Why are there so many atheists on a Christian site?

[Archaeopteryx]

Thanks for the red herring. I'm pretty sure we're talking about the Christian God in this recent exchange. So when atheists respond with the problem of evil when talking about the Christian god, they are making the positive assertive claim that the Christian god does not exist. They are not simply stating that "they see no reason to believe there is a God" as bhsmte put it.

I see you avoided answering the question. Would you assert that the existence of evil is incompatible with the existence of the Christian god?

No, I would not say that. I would say that evil poses a problem for the claim that God is both omnipotent and omnibenevolent. This is not an argument against theism per se, but against a particular concept of God.

To clarify again, as I did for hammer of Thor, I believe this recent exchange (between Colter and bhsmte) happens to be concerning, not just any ole god, but specifically the Christian God.

So to you then. Do you believe that the existence of evil is incompatible with the existence of the Christian god?

It's problematic for what Christians claim about God - that he is almighty and all good. In short, it's problematic for the popular Christian characterisation of God.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Atheists claim there is no God? Well, very few atheists make this claim...

I'd like to test this out with you by looking at the so-called problem of evil.

It basically goes like this:
1. An all-powerful God could prevent evil from existing.
2. An all-loving God would prevent evil from existing.
3. Evil exists.
4. Therefore, an all-powerful all-loving God does not exist.

Do you believe this is a valid argument, or would you concede that the existence of evil is compatible with the existence of an all-powerful all-loving God?

You're equivocating. The claim you purport to be testing is that "Atheists claim there is no God." Yet you are actually testing a claim about the existence of an all-powerful, all-loving God. By the end of this paragraph then, the meaning has shifted from "no God" to "no all-powerful, all-loving God." Is this sleight of hand deliberate?

 

[Eyes wide Open]

I mean, not that I want them gone, but it just seems strange to me that so many atheists would choose to spend their time and eergy on a site that is antithetical to their worldview. The interesting thing to me is that they don't seem to be here to proselytize, which would make sense to me. I assume that they, or many of them anyway, feela sense of community here if they've been here for a while. So, if not to show the poor theist the freedom of atheism, what is the draw?

Because atheists like to crash the party....filling the fruit punch with all that hard stuff, lol, leading them Christians astray!!! I'm not an atheist but I joined to better understand what makes folk tick, its been interesting, and the atheist POV has been invaluable, so I'll raise my glass of the hard stuff, cheers.

 

[Cearbhall]

On this first experiential world created by God, atheist claim there is no God. That puts them at odds with reality

It puts us as odds with your religion, not science or the type of reality that is accepted by all people, and I'm perfectly content with that.

ultimatly unreal for there is no salvageable soul growing within them.

Huh? Don't most Christians believe that atheists can be "saved?" Lost sheep, and all that.

 

[Colter]

It puts us as odds with your religion, not science or the type of reality that is accepted by all people, and I'm perfectly content with that.

Huh? Don't most Christians believe that atheists can be "saved?" Lost sheep, and all that.

Science isn't a God, it's mind discerning, correlating and interpreting the facts of the material world. Science doesn't carry man beyond the grave.

Sure, an atheist can be born of the spirit and continue on, but for one who completely embraces sin (disloyalty to deity) there is no salvageable soul growth within (the soul being the immortal spiritual byproduct of cooperating with the will of the Father). To completely embrace godlessness is to embrace the doctrines of death. The embrace of ultimate meaningless of life beyond the grave is in fact validated by cessation of existence, that is the choice of the candidate.

 

[MissVeronica]

I mean, not that I want them gone, but it just seems strange to me that so many atheists would choose to spend their time and eergy on a site that is antithetical to their worldview. The interesting thing to me is that they don't seem to be here to proselytize, which would make sense to me. I assume that they, or many of them anyway, feela sense of community here if they've been here for a while. So, if not to show the poor theist the freedom of atheism, what is the draw?

I think it's good that Atheist are on here, remember healthy people don't need doctors. Firstly, I was once a non believer and no one could tell me any different. That's through ignorance and pride and the idea that I was backing down. However, one thing to know is, when we walk on the street and we see a beautiful painting, WE KNOW IT WAS PAINTED BY A PAINTER. but we cannot see the painter. So we know God exist because he gave us creation. Who don't want to believe is because Satan has blinded the mind of unbelievers. God doesn't care who believes or not he is still God. Simple, most Atheist are atheist because of ignorance and probably because no one has really sat down and explained or because they haven't tried to find out for Themself. So I think they should stay. They owe it to themself. Look at the difference most atheist are angry... They are judge mental, they are rude they are hostile. Yet no where in the bible does it say we should be like this. So personally I would choose to be a christian.

 

[MissVeronica]

You're equivocating. The claim you purport to be testing is that "Atheists claim there is no God." Yet you are actually testing a claim about the existence of an all-powerful, all-loving God. By the end of this paragraph then, the meaning has shifted from "no God" to "no all-powerful, all-loving God." Is this sleight of hand deliberate?

Love this .. There is either a god or there is not.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I think it's good that Atheist are on here, remember healthy people don't need doctors.

Why do some believers feel the need to pathologise nonbelief?

Firstly, I was once a non believer and no one could tell me any different. That's through ignorance and pride and the idea that I was backing down. However, one thing to know is, when we walk on the street and we see a beautiful painting, WE KNOW IT WAS PAINTED BY A PAINTER. but we cannot see the painter. So we know God exist because he gave us creation.

