Why are there so many different Bibles?

GodLovesCats

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Are they really telling blatant lies? Or are they trying to translate a language that does not tie directly to English with words that have multiple meanings and therefore their translation could actually be the correct one (I think it unlikely, given how many other translations use the term premature).

If one version calls it a miscarriage and others call it a live birth, they can't both be true. A miscarriage in this scenario means the premature baby was born dead. The NIV covers both, but other versions pick one or the other, usually alive. Whenever opposites are used in the same verse - alive in one and miscarriage in another, in this example - it is presented as some versions describing the wrong result of an attack.

If Exodus 22:21 was written only one way, it would be clear whether a "premature" baby is living or dead during expulsion from the woman's body. My guess is the baby was born alive and the fine is for childcare payments.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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If one version calls it a miscarriage and others call it a live birth, they can't both be true. A miscarriage in this scenario means the premature baby was born dead. The NIV covers both, but other versions pick one or the other, usually alive. Whenever opposites are used in the same verse - alive in one and miscarriage in another, in this example - it is presented as some versions describing the wrong result of an attack.

If Exodus 22:21 was written only one way, it would be clear whether a "premature" baby is living or dead during expulsion from the woman's body. My guess is the baby was born alive and the fine is for childcare payments.
Exodus was written only one way, using a language that does not translate directly (it does not seem as though you read my quote from the NET translation notes).

Take for instance the word used for miscarriage, or premature birth or birth - it is just one word meaning to give birth (using some educated guesses here, else there would be no arguments). Since it just means birth it is the context of the word that determines its translation.

But the context here is a little ambiguous - someone may have died, but does the non-death refer to the baby or the mother? Some refer to the baby not dying, i.e. not a miscarriage, while others think it refers to the mother not dying, which by implication means the baby did die - hence the use of 'miscarriage'.

You have picked the NIV, but many translators have issues with some of the choices it makes elsewhere.

Not to mention the differences between the Masoretic and Septuaigint.

A good translation will go for the best/most likely wording and include notes somewhere if there are vast discrepancies. In reality, NIV's dynamic equivalence translation philosophy certainly does not qualify it for 'the only' English translation, but I think you would be hard pushed to find any one single English translation that would do the job - most have a translation philosophy whether to render into plain English (GNB, God's Word); poetic (KJV); literal (NASB, NRSV); gender inclusive (NRSV, some versions of NIV); theological (ESV, New World); Dynamic equivalence (NIV, NET); paraphrased (Message, Living Bible, Passion Bible) and so on.

The only true way to have 'one translation' is to do it yourself... i.e. learn Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek and then translate the Bible to your satisfaction. In all likelihood you will find however that other people are not going to get on board with your version.

Like I said before if you want one Bible, get the NET with translation notes and you will see both what they have chosen as the word and where the differences of opinion are.

Despite using NET for the last 6 years, I've never had an issue with following along with other people's translations - perhaps because the actual discrepancies are few and far between.
 
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The Liturgist

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Continued from post #32:

New International Version
If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.

Opponents are physically attacking each other and both hit the woman.
A baby is born alive. The woman and/or baby may have a minor injury.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
And if two men strive and smite a woman with child, and her child be born imperfectly formed, he shall be forced to pay a penalty: as the woman's husband may lay upon him, he shall pay with a valuation.

Huh? Where did "imperfectly formed" come from? Why isn't the exact penalty (court-ordered amount that the husband demanded) in it at all? This is both adding to and subtracting from the original English Bibles and, as you can see, modern English versions corrected these errors.

But not all Bibles correctly state the result of a child's expulsion . . .

Contemporary English Version
Suppose a pregnant woman suffers a miscarriage as the result of an injury caused by someone who is fighting. If she isn't badly hurt, the one who injured her must pay whatever fine her husband demands and the judges approve.

Good News Translation
If some men are fighting and hurt a pregnant woman so that she loses her child, but she is not injured in any other way, the one who hurt her is to be fined whatever amount the woman's husband demands, subject to the approval of the judges.

Why are these new Bible versions popping up that tell blatant lies about the result of an attack during her pregnancy? This is not making the Bible easier to understand. In fact, it is the devil at work, calling a live, perfectly formed baby dead or malformed. I see disagreements on whether the woman suffered an injury or not too. If God wants His Word to be clearly understood, it must be consistent. That can't happen if we have a lot of different Bible versions printed.

