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Why are they gay?

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EnemyPartyII

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Actually God never mentions it.

Of course, if the 11th Commandment was, "Thou Shalt not be Gay," or the Gospel according to X 1:1 was "And yea, Jesus said to those gathered there, 'I tell you solemnly, there is no worse sin than being gay'", you could say God tells us. But that isn't what happened at all. All you have are some pre-interpreted ideas of what the Bible MIGHT be saying, depending on the translation, edition, and bias of your pastor.

Finally, why won't you debate the issue? if you truly believe you are correct, its hard to understand why debating the point seems disturbing to you?
 
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Netopalis

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Yeah, but there are those of us who understand that the Bible was written by semi nomadic desert dwellers 5000 years ago, and that modern population, social, and technological pressures require a degree of relative contemporary interpretation.

Or are you honestly going to tell me you never wear clothes of mixed fibres?

I do use mixed fibers, as the book of James says that there are certain parts of the old law that we no longer worry about. Paul supports this idea. God doesn't change, people do. Because of that, why should His laws change? I believe that the Bible is just as relevant now as it ever was. If you DON'T believe in the Bible, then how do you find salvation? What basis do you have for belief? Do you simply pick and choose which parts of it to believe?
 
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EnemyPartyII

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I do use mixed fibers, as the book of James says that there are certain parts of the old law that we no longer worry about.

Great. So, lets disregard all the parts about homosexuality being abomination, and then we can all be happy, right?

If you DON'T believe in the Bible, then how do you find salvation?

I believe in parts of the Bible that make sense. I don;'t believe that the Bible is meant to be static and unchanging, or else we wouldn't have James saying it was OK to disregard bits, right? God is the living word, right? So, if He's living word, doesn't it seem likely that He is changeable and flexible? Or at the very least, relevant to differing conditions?
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Rom. 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean in itself;=being Gay is OK... there you go.

There are LOTS of activities that the Bible doesn't specifically mention being OK, so why single out Gays?

Please tell me what I have said that you take such offenc to, because offending you really hasn't been my intention. I thought I was being pretty upfront and honest is all...
 
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EnemyPartyII

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just in case you missed it in the other thread:

Quote:
why are you so mad and angry at people?
Because I am homosexual and I get frustrated and upset by people who willfully misrepresent me and people like me without any attempt at trying to understand us short of what they think some old book says, as if that were justification enough.
 
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Rom. 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean in itself;=being Gay is OK... there you go.

There are LOTS of activities that the Bible doesn't specifically mention being OK, so why single out Gays?

Please tell me what I have said that you take such offenc to, because offending you really hasn't been my intention. I thought I was being pretty upfront and honest is all...
Exactly. Some christians still think that dancing and rock music is evil. Its just which parts of the bible you choose to take seriously, as its impossible to take it all literally and seriously.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Its just which parts of the bible you choose to take seriously, as its impossible to take it all literally and seriously.

See, I wouldn't even go that far... you can take it all SERIOUSLY, just not all LITERALLY, quite a bit works very well as metaphore, but when actually applied to day to day life, fails.

Basically, I follow the SPIRIT of te Bible, rather than following it in word for word literalism.
 
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Netopalis

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In response to EnemyParty's earlier response to me - James is rather specific about which certain parts of the Bible are no longer in use. Second, the admonition against homosexuality is continued in the New Testament. The Bible is God's word - all of it - and therefore it is up to us to treat it as such.
 
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vossler

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See, I wouldn't even go that far... you can take it all SERIOUSLY, just not all LITERALLY, quite a bit works very well as metaphore, but when actually applied to day to day life, fails.

Basically, I follow the SPIRIT of te Bible, rather than following it in word for word literalism.
What parts can't you apply to day to day life?
 
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EnemyPartyII

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The Bible is God's word - all of it - and therefore it is up to us to treat it as such.

Even the bits that contradict the other bits? Or the bits that are just plain wrong?

James is rather specific about which certain parts of the Bible are no longer in use.

He says specifically that wearing mixed fibres is OK?

Second, the admonition against homosexuality is continued in the New Testament.

