Why are there still apes?

[AV1611VET]

So you can imagine a scenario?

Yup.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Wouldn't that constitute a mini bottleneck?

"Hey! We're lost! We've been cut off by a natural disaster, and there are predators all around us!

Quick! Let's start procreating!"

So of all the bottlenecks in human evolution, you think the idea that a couple of apes might wander off into the grassland is too big of a leap of faith? But once they get over that hurdle, and get out into the grassland, OK, then they evolved into humans?

Apes are naturally curious. If there is food in them thar hills, somebody is going to run out there and try to get it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Think instead of the apes expanding into a new territory.

Again ... why would they do that?

ESPECIALLY if they have to change their posture to a more laborious one, just to keep from getting eaten?

 

[Sparagmos]

Again ... why would they do that?

ESPECIALLY if they have to change their posture to a more laborious one, just to keep from getting eaten?

Perhaps their food source was drying up in their original home. Perhaps another group of apes had taken the territory. Perhaps there was a natural disaster that destroyed the environment. All of this stuff is common sense.

Why do you think the animals left the area around the garden of eden? How did they disperse after the flood?

 

[AV1611VET]

Apes are naturally curious. If there is food in them thar hills, somebody is going to run out there and try to get it.

At the risk of sounding repetitive, that's like saying:

"Okay, kids! We're moving out of our comfort zone! That new restaurant a thousand miles away has cuisine that is just out of this jungle! You have to stand and eat it, since there are no chairs, but it's worth moving there for life!"

"Oh. And kids? Stay inside the restaurant! The locals will tear you apart to get to their own food."

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps their food source was drying up in their original home. Perhaps another group of apes had taken the territory. Perhaps there was a natural disaster that destroyed the environment. All of this stuff is common sense.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Why do you think the animals left the area around the garden of eden?

Because they were kicked out?

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

How did they disperse after the flood?

Teleportation.

Much like Philip in Acts 8.

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

 

[driewerf]

Again ... why would they do that?

ESPECIALLY if they have to change their posture to a more laborious one, just to keep from getting eaten?

From the way you are phrasing this, you seem to think that these apes made a to-do list before migrating, and that it seems too big an effort for you.
But that's not how it works. They migrated, got offspring and it turned out that a change in the pelvis etc gave some advantage over others.

 

[AV1611VET]

From the way you are phrasing this, you seem to think that these apes made a to-do list before migrating, and that it seems too big an effort for you.

Either that or, after moving into this new area for a time, got tired of having to stand to stay alive, and came back.

But that's not how it works. They migrated, got offspring and it turned out that a change in the pelvis etc gave some advantage over others.

Only on paper.

 

[driewerf]

From the way you are phrasing this, you seem to think that these apes made a to-do list before migrating, and that it seems too big an effort for you.

Either that or, after moving into this new area for a time, got tired of having to stand to stay alive, and came back.

Well you are wrong about that.

They migrated, got offspring and it turned out that a change in the pelvis etc gave some advantage over others.

Only on paper.

Why would that be "only on paper"?
What prevents these apes to have offspring?
What prevents this offspring to have mutations?
What prevents some of these mutations to be beneficial in this new environment?

 

[AV1611VET]

Well you are wrong about that.

Why would that be "only on paper"?
What prevents these apes to have offspring?
What prevents this offspring to have mutations?
What prevents some of these mutations to be beneficial in this new environment?

I'll tell you what, driewerf.

Instead of repeating myself over and over, just test your theory yourself.

Employ your whiz-bang scientific method (which, of course, you won't).

Take everyone on Guam, put them at the North Pole, surrounded by hungry polar bears, make sure they have enough food to survive for as long as they want, but make them have to stand most of the time, and see if they're even in the mood to procreate.

Don't just give me a verbally photo-shopped line of bologna in an OP and expect me to buy into it.

Science can take a hike.

 

[driewerf]

I'll tell you what, driewerf.

Instead of repeating myself over and over, just test your theory yourself.

Employ your whiz-bang scientific method (which, of course, you won't).

Take everyone on Guam, put them at the North Pole, surrounded by hungry polar bears, make sure they have enough food to survive for as long as they want, but make them have to stand most of the time, and see if they're even in the mood to procreate.

Don't just give me a verbally photo-shopped line of bologna in an OP and expect me to buy into it.

Science can take a hike.

• Massive deportation is against the Declaration of Human Rights, which I hold in very high esteem
• Massive deportation is probably against the American Constitution, which you hold (probably) in very high esteem
• It goes against my character (and professional training) to put voluntarily people in potentially hazardous situations

So we encounter already some practical and ethical problems for doing what you suggest.
But rest assured, answering the questions I asked you is not repeating yourself. So, please kindly answer the questions asked. I will be so helpful as to post them again:
Why would that be "only on paper"?
What prevents these apes to have offspring?
What prevents this offspring to have mutations?
What prevents some of these mutations to be beneficial in this new environment?

kind regards,
driewerf

 

[Tone]

They did not have fire and animal skins to keep them warm at nights, so they needed their hair.

Why would they use fire and animal skins before their hair fell off?

 

[Tone]

And wouldn't these erect brainiacs be intelligent enough to go back and liberate their stooped dum dum brethren?

And why have the jungle dwelling humans not reverted back to monkeys?

Wait, why would they need so much fur in a sweltering jungle anyways and are we talking apes or monkeys here?

 

[AV1611VET]

1. Why would that be "only on paper"?
2. What prevents these apes to have offspring?
3. What prevents this offspring to have mutations?
4. What prevents some of these mutations to be beneficial in this new environment?

I hope you don't mind me enumerating your questions for ease of answering.

1. Because it sounds like a narration to me. Assuming facts not in evidence. It may as well have started out: "Once upon a time, a rift valley opened up in Africa ..."

2. With respect to the OP as it was written ... that is, assuming it really happened as made up ... I would say the biggest prevention to having offspring would be that their new environment stifled their libidos.

3. Time. (Deep time is a requirement for macroevolution; and deep time is something the Bible does not allow for.)

4. See above.

The OP assumes these "invaders" lived happily ever after, and had generations upon generations of offspring; whereas I'm saying these "invaders" either went back home, got eaten, or carved CROATOAN on a post and disappeared into history.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Why would they use fire and animal skins before their hair fell off?

Fire gave protection from predators. That probably came first.

Using animal skins for blankets could have come simultaneously with losing their hair. The more hair they lost, the more practical it became to cover themselves with animal skins at night to stay warm.

 

[AV1611VET]

Fire gave protection from predators. That probably came first.

Using animal skins for blankets could have come simultaneously with losing their hair. The more hair they lost, the more practical it became to cover themselves with animal skins at night to stay warm.

Fill them gaps in!

 

[Tone]

Fire gave protection from predators. That probably came first.

Using animal skins for blankets could have come simultaneously with losing their hair. The more hair they lost, the more practical it became to cover themselves with animal skins at night to stay warm.

This would require the PoE itself to be conscious.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Because it sounds like a narration to me. Assuming facts not in evidence. It may as well have started out: "Once upon a time, a rift valley opened up in Africa ..."

Actually there is evidence every step of the way. The opening post was meant to be a summary of what happened, not a detailed documentation of all the evidence.

 

[Tone]

Fill them gaps in!

Literally...

 

[Tone]

Actually there is evidence every step of the way. The opening post was meant to be a summary of what happened, not a detailed documentation of all the evidence.

Ahhhh, sounds like passages of the Bible.