The Brenton translation is of the Septuagint, which is the ancient Greek translation, predating our Lord by 200-300 years, which was independently translated by seventy Jews in isolation to ensure accuracy, and then later expanded, as the deuterocanonical books such as Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, the books of the Maccabees, Judith and so on were either composed, or survive only in Greek (and in some cases, in Ge’ez, the language of the Ethiopian Jews, and of the majority who became Christians along with the King in tje early fourth century, a decade after Edessa and Armenia converted, and a few years after the Roman Empire converted, roughly about the time St. Nino, an Armenian princess, converted the Georgians to Christ).

The Septuagint is the preferred translation in the Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Georgian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Albanian, Ukrainian, Czech, Slovak, Finnish, Polish, Macedonian, Montenegrin, Cypriot, Antiochian (and more generally, Arabic) Estonian, Latvian, Alexandrian, Alaskan/Aleutian, Russian, Serbian, Japanese, and Carpatho-Ruysn Orthodox Churches) and the Coptic Orthodox and Armenian Orthodox Churches because it is believed to be more accurate in many respects than the Masoretic, specifically preserving a number of Christological readings in the Old Testament which are absent in the Masoretic Text (the MT has one Christological reading that the Septuagint lacks, in Psalm 1). Some texts are also clearer, for example, Psalm 95:5 in the Septuagint, which corresponds to Psalm 96:5 in the Masoretic, reads “The gods of the Gentiles are demons,” which makes more sense and is more impactful than the somewhat obvious Masoretic “The gods of the gentiles are idols.”

The Vulgate was translated from the Hebrew and Aramaic texts, where available, by St. Jerome, and preserves a pre-Masoretic Hebrew reading. It uses a Septuagint Psalter, however, for reasons of liturgical utility. The Douay Rheims is a translation of the Vulgate translation, just as the Brenton translates the Septuagint, and there are several translations of the Peshitta into English. This is another answer to your initial question - these indirect translations are invaluable for scholars who do not speak all of the ancient Biblical languages or all of the languages into which important translations were made (Classical Syriac, for example, while an Aramaic dialect, is very different from Biblical Aramaic or the modern vernacular Syriac dialects spoken by the persecuted Christians in Iraq, Syria, Turkey, and Israel-Palestine).

Many of the Dead Sea Scrolls support the Septuagint, interestingly enough.
 
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The Liturgist

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Why all the versions? Theologians need something to do other than writing commentaries.

Have you heard the saying “A theologian is one who prays, and one who prays is a theologian?” The Eastern Orthodox recognize only three: John the Beloved Disciple, Gregory of Nazianzus, a fourth century bishop who played a vital role through his writings in preserving the doctrine of the Trinity, particularly the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, against the Arians, who denied Jesus was God incarnate, the Pneumatomacchians, who denied that the Holy Spirit was also God, a divine person of the Trinity coequal to God the Father and the only begotten Son and Word of God, Christ our savior, and against the Apollinarians, who denied that Jesus Christ had a human soul, but rather argued that he was animated by the Word, which is a grave error because the apostolic Christian faith declares Jesus Christ to be fully God and fully Man, without change, confusion or separation. And lastly, they recognize Symeon the New Theologian, a 12th century monk who focused on practicing and documenting the unceasing prayer of the heart which had previously been observed by the Desert Fathers, and later, the monks at St. Catharine’s Monastery in Sinai and Mar Sabbas Monastery in Judea. But they go on to say that anyone who has experiential knowledge of God is a theologian, not just the three they formally acknowledge, and argue that a small child or an intellectually disabled man could be a theologian.

I am really attracted to this concept, because the word theology means knowledge of God, and in the case of a great many theologians, one is left wondering how such people could know anything about God, no matter how well versed they are in the different aspects of theological study, which include pastoral care, preaching, church history, Patristics, the study of cults and heresies, the study of worship and of liturgical worship (my favorite area), dogmatic theology, systemic theology, and the study and interpretation of scripture. When ministers such as myself get our degree, it is usually an MDiv, a Masters in Divinity, and there is also a DDiv mainly used for people who want to teach in the seminary, and theologians get a DTh, but since Middle English gave way to Modern English in the 15th century, a period of time lasting through the 19th century or even the early 20th century when Theologians were called Divines, not to suggest they were deities, but rather that they had studied divine things. Even today, there is an important group of high church Anglican theologians from the early 17th century known as the Caroline Divines. Another good alternative to the word theologian would be scholar of divinity (or perhaps scholar of theology). I would feel more comfortable if we used some of that terminology, but to avoid confusion I still say theologian, even in regards to professors of religions other than Christianity who by definition have rejected knowledge of the true God.

