Why are they gay?

[Sam Gamgee]

You're no more of a sinner than I am. The only difference is you refuse to recognize your sin.
I've never stated or implied I was better than anyone. If you wish to apply innuendo and conjecture as to my feelings that's your right, but is that what Jesus did?

I recognize my sin. What I'm saying is that my sin is between me and God.... Period. And nobody has the right on this earth to discriminate against me because of my sin.

If you do not feel that you implied your superiority through your words, maybe you should thoughtfully consider changing your delivery. Because you're not winning any people over to Christianity with your message.

 

[vossler]

So, that justifies that you compare homosexuals with murderers because you love them equally?

From the standpoint that sin is sin, yes!

To me the comparison you made between homosexual and murderers is the most blunt, cruel and insensible comparison I have ever heard. Love isn't a crime, murder is.

Who said anything about love being a crime?

Going with your line of reasoning one could say I loved that child I had sex with and for you to state it is a sin to love makes you insensitive. I'm sure that's not what you are advocating.

It isn't only about love, you know. It is about respect and compassion as well. And I am sorry that I do not see the respect and the compassion towards Sam Gamgee in your words.....I do not even see love in them....

So are you asking me to respect the sin? If that's what you're looking for, I'm sorry you won't find that. However I do have compassion for sinners who acknowledge their sins, that's what Jesus did. He didn't show compassion to sinners who were prideful.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Who said anything about love being a crime?

Going with your line of reasoning one could say I loved that child I had sex with and for you to state it is a sin to love makes you insensitive. I'm sure that's not what you are advocating.

Again, apples and oranges.

Having sex with a child IS illegal. It is a crime. Plus, there is no consent from the child...

Homosexuality is between two consenting adults and it is not a crime. Therefore, it is love.

This further shows that you don't understand the nature of homosexuality. You see it as this abstract sin, and don't really understand it at all

 

[vossler]

I recognize my sin. What I'm saying is that my sin is between me and God.... Period. And nobody has the right on this earth to discriminate against me because of my sin.

So, let's presume I was single and having a sexual relationship with another single woman but I didn't believe it to be a sin to do so and went around telling people that because I love this person it is o.k. for me to have sex with her and that my sin is between me and God and none of your business. I'm guessing you would agree with that, am I right?

If you do not feel that you implied your superiority through your words, maybe you should thoughtfully consider changing your delivery. Because you're not winning any people over to Christianity with your message.

I don't suppose addressing sin will win many people.

 

[Shubunkin]

How can that be when we are all Christians here? This is a Christian only forum. You are treading a dangerous line here and could be accused of breaking forum rules.

Actually, I meant the entire Christian Forums... sorry, was not clear on that. My point to the thread was the second one.

Actually, accusing someone of breaking the rules is against the rules here.

 

[vossler]

Again, apples and oranges.

Having sex with a child IS illegal. It is a crime. Plus, there is no consent from the child...

This isn't about criminal behavior, but about God's law and according to it, both are sins.

Homosexuality is between two consenting adults and it is not a crime. Therefore, it is love.

According to God it is a sin.

This further shows that you don't understand the nature of homosexuality. You see it as this abstract sin, and don't really understand it at all

What's to understand, God said homosexuality was a sin. There's nothing abstract about that.

 

[relspace]

Actually, I meant the entire Christian Forums... sorry, was not clear on that. My point to the thread was the second one.

Actually, accusing someone of breaking the rules is against the rules here.

whew... that was close. Thanks for warning. Good thing I did not actually accuse you of anything but was only treading dangerously close to doing so, just as I thought you were. So when I said someone could accuse you of breaking the rules, then they couldn't actually do that without breaking the rules themselves. I see. Next time I think I will keep such a comment in a personal message only.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I recognize my sin. What I'm saying is that my sin is between me and God.... Period. And nobody has the right on this earth to discriminate against me because of my sin.

You have several times tried to defend it and even say it's not a sin, now it is?

If you do not feel that you implied your superiority through your words, maybe you should thoughtfully consider changing your delivery. Because you're not winning any people over to Christianity with your message.

Everyone is supposed to be saved here already. I actually didn't see anything that demonstrated pride in what he said.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

You have several times tried to defend it and even say it's not a sin, now it is?

Please provide a link to where I have ever said that homosexuality was not a sin.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Please provide a link to where I have ever said that homosexuality was not a sin.

You're seriously going to make me go back and look through every thread...btw why defend if it is a sin?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

This isn't about criminal behavior, but about God's law and according to it, both are sins.
According to God it is a sin.
What's to understand, God said homosexuality was a sin. There's nothing abstract about that.

Actually, this entire debate came about because we were talking about homosexuality as it relates to "society"

So, I'm talking about civil law, not God's law.

Maybe this is why we're having a disconnect. I'm talking from the civil arena and you're talking from the Bible.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Actually, this entire debate came about because we were talking about homosexuality as it relates to "society"

So, I'm talking about civil law, not God's law.

Maybe this is why we're having a disconnect. I'm talking from the civil arena and you're talking from the Bible.

So we should let people sin even if it's a direct transgression against God?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

So we should let people sin even if it's a direct transgression against God?

Yes, because not all people are Christians like you and me.

There are plenty of gay athiests, gay buddhists, and gay agnostics out there...

And they deserve the right to a civil union, to adopt, to serve in the military, to benefit from social security, to have health care through their beloved, to be able to visit their beloved in the hospital... and so on...

America is not a theocracy. We must respect those people out there who are NOT Christians and who want equal protection under civil law.

 

[JonathonD]

If they are made with gay attractions, then thats the way God wanted them to be I guess. Unless somone wants to debate against me.
But I'd say #4.
Some don't want to be Gay but they just are.

And I want to get more repect for Gays, since I am a homophobic.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Yes, because not all people are Christians like you and me.

There are plenty of gay athiests, gay buddhists, and gay agnostics out there...

And they deserve the right to a civil union, to adopt, to serve in the military, to benefit from social security, to have health care through their beloved, to be able to visit their beloved in the hospital... and so on...

America is not a theocracy. We must respect those people out there who are NOT Christians and who want equal protection under civil law.

Again, I don't see the logic behind letting people purposefully sin. The more openly you leave it, the more you will do it. Not to mention the more sin that will get into the church.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

If they are made with gay attractions, then thats the way God wanted them to be I guess. Unless somone wants to debate against me.
But I'd say #4.
Some don't want to be Gay but they just are.

And I want to get more repect for Gays, since I am a homophobic.

[Yoda Voice] My respect you have, young Jonathan.. [/Yoda voice]

 

[JonathonD]

And if they are Gay what can they do about it? They just can't stop being attracted to men.
(Thats sends me shivers)
Unless there is a way. Then this world would make me happier.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Again, I don't see the logic behind letting people purposefully sin. The more openly you leave it, the more you will do it. Not to mention the more sin that will get into the church.

Why are you afraid of sin entering the church? Do you think that people who run the church, or sit in the pews, are without sin?

 

[ReformedChapin]

If they are made with gay attractions, then thats the way God wanted them to be I guess. Unless somone wants to debate against me.
But I'd say #4.
Some don't want to be Gay but they just are.

And I want to get more repect for Gays, since I am a homophobic.

I'm getting tired of of reapting myself...God didn't make them that way. If you think he did please provide scriptural support. thanks.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Why are you afraid of sin entering the church? Do you think that people who run the church, or sit in the pews, are without sin?

That's not being afraid of it, that's just using common sense.