of being noticed. The ankerberg link is completely bias. The point is to show someone who was not only a homosexual, but also an addict. This leads to the assumption that all homosexuals have addictive and amoral personalities. This is simply not so. I have known many homosexual who are regular members of the community. Who only stand out because they sleep with someone of the same sex instead of the opposite sex.
But even this misses the entire point. It is not your place to judge them, nor is it mine. How about showing some tolerance and analyze your own life before you analyze other's.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Therefore, it is only natural to conclude that sexual orientation is something that is determined after the hormonal changes in adolesence which changes a person away from the childhood orientation towards sexuality.

So what about the millions of homosexuals who claim that they have ALWAYS been gay, even from childhood?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

1. They want to get attention
2. They are rebelling against their parents
3. They just want to engage in sinful behavior
4. It is not a choice, God made them gay
5. A combination of the first 3 choices.
6. Other

If they are gay, 4.

although occasionally one encounters people for whom the first 2 options either add impetus to their actions, but if they are willing to have sex with either gender of their own free will, they are naturally bisexual, rather than gay, and using the homosexual act for an agenda other than sex as well

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Many righteous were to be found in the Roman Empire. This Sodom was spared while Christians remained faithful to God's plan. Later on, the faithful moved to other parts of the world. Those lands prospered as long as they remained faithful.

Japan? China? India? Indonesia?