Also, not wishing to be pedantic, but the scriptures are translated by scholars in the ancient languages they are being translated from; chiefly Hebrew, “Biblical Aramaic” and Koine Greek, but also other languages such as Syriac Aramaic, Coptic (the Christianized version of Demotic Egyptian, a distant descendant of the language of the Pharaohs, with important scriptural and historical texts existing in both the Bohairic and extinct Sahidic dialects), Ge’ez (the Semitic language of ancient Ethiopia, which has developed into Amharic, the vernacular language of most Ethiopians; several important scriptural texts were found intact only in Ge’ez, in the Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Bible manuscripts containing the Broad Canon of Old Testament writings), Classical Armenian, and of course Latin, which is widely known and understood even today; a number of Syriac manuscripts from the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Antiochian Orthodox Church, the Indian Orthodox Church, and the Church of the East, and the Maronites were translated into Latin and donated to the Vatican by members of the Assemani family of Maronite Catholics, over several generations, and given the relative lack of people knowledgeable in the Syriac language, and the fact that some of the original manuscripts have been ... misplaced, these Latin translations provide an easy way to access these texts.

I do apologize for this long and detailed reply to a simple joke on your part, but I sensed a frustration with some people who call themselves theologians, which I also share. As an evangelical, Ancient-Future, liturgical and traditional Congregationalist minister who once had the misfortune of being with the United Church of Christ (formerly the Congregational Church) as it departed more and more from the apostolic faith and the scriptural teachings of our Lord and His apostles regarding the sanctity of life and sexual morality, I am deeply frustrated by a number of so-called theologians who have enabled the decline of what was a great church, intimately involved in the history of the US and Britain, intimately involved in the abolition of slavery, the promotion of missionary campaigns around the world, and also, in Britain especially, at the largest Congregational church, The King’s Weigh House, beautiful liturgical worship, using a prayer book entitled Devotional Services composed by Rev. John Hunter in the late Victorian and Edwardian era, which is structurally similar to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, but features incredibly beautiful language, more poetic I think than the BCP, as prized as the Anglican liturgy is.

But what most Congregational parishes used to stand for, they now reject, due to the influence of liberation theology, womanist theology, liberal theology, and other modern movements which disregard both the Bible and the ancient traditions of Christianity. There are only a few traditional Congregational churches left, including one in Boston, the Park Street Church, the last of the 18th century churches in Boston that follows the traditional values of our denomination, and has not converted to the United Church of Christ (or to Unitarianism; in the 1780s there erupted a schism and many Congregational churches rejected Christianity and became Unitarian, including what was then our main seminary, the Harvard Divinity School, whose recent leaders have been at the forefront of promoting false Gnostic texts like the “Gospel of Judas” as somehow representing the Historical Jesus. Indeed, the president of Harvard Divinity School was so keen to acquire more texts of this sort, that she was defrauded by a conman who created a very good, but discernable, forgery, of a Secret Gospel of Mark.

The United Church of Christ is also the fastest shrinking denomination in the US, outpacing the Episcopal Church when it comes to losing members. People want traditional, scriptural, evangelical churches, and millenials increasingly favor traditional hymns, church music and liturgical worship, which suits me; I may be Gen X but I love liturgy and the study of it.

As evangelists, we do have one theologian to thank, I think, and that is Rev. John Wesley, the Anglican priest who with his brother Charles Wesley, who wrote some of the most beautiful Protestant hymns, such as Christ The Lord Is Risen Today, founded Methodism, without leaving the Anglican church, and the Methodist church in turn did a great deal to promote the idea of evangelical piety, particularly in the US and Canada. What a pity all the Methodist, Congregational and Presbyterian churches in your country are now part of the United Church of Canada; Toronto, as you probably know, was at one time nicknamed Methodist Rome.
 
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RBPerry

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Wow, thanks for the history lesson. Interesting you mentioned the Gnostic writings. I've read most of them that has been translated into English. What I like about them is I can fill in the blanks with whatever I want, just kidding, I think. According to many that know me I'm a heretic, go to church on the wrong day, eat meat, and enjoy a little wine. I love Wesley, one of his quotes "love God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself, and all the rest is just commentary". That makes theology very simple.
 
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The Liturgist

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Wow, thanks for the history lesson. Interesting you mentioned the Gnostic writings. I've read most of them that has been translated into English. What I like about them is I can fill in the blanks with whatever I want, just kidding, I think. According to many that know me I'm a heretic, go to church on the wrong day, eat meat, and enjoy a little wine. I love Wesley, one of his quotes "love God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself, and all the rest is just commentary". That makes theology very simple.

