Why are there so many luke warm Christians on this forum?

[Svt4Him]

i think that most christians are lukewarm. they may not neccessarily support homosexuality or sex outside marriage, but really they are not on fire with the holy ghost for jesus.

This does not make a Christian lukewarm. Lukewarm is an idiom, it means neither hot nor cold, as cold is good for some things, while hot is good for others. Hot and cold are equally good, it's when one is not either, then their purpose isn't clear. Neither hot nor cold gets spit out of God's mouth, only lukewarm. So someone may have bad doctrine, and be clear in purpose. Maybe you don't know that purpose, maybe you do, although I am unclear as to the purpose of accusing others of being lukewarm.

Don't try and say anything about sin or Judgement

And I have found those who like to preach about sin or judgment don't really understand what it's about either. What is sin? It's transgression of the law. What is the law for? For the unrighteous, not for the righteous. My sins are in remission, they are blown away. Do I continue to sin so I can show grace? No, but that doesn't detract from the fact grace is there. For a Christian, sin is gone. Now the question is what is a Christian?

 

[Andry]

I am not holy i am not righteous, I am a sinner like everyone else.

P_I_T

That's part of your problem right there. Read your Bible. It's not what you think, believe, or feel about yourself. It's about what God says about you. And what you just said is not what God says about you.

Humility is believing and accepting what God says you are, not what you think you are. If you are a Christian, are you not a new creature in Christ? Who says you are a sinner after Christ? Weren't you made righteous?

So your comeback will be a bunch of theology...blah blah blah. But you don't realize what's key:

Belief is not a result of changed behaviour. But changed behaviour is a result of what you believe. Because if you change what you believe, you’ll change how you behave. You need to change what you believe.

But if you're not willing to change what you believe, then you're stuck. So if you continue to believe that which is contrary to the word of God, ie..."I am not holy I am not righteous, I am a sinner like everyone else..." then your behaviour won't change. Sorry. I'm just telling it like it is.

 

[JesusServant]

Why are there so many luke warm Chrsitians on this forum?

It's a ratio thing. If 10% of self proclaimed christians in the world are on fire for God then 10% of the members here will follow that ratio as well.

Not that 10% is accurate, just throwing an example out there.

 

[crystalpc]

If Christians compromise one sin! thats enough for them to be classed as luke warm!! they do not fully believe the bible as Gods word.

If there was a poll thread if sex before marriage is a sin? I'm willing to bet money that there would be many Christians will compromise and say that it's okay in a loving relationship.

The acceptance of one sin opens the door to others!! to justify their sin! This is dangerous. Gods love is much better than sin. people are being deceived!!!!

I have to agree with you on this. If we do not judge ourselves we are going to be judged. That judgment is final.
However I find many good Christians here too, and enjoy coming in to the fellowship areas of the forum, since the other areas make me feel as if I have been in a battle and need rest.
"We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities"

 

[n2wolves]

Hi preacher_in_training,
One thing to remember is that this is not just a place for strong, "on-fire for the Lord" believers to get together and have fun. This is an outreach and a place to help others grow.
Also, because this is internet based, you are going to get a very widespread gathering of people from all around the world, from every culture and religion.
The people you mention are in need of spiritual help. Take care not to run them off because you may be the only one around to help them. Speak the truth... but speak the truth in love. Hey, and who knows.... you may even learn something also! I know I have!
We do have "Christian-Only" and "Everyone" areas. If we are in the "Everyone" area and we find we cannot stand any more "heathenism" , then we just run back over here in the Christian only area to catch our breath.
Peace
Your brother
Didaskalos
Senior Moderator

AMEN

 

[uncle david]

I hate all this horse fesces about sons of God still being sinners like the rest of the world!!!! I hate it so much, its a lie straight from the devil's mouth,and if you buy into it you are basically giving El Shadday the finger. we are made the righteousness of God through Christ jesus! paul said in 2nd corinthians "i have wronged no man" he was made righteous and holy through the blood of jesus christ! dont give me this bull that we have to sin "cause were only human" and that purgatory or somethin' will make holy after we die! NO!!!!! we are made holy now! we never have to sin another day in our lives! EVER! and dont go and give me this theology junk! a man is demon possesed and they go arguing why he is or where it is when the guy needs deliverance now! its a lie!!!! the devil has no power! we are holy( at least I am,by the blood of Jesus) like he is holy!

 

[AmeriLovesJesus]

Jesus is my everything... He saved me from all the mess I was living in!

One of my best friends is gay.. and pagan.. I love him very much..I wont stop hanging out with him.. because I believe the love I share with him.. maybe one day he will see.. it.. and see where I have gotten the courage to share this uncondtional love..

God is Love!!! Jesus loves us all!!!..

I just dont get it how you could judge people of how they are... as Christians!

This is what leads people away from Christianity... They grow their own ways.. and then there are people who talk about them.. and then they begin to feel that... they arent good enough anyway...

I have loved God all my life.. I may have not been close to him as I am now.. but I can truely tell you almost everything I have ever went through in my life... I would always.. say the God must have a plan.. or God is trying to tell me something...