We can say that the painting was probably made by a painter because we are familiar with the process by which paintings are created. By contrast, we have little understanding of the process by which universes are created.

Simple, most Atheist are atheist because of ignorance and probably because no one has really sat down and explained or because they haven't tried to find out for Themself.

Ignorance of what specifically?

So I think they should stay. They owe it to themself. Look at the difference most atheist are angry... They are judge mental, they are rude they are hostile.

I wonder why someone would be aggravated by the suggestion that they are "unhealthy" and in need of a "doctor" just because they do not share your creed? Hmmm...

 

[True Scotsman]

Because atheists like to crash the party....filling the fruit punch with all that hard stuff, lol, leading them Christians astray!!! I'm not an atheist but I joined to better understand what makes folk tick, its been interesting, and the atheist POV has been invaluable, so I'll raise my glass of the hard stuff, cheers.

I'll tell you one thing. I spend time over at thethinkingatheist.com and the theists who come there are usually very rude and condescending and also very, very ignorant. They bring the same old tired arguments and generally make a bad job of it.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Science isn't a God, it's mind discerning, correlating and interpreting the facts of the material world.

That's true.

Science doesn't carry man beyond the grave.

Not......yet.

It is the only hope that anyone has. Counting on a non-existent God is a fool's hope.

The embrace of ultimate meaningless of life beyond the grave is

...not any inconvenience to the dead, or necessarily to those still alive.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

However, one thing to know is, when we walk on the street and we see a beautiful painting, WE KNOW IT WAS PAINTED BY A PAINTER.

By definition. But is this a painting?

Or this?

Both are explainable through natural processes, with no intelligent "painter".

Who don't want to believe is because Satan has blinded the mind of unbelievers.

"Blinded" them with reason and good scientific judgment. "Blinded" them with sight.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[KCfromNC]

Why do some believers feel the need to pathologise nonbelief?

Since there's no actual arguments for faith, I find that believers often attribute personal failings to people who disagree with them. Could be a way to rationalize to themselves that their guessing is correct while everyone else who uses the exact same method to come to a different answer must be incorrect.

 

[bhsmte]

Who don't want to believe is because Satan has blinded the mind of unbelievers.

I always enjoy this particular attempt by certain theists to protect their own beliefs.

Anyone who doesn't believe as I do, is blinded by satan. It's like hitting the easy button, to provide a bit of temporary comfort.

 

[Colter]

I always enjoy this particular attempt by certain theists to protect their own beliefs.

Anyone who doesn't believe as I do, is blinded by satan. It's like hitting the easy button, to provide a bit of temporary comfort.

The man enjoys picking on religious people.

 

[TillICollapse]

Since there's no actual arguments for faith, I find that believers often attribute personal failings to people who disagree with them. Could be a way to rationalize to themselves that their guessing is correct while everyone else who uses the exact same method to come to a different answer must be incorrect.

I think what may get overlooked, is that in some ways it's only natural for a believer to view others as having personally failed to not come to the same conclusions they have come to, or believe the same way they believe, because viewing themselves as personal failures is often a key component to their own belief system ... i.e. "I'm a sinner in need of transformation and saving."

IOW, for many there comes a point where they view themselves as having failed life/God/perfection/etc, and then at a later point they found the remedy. If you haven't found the same remedy ... then in many ways it's a "logical" step to make: you are a failure just like they were, you just don't realize it yet or are in denial. This applies not just to unbelievers, but believers who believe differently as well.

The idea that another person may not view themselves as having failed God/life/themselves/etc doesn't really compute. Sure nobody is perfect, but that's not the same as acknowledging you were a sinner that was in rebellion against God, etc. So for someone else to not claim the same types of things about themselves doesn't add up ... there is no frame of reference for such a person, so you end up falling into other categories in their minds: you are in denial, or you simply haven't realized the state you are in yet. The only frame of reference that comes close to such a person who wouldn't view themselves as having personally failed in such ways ... is "God". And since you aren't "God" lol ...

 

[bhsmte]

The man enjoys picking on religious people.

Excuse me for pointing out the obvious; those folks who feel they have to label others as being guided by Satan, who disagree with them.

It is what it is.

 

[Colter]

Excuse me for pointing out the obvious; those folks who feel they have to label others as being guided by Satan, who disagree with them.

It is what it is.

And I tell them Satan is gone, he was defeated, that only his meme is in circulation, so they tell me Satan has blinded me as well.

 

[bhsmte]

And I tell them Satan is gone, he was defeated, that only his meme is in circulation, so they tell me Satan has blinded me as well.

Ok, keep telling them that and I will keep pointing out they need to label those who disagree with them, as being guided by satan.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Who sounds more reasonable?

The person who says "I don't know." Or the person who says "I know for a fact that this is true but I have absolutely no way to prove it to you and if you don't believe me, then you are blinded by an evil, invisible entity who is trying to confuse you."?

 

[Colter]

Who sounds more reasonable?

The person who says "I don't know." Or the person who says "I know for a fact that this is true but I have absolutely no way to prove it to you and if you don't believe me, then you are blinded by an evil, invisible entity who is trying to confuse you."?

Well, if they don't know then saying they don't really know is perfectly reasonable. And if there was and invisible entity buttressing your unbelief then it would be reasonable to sagest such.

And sometimes the nonbeliever appeals to reason for comfort in a vary strange material existence.