It is? Well that, again, depends on the version you use and your interpretation of the relevant passages. There is no clear cut "homosexuality is BAD", or we wouldn't be having this discussion
 
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EnemyPartyII

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What parts can't you apply to day to day life?

Slave owning, polygamy, killing unbelievers, taking unbelievers property by force, not working and expecting God to take care of you as he does the flowers of the fields or the birds of the air, stoning adulterers, having priests treat your leprosy or mouldy curtains... lots of stuff

genetically engineering sheep by casting shadows on them, casting mountains into the sea...
 
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Netopalis

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On the first point, yes, the whole Bible is true. Contradictions can be explained when we take a look at the verse in context of the rest of the chapter.

On the second point, my apologies, the book I was looking for was Galatians. Here is the quote:
Galatians 3:24-26 Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith. 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 3:26 For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith.


In regards to the third point, there are clear-cut admonitions against homosexuality in 1 Corinthians 6, 1 Timothy 1 and Acts 15.
 
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GenemZ

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<edit>...

That's why you say your peace, and move on after it begins repeating itself. We are not obligated to such thinking to continue.

For, to do so would drag you down. When one refuses to be raised up? To continue, is to allow yourself to be dragged down. For they want you to be able to see what they do, eye to eye, as they see it.

Keep your eyes on what is above. Noah must have had to face many a mockery as he kept building the Ark on dry ground with no water in sight. Must have heard many reasons for being a fool not to join them in how they saw things.

It did not stop God. It did not stop his plan. What will be, will be. Heaven and the Lake of Fire are realities. Some play games in hope that God has changed his mind. Some think because they approve of themselves (self righteous) that God must feel the same way about them, too. What will be, will be.

That goes for all of us. Not just for the obvious ones that make us feel we are doing right in comparison. For the obvious ones reveal to us what we need to check in ourselves. Not that we are right about all, and they are wrong. As we see them being blind, we are being blind in another way. Judge not. If we do. We too will be judged. Fear for yourself. Not them.

Romans 2:1 niv
"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do similar things."
God brings such things our way to expose our own stubborn blindness. God will deal with the other one. We must learn to deal with ourself. As that person is blind about refusing to give up what is obviously wrong to us? We, too, have our areas where we are refusing to give up what is wrong before God.

When such a one who is blatant and undeniably wrong about something comes our way? It should not make us feel we are doing right before God. We should pray that God shows us what it is we are denying before Him that he wants to stop having power in our thinking.

One of the tricks of the Devil is one of having us compare relative wrongness. When we see someone who is very wrong before God, that God must see us as being OK before Him in comparison. Not so. We are either on the right path, or on one of many multiple ways one can be wrong. The way to destruction is "broad and wide."

Such examples of obvious stubborn blindness are brought our way in various forms. Its not simply so we know the Word that involves such things. Its because God is showing us something also about ourself. Not to become self confident in how we approve of ourself.

Philippians 2:12 niv
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed&#8212;not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence&#8212;continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling."


Isaiah 55:8 niv
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD."
God brings before us those who are obvious and blatantly living in denial, so we can begin to check ourselves as to where we may do the same in our own way in the light of God's Word.

Until we mature in Christ (if we are ever to mature) we must keep this in mind as we move forward. If we do not, the other's relative greater wrongness will make us feel that we are acceptable to God when we are not.

Grace and peace, GeneZ​



 
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EnemyPartyII

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On the first point, yes, the whole Bible is true. Contradictions can be explained when we take a look at the verse in context of the rest of the chapter.

No. There are clear contradictions that even context doesnt explain away. Sure, a lot of them are minor niggly little things, but they are still there, and if there is even 1 mistake, you can't call t 100% true.

Galatians 3:24-26 Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith. 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 3:26 For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith.

Thanks for the quote. So... it doesn't specifically mention which bits of OT law are OK to disregard? So, who gets to decide? Why disregard the kosher butchery laws but not the homosexual ones?

In regards to the third point, there are clear-cut admonitions against homosexuality in 1 Corinthians 6, 1 Timothy 1 and Acts 15.

Again, depends on the version you are reading, the translation, your interpretation of the verse, and the slant of your Bible scholar.

