Why are there no cows in the Devonian?

[juvenissun]

Come on Juve. Please explain to me the distinction between "all" and "every" Please feel free to get as layman as possible about just to make sure I understand. You like to say you're trying to teach us, so please teach me this unfamiliar distinction between what appear to be a couple synonyms.

Also, I notice you continue to gloss over the fact that the Bible explicitly states that birds were created on the same day as fish before the land animals appeared. So why do they show up after the land animals in the fossil record?

That was what I thought. But I think differently now.

Why should God stop a certain type of creation until He "finished" all His creations? The Day sequence marks the beginning of each creation, but not the end of them. The end of all creations is on Day 7.

For your information: That means there are NO new life kind appeared today.

Fantastic.

 

[juvenissun]

I did not understand that at all.

Then, ask question.

 

[Loudmouth]

God creates 100 fish kinds today, but that is not all fishes we see today. Because God creates another 100 fish kinds tomorrow. So, today, God see "every" fish He created is good. After the creation is over, then we can say that God created ALL fishes.

With that many contortions, you should join the circus.

 

[juvenissun]

With that many contortions, you should join the circus.

You call that contortion, then there is no straight (logic) talk.

 

[Loudmouth]

You call that contortion, then there is no straight (logic) talk.

It's like saying that humans evolved in the Cambrian because our distant ancestors are found in the Cambrian. It makes no sense.

 

[46AND2]

All right. I explain it to you in plain English:

If I have 30 students in a class and I take 20 of them out for a trip. I can refer to the group in traveling by "every students". But this will not include those did not go. In order to include them, I will say "all students".

God creates 100 fish kinds today, but that is not all fishes we see today. Because God creates another 100 fish kinds tomorrow. So, today, God see "every" fish He created is good. After the creation is over, then we can say that God created ALL fishes.

Wrong, juve. You can say every student WHO WENT ON THE TRIP. or, you can say all the students who went one the trip. But you cannot say every student FROM THE CLASS went on the trip, because that is not true. Nor can you say all the students went on the trip.

Every and all are interchangeable in your scenario, just as in every (all) scenario, because they mean the same thing. The only difference is that every refers to each individual in the group, singularly, and all refers to the population, with plurality. But they both refer to the full set, without exclusion.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

That was what I thought. But I think differently now.

Why should God stop a certain type of creation until He "finished" all His creations? The Day sequence marks the beginning of each creation, but not the end of them. The end of all creations is on Day 7.

Juve, how many times are you going to avoid addressing the fact that regardless of the discrete or continuous nature of creation, the order in which animals are created in the bible does not fit with the fossil record. Birds show up after land animals, not with the fish. End of story. I know you are busily trying to create a distinction between "every" and "all", but maybe you should take a shot at explaining how saying "every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind" was created on the same day actually means that birds were created on an entirely different day. You aren't interpreting scripture here; you're making it up.


Also, I see someone has already satisfactorily addressed the alleged distinction between "every" and "all". The two words are only distinguished in your example if you add a qualification. If you say "All the students got on the bus" it means exactly the same thing as "Every student got on the bus". The only way to distinguish between them is to add a qualification e.g. "Every student who was coming on the trip got on the bus". And that works for both. "All the students who were coming on the trip got on the bus" means exactly the same thing. At least to anyone who speaks English. I'm really thinking that you may be running in to the language barrier here. At least I hope that's what's going on.

 

[CabVet]

Why should God stop a certain type of creation until He "finished" all His creations? The Day sequence marks the beginning of each creation, but not the end of them. The end of all creations is on Day 7.

That still doesn't address the order problem. Fruit trees were some of the first organisms created according to the Bible, yet they only show up very late in the fossil record. Not to mention that the sun came after the plants in the Bible.

 

[PsychoSarah]

The Bible is basically a spiritual book and not a textbook. Fundamentalists who interpret the Bible literally, use the Bible as a textbook while the rest use it only as a spiritual guide. It matters not what the contents are of a spiritual guide. What matters is the personal spiritual message one gets from this guide. Spiritual guides belong to the world of the supernatural and the unfalsifiable. They have no bearing on the physical world other than to console and guide a person's psyche.

Most humans seek consolation and inspiration in all manner of things and examples laid down by great people.

Fundamentalism has no place in a modern society and especially not in our schools. Creationism and such are a bane to any modern society when they trespass onto science.