Im sorry I have to go!!! May ways are not perfect here on earth... I may slip and fall... but I know.. in Gods eyes.. I am amazing to him..

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

If Christians compromise one sin! thats enough for them to be classed as luke warm!! they do not fully believe the bible as Gods word.

If there was a poll thread if sex before marriage is a sin? I'm willing to bet money that there would be many Christians will compromise and say that it's okay in a loving relationship.

The acceptance of one sin opens the door to others!! to justify their sin! This is dangerous. Gods love is much better than sin. people are being deceived!!!!

I agree with you somewhat preacher, yet you must acknowledge that not all are in the same place of their walk as you are. There are a lot of people who are not yet part of a body of believers where they are learning to live righteously. Then of course they end up on a Christian Forum where there is a lot of "individuality" and they still don't get the proper training.

One of the things I've learned from being here at CF is to be available. Instead of criticizing people you don't know, hang around them more and maybe apply some of your godly insight to things. Even if they dissagree with you, you have given them the Word and the Bible promises that His Word will not return void.

I have found the only way to get close to people though is by loving on them. Not patting them on the back and telling them their sin is ok, but assuring them they are loved by God and gently guiding them in or at the least toward the direction they should be going.

I can promise you that you will not necessarily see their transformation right before your eyes but you can be assured that "God is faithful to finish what He has started in them". He is the "author and the finisher of their faith". While you get to help by proclaiming the truth, it is the Holy Spirit who does the correction.

 

[crystalpc]

I hate all this horse fesces about sons of God still being sinners like the rest of the world!!!! I hate it so much, its a lie straight from the devil's mouth,and if you buy into it you are basically giving El Shadday the finger. we are made the righteousness of God through Christ jesus! paul said in 2nd corinthians "i have wronged no man" he was made righteous and holy through the blood of jesus christ! dont give me this bull that we have to sin "cause were only human" and that purgatory or somethin' will make holy after we die! NO!!!!! we are made holy now! we never have to sin another day in our lives! EVER! and dont go and give me this theology junk! a man is demon possesed and they go arguing why he is or where it is when the guy needs deliverance now! its a lie!!!! the devil has no power! we are holy( at least I am,by the blood of Jesus) like he is holy!

Uncle David,
The Lord caught me on this one time. He reminded me that Jesus is holy, I was a sinner, and I am saved by grace. Since that salvation I became a partaker in Jesus righteousness. And to say that I am unrighteous, is to say that Jesus was not enough. To say that he was not enough, denegrates his blood and all he did for us. Whereby we return to useless sacrifices of lambs and goats? No he was more than enough!

 

[preacher_in_training]

Andry, uncle david. Yeah... I did a mistake. God paid a big price for us to be holy and righteous, it is not by our own works but through Jesus that we are saved.

Quaffer, Good words maybe i have been a little too insensitive, instead of condemning people I'll try and be understanding. It just bothers me to see many believers think it's OK to twist scripture. And I've seen posters on this thread post the truth nicely, trying to help them. But they scoff, and it goes in one ear and out the other. It's like they want to willfully ignore the truth and make others fall. I still don't understand why they they do that, when they know the truth. I don't hate them or anything, it just makes me sad and angry. Anyway, maybe i should keep out of those areas.


God bless

 

[Kelly]

I try to keep my mind and heart open to the problems others face here in their faith, I know that I am now without my own personal temptations and sins that I struggle with daily. I don't accept their sin but I am not going to shun them or judge them. How can I judge their homosexuality if I flip channels later than night and have a lustful thought of some woman on a commercial? Sin is Sin.

As far as lukewarm, etc. I think that one can stand back and look at various posts and glean something out of everyone's opinion. We can look the fruits of their actions and statements.

My only beef is the sheer amount of people who only post in the News and GA areas (what I call 'the frontlines'). I get really tired of having every thing I say disected by others. I really enjoy the refuge of the Christian Only areas sometimes. Let's not ruin these areas by pointing judging fingers (Not saying you were P_i_T)

 

[Svt4Him]

"Judge not lest you be judged. You therefore have no right to judge me when it comes to my sins!"

The world often takes this verse out of context and uses it to accuse Christians of being "judgmental" when they speak of sin. In the context of the verse Jesus is telling His disciples not to judge one another, something the Bible condemns (Romans 14:10; James 4:11). In Luke 6:41,42 He speaks of seeing a speck in a brother’s eye. In John 7:24 He said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." If someone steals, lies, commits adultery or murder, etc., the Christian can make a (righteous) moral judgment and say that the actions were morally wrong, and that these sins will have eternal consequences. Chuck Colson said, "True tolerance is not a total lack of judgment. It’s knowing what should be tolerated—and refusing to tolerate that which shouldn’t."

Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger."
So the Bible shows. God is angry with the wicked [Psalm 7:11], not with the abstract sin. If the wicked turn not, God will whet His sword—He has bent His bow and made it ready—not to shoot at the sin, but the sinner—the wicked man who has done the abominable thing. This is the only doctrine of either the Bible or of common sense on this subject"

Used with permission.

