Why are they gay?

[Sam Gamgee]

Could you not love a child that just lied to you or even committed murder? Of course you could, they've sinned yet you don't love the sin but the person. It's no different in this case.

are you actually comparing the way I love someone to the act of murder?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Pecisely what I was trying to say, Sam. The fact that I do not agree with your lifestyle, and consider homosexuality to be a sin (and I am required by my faith to hate all sin), does not mean I cannot love YOU, the person. The two things, the act and the person, are completely separate. I do things myself that I hate sometimes. Even Paul said, 'The things I hate, I do.'

Whatever gets you to sleep at night and makes you feel enlightened.

On that note, I've decided to hate all football player's sin. Every Sunday, they touch pig's flesh on national television... And I've decided that although I love the people who play professional football, I'm going to hate their behavior.

And it's perfectly ok because it says so in Leviticus.

They could choose not to touch pig's flesh... But, instead they choose to do it over and over again, right in front of the CHILDREN'S INNOCENT EYES!!!!!

God will judge them for their sins.







(hey, if y'all can compare homosexuality to rediculous things like murder and alcoholism, I can compare homosexuality to rediculous things too... see how easy it is to use the Bible to support your own ignorance?)

 

[tulc]

On that note, I've decided to hate all football player's sin. Every Sunday, they touch pig's flesh on national television... And I've decided that although I love the people who play professional football, I'm going to hate their behavior.

...and if only they practiced their "life choice" during the week! But I've seen them on the SABBATH touching the "old pigskin" on the day of rest!! Lifting and carrying things. They even teach our CHILDREN to "play" the "game"!
tulc(pouring the first cup of the day)

 

[vossler]

are you actually comparing the way I love someone to the act of murder?

If there is a comparison that I can make it is just that I'm to love you no matter what your sin, isn't that what Jesus did?

 

[belladonic-haze]

If there is a comparison that I can make it is just that I'm to love you no matter what your sin, isn't that what Jesus did?

So, that justifies that you compare homosexuals with murderers because you love them equally?

To me the comparison you made between homosexual and murderers is the most blunt, cruel and insensible comparison I have ever heard. Love isn't a crime, murder is.

It isn't only about love, you know. It is about respect and compassion as well. And I am sorry that I do not see the respect and the compassion towards Sam Gamgee in your words.....I do not even see love in them....

But maybe I am blind and doesn't see it, who knows.

 

[Mling]

One of my favorite arguments:

I love you because God loves you. Nothing I do is hateful if I say that I love you enough times. God and I love everybody, even murderers and child molesters and dirty pervs like you. Isn't that gracious and loving of us?

 

[OD3]

One of my favorite arguments:
God and I love everybody, even murderers and child molesters and dirty pervs like you. Isn't that gracious and loving of us?

LOL! are you being serious?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

If there is a comparison that I can make it is just that I'm to love you no matter what your sin, isn't that what Jesus did?

Yes, that's exactly what Jesus did. But, here's where you and Jesus part ways:

Your "love" comes with an air of superiority. Your delivery of Jesus's word comes with a clear display of your superiority over me because I'm such a sinner.

And Jesus never acted superior over the sinners

The mere fact that you feel that you are better than me because of the way you love is very clear in your writing. THAT'S where you and Jesus differ.

 

[Mling]

....ummm...not sure how to answer that. I was sarcastically imitating the tone of people I....strongly do not agree with. So, I'm serious in the sense that that is how they sound, to me. Not, in the sense that I certainly do not think that.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

....ummm...not sure how to answer that. I was sarcastically imitating the tone of people I....strongly do not agree with. So, I'm serious in the sense that that is how they sound, to me. Not, in the sense that I certainly do not think that.

in other words, you were being sarcastic

 

[Mling]

I wasn't sure what part of the statement he was asking about.

If he was asking, "Are you serious? You really think that?" Then, no. I was being sarcastic.

If he was asking, "Are you serious? You really think that is what they're saying?" Then, yes, I am serious.

I don't know him well enough (read: at all) to know where he'd be coming from.

 

[relspace]

But it seems to me that hate is part of Christianity, cause oh oh how we hate the sin.......

No hate is not a part of Christianity, it is part of being human. Sins are habitual behaviors that destroy our potential, destroy our life and destroy our free will. All religions warn against sin and steer us away from sin. To hate sin is a natural defensive reaction. It may not be rational but it can be helpful.

PS: Alcoholism is a disease and you can with will power overcome the need to drink...but you will be an alcoholic all your life. Alcohol destroys families because the hate is growing so fast in these families that they stop loving each other.

All sin is just the same as this. Lying can become habitual and it can destroy your life too. The same for stealing, adultery, murder, and disrespect. And there are others which like alcohol are not even in the 10 commandments like gambling and drugs. We have tended to think of sin as things which offends God or does harm to others but what really makes them sin is the fact that they are all ultimately self-destructive.

