Why are there religious people?

TheBarrd said:

Sir, am I to understand that you are calling me a liar and a hypocrite?

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Davian said:

Good gravy. I didn't see that until now.

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Ana the Ist said:

I think it speaks to the nature of morality itself. Quite remarkable what people will accept as normal if it's all they've ever known.

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Ana the Ist said:

Lol seriously?

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Cearbhall said:

I've noticed this about some people who are pro-life. I've had this conversation. I asked how they could treat me like a normal person when they quite literally feel that I'm in favor of keeping infanticide legal. They really couldn't manage to conjure up the same feelings towards me that they feel towards the rare psychopath who thinks actual infanticide is moral. I'm not sure this means that their feelings about the matter aren't genuine, however. I suppose even pro-life people have been desensitized.

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Cearbhall said:

An interesting point. Even many people who think abortion is murder view it differently than infanticide.

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TheBarrd said:

I don't hate you for being pro choice, if that's what you are.

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Davian said:

Seriously. I take things very literally, and if I am not paying attention subtleties like that go right on by me...

I like it, though. For me, I went for a regular-name-type username, so it doesn't read so awkward when that condescending religionist starts in on me with his "Ya know, Davian, if you would assume that I am right about everything..."

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TheBarrd said:

I think of people...especially women!...who want to keep abortion legal as caught up in politically correct foolishness. I strongly suspect that a great many of them haven't really given the issue a lot of thought.

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Cearbhall said:

An interesting point. Even many people who think abortion is murder view it differently than infanticide.

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Cearbhall said:

Oh, hatred isn't what I expect from pro-life people, unless they say that they hate people who approve of infanticide. I'm just looking for consistency. Avoidance, disgust, etc.

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TheBarrd said:

I'm really not into all that.
I'm more of a peace loving gal, actually...I will try to find a reason to get along, no matter how we may disagree...

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Cearbhall said:

No, I just don't believe in objective morality. Or souls, or Hell, or anything that would make abortion obviously problematic. Nothing to do with being PC. My moral system tends to reflect social contract theory, and under this theory I see zero reason to protect a fetus against a pregnant woman's will. Some people who subscribe to this theory disagree, but I have given it a lot of thought.

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Cearbhall said:

That's impressive. I can't say I would be very loving if someone told me that infanticide should be legal, but good job.

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TheBarrd said:

I wonder...if you knew that the pregnant woman really wanted to keep her baby, but felt pressured to abort...would you offer her the kind of help she would need to give her child life?

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TheBarrd said:

What if it meant some sacrifice on your part?

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Cearbhall said:

Of course I would! I only want the option of a safe abortion to be available to her. I'm not "pro-abortion." I'm pro-choice, meaning that I want each woman to be free to make her own decision. Even if I would do something different in her decision, that doesn't matter to me.

What relation do I have to this hypothetical woman that I would have to make sacrifices?

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TheBarrd said:

Didn't you say something earlier about a "social contract"? Aren't we all members of the same society?

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TheBarrd said:

Suppose this girl needs, I dunno...shelter, financial help, or even just someone who will drive her to her doctor and to the hospital when the time comes?

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Cearbhall said:

Social contract theory refers to the way that humans develop morals in order to allow for the existence of mutually beneficial relationships, and ultimately, a society. A simple example is that murder is socially unacceptable because otherwise we would have to live like the people in The Purge year-round and nothing would never get done. In the case of abortion, eliminating a fetus that the pregnant woman doesn't want to carry to term does not harm the society. The fetus has not yet entered society, and no one who functions as a part of society is under threat of being aborted.

I would answer that my personal responsibility for providing each option isn't very high, since I don't care what decision she makes. If I were someone who would condemn her for making a certain choice, as a pro-life person might, then I would have a greater amount of responsibility for making the other options accessible to her.

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TheBarrd said:

I'm not asking you to do anything I have not done myself, by the way...I have taken several of these young girls into my own home, I have bought baby equipment and maternity clothes with my own money, and I have made sure that they have had transportation when they needed it.

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TheBarrd said:

Let me tell you, there is nothing at all like the experience of being able to place a beautiful, living infant in the arms of the new mother, where there would have been nothing but a one more little corpse, rotting somewhere in a dumpster behind some abortion clinic. At least, not in my experience.

Yes, I have stayed with enough new moms that the hospital knows me, and even lets me carry the new baby from the delivery room to the nursery...what a joy it is to me to cuddle these little ones in my arms, knowing that, without volunteers like me, they would have been nothing but abortion statistics.

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