I say again, there is NO passage where Jesus says "gay is bad, OK?", nor any other passage that gives a clear, rational basis for considering that homosexuality is "wrong".
 
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HisBelovedMelody

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That's why you say your peace, and move on after it begins repeating itself. We are not obligated to such thinking to continue.

For, to do so would drag you down. When one refuses to be raised up? To continue, is to allow yourself to be dragged down. For they want you to be able to see what they do, eye to eye, as they see it.

Keep your eyes on what is above. Noah must have had to face many a mockery as he kept building the Ark on dry ground with no water in sight. Must have heard many reasons for being a fool not to join them in how they saw things.

It did not stop God. It did not stop his plan. What will be, will be. Heaven and the Lake of Fire are realities. Some play games in hope that God has changed his mind. Some think because they approve of themselves (self righteous) that God must feel the same way about them, too. What will be, will be.

That goes for all of us. Not just for the obvious ones that make us feel we are doing right in comparison. For the obvious ones reveal to us what we need to check in ourselves. Not that we are right about all, and they are wrong. As we see them being blind, we are being blind in another way. Judge not. If we do. We too will be judged. Fear for yourself. Not them.

Romans 2:1 niv

"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do similar things."
God brings such things our way to expose our own stubborn blindness. God will deal with the other one. We must learn to deal with ourself. As that person is blind about refusing to give up what is obviously wrong to us? We, too, have our areas where we are refusing to give up what is wrong before God.

When such a one who is blatant and undeniably wrong about something comes our way? It should not make us feel we are doing right before God. We should pray that God shows us what it is we are denying before Him that he wants to stop having power in our thinking.

One of the tricks of the Devil is one of having us compare relative wrongness. When we see someone who is very wrong before God, that God must see us as being OK before Him in comparison. Not so. We are either on the right path, or on one of many multiple ways one can be wrong. The way to destruction is "broad and wide."

Such examples of obvious stubborn blindness are brought our way in various forms. Its not simply so we know the Word that involves such things. Its because God is showing us something also about ourself. Not to become self confident in how we approve of ourself.

Philippians 2:12 niv

"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed&#8212;not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence&#8212;continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling."



Isaiah 55:8 niv

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD."

God brings before us those who are obvious and blatantly living in denial, so we can begin to check ourselves as to where we may do the same in our own way in the light of God's Word.

Until we mature in Christ (if we are ever to mature) we must keep this in mind as we move forward. If we do not, the other's relative greater wrongness will make us feel that we are acceptable to God when we are not.

Grace and peace, GeneZ​



hence why I won't comment on any more of her posts.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Judahspraise, well I certainly wasn't trying to be demeaning, I want to be friendly and constructive. Doesn't that sound better than just putting people on ignore because their opinion differs from your own?

Its just that looks like what you are doing. Please, tell me what rules you consider fair in a discussion, and I'll do my Christian best to stickto them...
 
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HisBelovedMelody

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I Corinthians 6:9&#8211; "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders"

WHAT is so difficult to understand about this? It is hard to debate when I take the Word seriously, and you say it isn't relevant. I am NOT going to change my mind that it is a SIN....yes among others...BUT this IS about being GAY..that is the thread...not about fibers and all the other nonsense that has been spewed. SO, YES< being gay IS a sin and destable to God and they WON'T get into heaven until they repent. GOD takes it VERY seriously and NO matter how much you want it your way..God said what He meant and meant what He said. I take that VERY seriously.
 
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GenemZ

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why is it bothering you that I chose to ignore your immaturity. You just showed it again...look everyone..she is picking on poor me.

2 Timothy 3:4b-5 (New American Standard Bible)
"lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. "
There comes a time when 'the season to reason' comes to an end.

Galatians 1:10 niv
"Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ."
Grace and truth, GeneZ​

 
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stumpjumper

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MOD HAT ON

Thread has been cleaned up and re-opened. Please observe forum rules and post with peace and respect for fellow posters who are also your brothers and sisters in Christ.

[BIBLE]1 Corinthians 13:12-13[/BIBLE]
 
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