 

[kiwimac]

Isn't it interesting how Jesus' message of radical acceptance, as shown by his life, by the folk he chose as his disciples is defined by some Christians as a message of rules, a message of legalism and bondage?

Kiwimac

 

[joevberry3]

"Judge not lest you be judged. You therefore have no right to judge me when it comes to my sins!"

The world often takes this verse out of context and uses it to accuse Christians of being "judgmental" when they speak of sin. In the context of the verse Jesus is telling His disciples not to judge one another, something the Bible condemns (Romans 14:10; James 4:11). In Luke 6:41,42 He speaks of seeing a speck in a brother’s eye. In John 7:24 He said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." If someone steals, lies, commits adultery or murder, etc., the Christian can make a (righteous) moral judgment and say that the actions were morally wrong, and that these sins will have eternal consequences. Chuck Colson said, "True tolerance is not a total lack of judgment. It’s knowing what should be tolerated—and refusing to tolerate that which shouldn’t."

Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger."
So the Bible shows. God is angry with the wicked [Psalm 7:11], not with the abstract sin. If the wicked turn not, God will whet His sword—He has bent His bow and made it ready—not to shoot at the sin, but the sinner—the wicked man who has done the abominable thing. This is the only doctrine of either the Bible or of common sense on this subject"

Used with permission.

Great Post Svt! Thanks for stating that fact!

Joe

 

[Svt4Him]

Isn't it interesting how Jesus' message of radical acceptance, as shown by his life, by the folk he chose as his disciples is defined by some Christians as a message of rules, a message of legalism and bondage?

Kiwimac

Maybe you could address specifics. Like what kind of acceptance did Jesus show to the rich young ruler? When Jesus said "Go, and sin no more" did He mean the "sin no more" part or did He just like talking? When He said "Follow me" did He mean He'd be everywhere people were, following them? Radical acceptance what shown to how many people when he was with a group of around 512 after His resurrection? These are specific questioins.

That said, the law is the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, and is perfect to convert the soul. It has no power to change, but must be used to show change is needed.

So if something in my post above was not 'radically accepting' enough, maybe refute it by showing me where it's wrong, not making a generalization with no support.

 

[crystalpc]

I have noticed this among younger "Christians" including my own son. Who feels no guilt in prejudicial behavior, or swearing bitterly in Gods name. Those who usually complain of legalism and bondage, have pet sins they don't want to, or refuse to repent of. That is rebellion, and rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Scripture says in the last days men will not abide sound doctrine, but will flock to those who will tickle their ears.
The new-age religion says I'm ok your ok. God says no one is ok, but a work in progress. Yes we sin as chrisitians it is part of our growth process, a true christian is uncomfortable with their sins. If that is "legalistic", it is what the bible teaches. If we are true children God will chastise us, but if not he won't. Chastise means to correct, not punish. The Holy Ghost is spread abroad in our hearts to teach us, how to please our father. We do have Jesus righteousness as a gift, however, we also have a truth that the way of the sinner is hard.

 

[mle]

This really is a great thread with many interesting posts.

I must confesss that I too was surprised at Christian people's beliefs that stray from the word of God. Especially, in the sex before marriage poll. I read there that many people suggested sex before marriage is okay as long as it is with only one person.

I am far from being guiltless in this respect. I was pregnant when I got married but as we turned our lives around through commitment to Jesus the sins keep falling away. I have seen Jesus at work in our lives. We love him more, the sin falls away as we listen to the Holy spirits conviction in our hearts.

Whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth. It hurts at the time but I want more correction and more love.

I was reminded of this verse as I read through the posts:

Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all [men]. I Thessalonians 5:14

 

[Andrew]

Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense.

Then why did he come not to condemn man but to save man? Let's face it we were all terrible sinners -- all of us broke every law -- b4 we were saved. So if God hated us then, why did he bother to save us by sacrificing his Son?

Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Finally, did the father hate the prodigal son at any time he was away living in sin?

 

[Andrew]

That said, the law is the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, and is perfect to convert the soul. It has no power to change, but must be used to show change is needed.

I hope you mean changing from sinner to Christian, and not using the Law today to guide or improve the Christian's behaviour.

Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

To preach the Law to "improve Christian holiness" is to minister death to the Christian.

 

[crystalpc]

Then why did he come not to condemn man but to save man? Let's face it we were all terrible sinners -- all of us broke every law -- b4 we were saved. So if God hated us then, why did he bother to save us by sacrificing his Son?

Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Finally, did the father hate the prodigal son at any time he was away living in sin?

Listen, we love our children. We may not be proud of them, and we may try and correct their actions but we love them.
When they are grown and out of our control, we let them go. At times they hurt us beyond imagination. At other times we would rather have nothing to do with them "tough love". Yet our hearts yearn for them. They have free will. We don't approve of their lifestyles, and pray that they get saved, but in the end it is their free will.