Homosexuality is part of who you are. It cannot be cured, nor should people want it to be cured. Falling in love with someone is not exactly something you plan.

Every choice you make and every activity you do is part of who you are, both sin and religion. Atheists often think of Christianity and religion, the same way that we think of sin and alcoholism as habitual and self-destructive. They think of Christianity as destroying our objectivity and making us stupid and dependent on delusions. We can view atheism in this same way. To the Christian it is atheism which is the sin and to the atheist it is religion.

Therefore what is sin can definitely be a matter of belief. Perhaps there are things that all people can agree are sins, like drug abuse, in that they are obviously habitual and self-destructive. But others are not obvious, and so we disagree. The discovery of truth is as subjective and as personal as our relationship with God. We must all be free to pursue these both as best we can.

It is the consensus of secular society that there is nothing obviously self-destructive about homosexuality. And secularism is indispensible in a multicultural society for it keeps the peace and protects the freedom of all to pursue truth and God, each in our own way. Therefore, Christianity, atheism and homosexuality must all be respected as choices which people are free to make no matter how we may disagree with them personally.

And if you hear the homophobic reaction on gay people, why the heck do they want to stay gay...it is not exactly a respected lifestyle.

Nonsense. You could say the same of Christianity in the first few centuries. People will stand up for what they believe in, especially when it is a matter of love. I can respect homosexuality as a choice on this basis, but cannot respect homosexuality when they say they have no choice, for then it begin to sound like a disease to me. You can believe what want of course but force this belief that "homosexuals have no choice" on me and my respect for you is vaporized.

It would be so easier to then be just heterosexual. Gay people are just that...gay. Just respect that and get on with your own little heterosexual lives.

What you don't seem to get is that there are some people who find this whole idea of sexual preference objectionable. I will defend your right to believe that some people are homosexual and some are heterosexual, BUT I WILL NOT SHARE YOUR BELIEF. I personally find this belief disgusting, but your beliefs are yours to choose, and the freedom of belief is worth defending.

 

[belladonic-haze]

Yet you judge and call homosexuality the same as rape, murder and so on. And you talk of freedom of choice and so on? That baffles me. It is just a pillow to soften the blow from your harsh words and make yourself look not so narrow minded.

 

[tulc]

Part of the problem is "love the sinner, hate the sin" to often comes across as "HATE THE SIN!!!!, somewhat stand the sinner."
tulc(see the difference?)

 

[belladonic-haze]

Part of the problem is "love the sinner, hate the sin" to often comes across as "HATE THE SIN!!!!, somewhat stand the sinner."
tulc(see the difference?)

LOL.....Yep, there is a difference...but what is the sin in this case? Love?

 

[relspace]

Yet you judge and call homosexuality the same as rape, murder and so on. And you talk of freedom of choice and so on? That baffles me. It is just a pillow to soften the blow from your harsh words and make yourself look not so narrow minded.

Who are you talking to? All the people you call heterosexual are the same is that it? I have made no such comparison. I have compared homosexuality with Christianity. I was expecting more sass from a different crowd.

 

[Shubunkin]

I can see here that Christians are criticized more heavily than anyone here. That is a stronger hatred of all. I'm just stating it as I see it.

What God thinks in these matters, is of far more importance. If we are just the messengers, you are not getting very far with your hatred of us.

 

[relspace]

I can see here that Christians are criticized more heavily than anyone here. That is a stronger hatred of all. I'm just stating it as I see it.

What God thinks in these matters, is of far more importance. If we are just the messengers, you are not getting very far with your hatred of us.

How can that be when we are all Christians here? This is a Christian only forum. You are treading a dangerous line here and could be accused of breaking forum rules.

 

[vossler]

Yes, that's exactly what Jesus did. But, here's where you and Jesus part ways:

Your "love" comes with an air of superiority. Your delivery of Jesus's word comes with a clear display of your superiority over me because I'm such a sinner.

You're no more of a sinner than I am. The only difference is you refuse to recognize your sin.

The mere fact that you feel that you are better than me because of the way you love is very clear in your writing. THAT'S where you and Jesus differ.

I've never stated or implied I was better than anyone. If you wish to apply innuendo and conjecture as to my feelings that's your right, but is that what Jesus did?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

LOL.....Yep, there is a difference...but what is the sin in this case? Love?

The Bible clearly states that the physical act of homosexuality is a sin.

Love is the byproduct. (This is where homosexuality differs from alcoholism and muder... the former creates family and love... the latter destroy family and love).

That being said, that act of homosexuality is but one sin mentioned in the Bible... It just so happens to be the sin that we all seem to be focusing on in the ethics and morality forum.

And I firmly believe that this sin will go the way of the other sins like touching pigskin and wearing clothes of different fabric and working on the sabbath and such.

It's just a matter of time... maybe 100 years... and people (including Christians) will look back on these years and hold their heads in their hands and say "How could we have persecuted these people in the name of God?"