I have no issue for using religion for that purpose. However, by that definition, it doesn't matter if I am an atheist so long as I am a good person, which I strive for even if in the end I don't believe it will have an impact on any afterlife. I sometimes wonder if being religious prevents people from being truly good, because they always have this constant, personal reward that acts as an incentive for them to be good, and discourages them from sinning, rather than being completely selfless, selflessness becomes impossible because it installs the belief that this good behavior will eventually be rewarded.

 

[EternalDragon]

That still doesn't address the order problem. Fruit trees were some of the first organisms created according to the Bible, yet they only show up very late in the fossil record. Not to mention that the sun came after the plants in the Bible.

The fossil record is not the record of creation. The only reason we have fossils is that an extinction event (the flood) deposited them there thousands of years after creation.

There was light from God. He created it on day one.

How many times does it need to be said or answered?

 

[Loudmouth]

The fossil record is not the record of creation. The only reason we have fossils is that an extinction event (the flood) deposited them there thousands of years after creation.

Then why don't we find a single mammal in the Devonian? Why don't we find a single blade of grass, or a single flowering plant?

 

[EternalDragon]

Then why don't we find a single mammal in the Devonian? Why don't we find a single blade of grass, or a single flowering plant?

Kind of makes you wonder where they came from then, since we have them today, huh?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Then why don't we find a single mammal in the Devonian? Why don't we find a single blade of grass, or a single flowering plant?

because they are defending a part of the bible that has already been disproven, because people tend to be resistant to change. However, the only thing keeping people from eventually accepting that the bible is wrong is out of fear, because the text itself has its own failsafe towards being questioned: questioning and doubting it becomes a punishable sin, and it states that all evidence in doubt is just a test of faith rather than allowing room for the bible to be wrong. the authors of the bible did a good job making sure that, no matter what happened or how foolish its ideas turned out to be, that the bible would withstand it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Then why don't we find a single mammal in the Devonian? Why don't we find a single blade of grass, or a single flowering plant?

Creationist answer: God. for everything.

 

[Loudmouth]

Kind of makes you wonder where they came from then, since we have them today, huh?

Evolution does explain where they come from. Creationism does not, as your posts clearly demonstrate.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Evolution does explain where they come from. Creationism does not, as your posts clearly demonstrate.

Creationism is manmade, not godmade.

 

[CabVet]

Kind of makes you wonder where they came from then, since we have them today, huh?

No, it really does not, evolution explains it. Creationism doesn't.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

The fossil record is not the record of creation. The only reason we have fossils is that an extinction event (the flood) deposited them there thousands of years after creation.

There was light from God. He created it on day one.

How many times does it need to be said or answered?

How many times are you going to pop in to say "The Flood did it" and then disappear when people point out that the fossil record doesn't conform to the Flood model either. There's no reason that the fossil record should be organized the way it is. It shouldn't really be organized at all. Pretty much every organisms should be found at all levels. Are you going to contest this or are you going to keep silent?

 

[anyathesword]

That still doesn't address the order problem. Fruit trees were some of the first organisms created according to the Bible, yet they only show up very late in the fossil record. Not to mention that the sun came after the plants in the Bible.

I don't understand where is the problem? Everything was created in 6 days and stopped on the 7th. This is 24 hour days. It does not matter what order things were created because everything existed and was alive within 1 week.

How would it make sense for things to die in the same order they were created? Everything was alive in 1 week!!!

There was plenty of time after this week for animals to die, to reproduce, to spread out. Id imagine that when the flood came, things didn't die in a certian order, and if it was the case, the receading waters did a huge damage, turning over layers, etc.

After this, I am sure there were other catastrophic events, of course not like the flood, that did a whole new damage.

Either way the fossil record isn't very reliable, we weren't back in history to see what happened.

 

[Loudmouth]

I don't understand where is the problem?

I don't understand why you can't see the problem.

Everything was created in 6 days and stopped on the 7th. This is 24 hour days. It does not matter what order things were created because everything existed and was alive within 1 week.

Then why can't we find their fossils? Why can't we find a single mammal, bird, reptile, species of grass, or flower in Devonian deposits?

Either way the fossil record isn't very reliable, we weren't back in history to see what happened.

The fossils and sediments found on the Earth were there in the past, and we can use them to reconstruct the past.