You’re not a heretic, you’re a classy Canadian Tory Evangelical, and I am praying for you that you are able to attend church and travel normally if you so desire as soon as possible.
 
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RBPerry

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You’re not a heretic, you’re a classy Canadian Tory Evangelical, and I am praying for you that you are able to attend church and travel normally if you so desire as soon as possible.

Thank you, where did you come up with Canadian Troy Evangelical, now that is funny. Yes, got my shots, still in church, and don't travel as much as in the past, actually still working once with people once in a while.
 
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The Liturgist

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Thank you, where did you come up with Canadian Troy Evangelical, now that is funny. Yes, got my shots, still in church, and don't travel as much as in the past, actually still working once with people once in a while.

Well it says your political affiliation is CA-Conservatives, so that makes you a Tory at the Federal level anyway.
 
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Sparta

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Bible Hub offers every English translation, including the Aporyhpa, and the same Bible in other languages, including Greek and Hebrew. It also has a New World Translation, which only exists for people who deny Jesus is more than a human who called himself the Son of God.Because God knows everything and never changes, there should be only one version of it in all languages.
I have stated repeatedly nothing matters if I cannot understand it, which happens every time I see British English. My avatar is specifically about trusting what I understand from easy to read Bibles.


Here is why there are so many "new" bibles.

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GettyImages-1054017850-7ef42af7b8044d7a86cfb2bff8641e1d.jpg



and this.
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_84606042_satan-promo.jpg


-
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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So "new" translations are Satanic? Great, I'll be glad to know that you're reading Hebrew and Greek.
There is a case to be made for this to be true. The Mirror Bible springs to mind, while the Passion translation is definitely dodgy.

Money is definitely a motivator - why pay whomever owns a particular translation to quote from it when you can quote from your own version for free. The NET translation was published to be free content, but to get a physical Bible they needed a publisher... somewhat defeating the point of their translation.

There are other reasons, but money can be a big motivation, sorry to say.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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There are other reasons, but money can be a big motivation, sorry to say.

Oh I agree on the money part for some, uh, "translations". But as for being Satanic?

Guess we could count "The Adulterer's Bible", where the typesetter forgot a little detail, and it came out "Thou shalt commit adultery."
 
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ViaCrucis

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I think we can all agree there is an over-saturation of translations.

In the past such things were easier to deal with. For example the King James Version was, essentially, intended as a replacement of the Bishop's Bible. The translation to end all other translations, in a sense. An authorized version for the English tongue, as decreed by the English king of the only English speaking nation in the world at the time.

King James Onlyists might argue that that's where the story ends. But, obviously, it doesn't. Language changes. English changed.

Our English is not King James' English.

In fact my English probably isn't even the same as someone else's English, because the English-speaking world is huge, and spans a number of nations. I speak a form of North American English, which is not the same thing as British English, Australian English, or New Zealander English. And in North American English I speak American English rather than Canadian English.

How diverse is English today? Well, we can't even agree on what to call these sorts of beverages:

71FDeQsVMQL._SX425_PIbundle-6,TopRight,0,0_SX425SY452SH20_.jpg


-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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and this.
-
_84606042_satan-promo.jpg


-

Weird 19th century goat thing? What does a weird 19th century goat thing have to do with Bible translations?

Disclaimer: I am aware that "baphomet" is generally associated with Satanism, but the history of "baphomet" is layered in ridiculous occult conspiracy theories from the 19th century about an older conspiracy theory--the one which got the Templars killed because a king didn't want to pay back his bank loan.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Bible Hub offers every English translation, including the Aporyhpa, and the same Bible in other languages, including Greek and Hebrew. It also has a New World Translation, which only exists for people who deny Jesus is more than a human who called himself the Son of God.

Because God knows everything and never changes, there should be only one version of it in all languages.

I have stated repeatedly nothing matters if I cannot understand it, which happens every time I see British English. My avatar is specifically about trusting what I understand from easy to read Bibles.

The KJV uses outdated language by 400 plus years. New textual discoveries have been made. A deeper understanding of Biblical languages have happened. Archaeological discoveries have given scholars better understanding of the culture of Scriptures. The KJV is not an inspired translation as some think.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The primary reason there are so many different Bibles is that there are over 6,000 distinct languages spoken by the people here on earth. Fortunately the Bible has been translated into languages spoken by the vast majority of humanity, but there are still hundreds of small people groups without a single verse of scripture. I thank God for ministries such as Wycliffe Bible Translators.
 
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