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Why are the Orthodox being taught this? [Moved from OBOB]

MoNiCa4316

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Christ is Risen!

Given that the Latin rite makes up slightly more than 98% of the Catholic Church and the Eastern rites slightly less than 2%, I think it is fair to assume that the vast majority of people's experience with the Catholic Church will be with the 'Roman' Catholics. So is it really acceptable for Catholics to get their nose out of joint over the expression "Roman Catholic"?

John

perhaps not "Roman Catholic", but simply "Roman" - yes, - for other reasons (as if the Church is part of the Roman Empire).

even though most Catholics are Roman Catholic, there are 22 other rites.

The quote I posted said that the three Sees were the "See of One"

They were all Chairs of Peter... is that not how you understand it?

this is the quote I'm referring to:

"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]). ... On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

I think it is pretty clear..

there are others, such as:

"In the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head—that is why he is also called Cephas [‘Rock’]—of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of your chair, those of you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church" (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [A.D. 367]).

"Likewise it is decreed . . . that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it" (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).


Also, as to 'rock', aren't we all called to be 'rock' as Peter was? I do recall that the Apostles together are said to be the 'foundation' of the church, with Jesus as the 'cheif cornerstone'.

that's not how the early Church understood it.

"[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. . . . Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church" (Modesty 21:9–10 [A.D. 220]).

"Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect" (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D. 221]).

"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

also please look up Isaiah 22 :) that passage refers to Peter, because Christ quoted it when He gave Peter the keys. This essentially makes Peter the "prime minister" (Christ being the King).

Roman Catholic as in those of the Church whose Patriarch is located in Rome (or Ruled from Rome...not sure how to phrase). Just as there are those that are Greek Orthodox, not because they are in Greece, but because they are under the Greek Patriarch (or the Russian Patriarch, etc.).

It is not meant to be offensive. Unfortunately, there are some that choose to take it that way (and I'm not referring to you, but rather to a couple of run ins at Catholic Forums).

I don't consider "Roman Catholic" to be offensive, only when people say "The Roman Church"

:wave:
 
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laconicstudent

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Are the OO included in the "other lung" ?

Well, human lungs actually have a differing number of lobes. The left lung has 2 while the right lung has 3. :)

This is because the heart is slightly lateral from mid-line and so the left lung is slightly smaller to accommodate it.

What an absolutely thrilling train of thought :)

8964.jpg



:ebil:
 
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Thekla

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Well, human lungs actually have a differing number of lobes. The left lung has 2 while the right lung has 3. :)

This is because the heart is slightly lateral from mid-line and so the left lung is slightly smaller to accommodate it.

What an absolutely thrilling train of thought :)

8964.jpg

Hey - you anticipated my next question ^_^

Which lung is who ?
 
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Rhamiel

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Christ is Risen!

Given that the Latin rite makes up slightly more than 98% of the Catholic Church and the Eastern rites slightly less than 2%, I think it is fair to assume that the vast majority of people's experience with the Catholic Church will be with the 'Roman' Catholics. So is it really acceptable for Catholics to get their nose out of joint over the expression "Roman Catholic"?

John
um you make a really good point and I do see where you are coming from
but members of the EO should not come over to OBOB and tell Catholics what they can and can not be offended about, I see you ended it with a question mark, but is that really an honest question or just a subtle way of telling us we are wrong? (see I can make questions seem like statements too)
lol I hope I do not sound too rude, I always love your posts in GT, but this is not GT
Roman Catholic as in those of the Church whose Patriarch is located in Rome (or Ruled from Rome...not sure how to phrase). Just as there are those that are Greek Orthodox, not because they are in Greece, but because they are under the Greek Patriarch (or the Russian Patriarch, etc.).
that is true, but not all Catholics have the Pope as their Patriarch, the Eastern Rites have their own Patriarches, it would be like me calling all Eastern Orthodox Christians "Russian Orthodox"
now that said, since the Latin Rite is the largest Rite and the vaaaaaast majority of Catholics in the USA and Europe are Latin Rite, and the simple fact we have buildings with the words "Roman Catholic" on it, I am not offended by the term, not at all
Well, human lungs actually have a differing number of lobes. The left lung has 2 while the right lung has 3. :)

This is because the heart is slightly lateral from mid-line and so the left lung is slightly smaller to accommodate it.

What an absolutely thrilling train of thought :)

8964.jpg

are you in med school? i remember you posted a lot about blood in GT one time
 
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laconicstudent

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are you in med school? i remember you posted a lot about blood in GT one time

Nope, undergraduate B.S. Psychology program. :yum:


*glances at his 4 year plan*

Why does my hand out from the Psychology department say I need CHM 2372, Organic Chemistry for BIO 4418, Neurobiology? The online time schedule says I only need either BIO 2101 and 2102 or BIO 2129 and 2130.

Why does my school only offer a single section of it alternating years? The only neurology class here. And only 16 seats? The heck? And every blithering idiot whose taken the basic biology or anatomy sequence will think it sounds cool, regardless of whether there is professional applicability. :mad:

If I can't get into that class, I am going to go completely nuclear. :|
 
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Montalban

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that's the way I've understood it

I put the term "Catholic Church" into Wiki and then looked at the various other languages


French: Église catholique romaine
Latin: Ecclesia Catholica Romana
Scots Gaelic: Eaglais Chaitliceach Rómhánach
Bosnian:Rimokatoličanstvo
Vietnamese: Giáo hội Công giáo Rôma
Afrikaans: Rooms-Katolieke Kerk
Magyar: Római katolikus egyház
Squiggly: რომის კათოლიკური ეკლესია

Such diverse languages!

Some start off 'right' for you
Spanish: Iglesia católica, but then says it's know as Iglesia católica apostólica romana
 
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Montalban

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benedictaoo

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If the two lungs of the Church would become one again it would change the world.

The "two lungs" refer to the eastern churches that are in union. WE are breathing fine. It's the EO that only function on one lung.

If the EO would rejoin the Eastern rites that are in union then they would have two lungs.
 
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benedictaoo

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I don't expect you to accept what I say because if you did you would have to be a Catholic. So, I won't try to argue with you. Instead, I hope that one day the two lungs of East and West will join again together. But it seems like the closer we are to each other the more resistance there is to unity.

Excuse me but the two lungs of the East and West are breathing together. The "Orthodox" are the few diocese out of the East who did not rejoin.
 
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benedictaoo

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It's like a senate-majority leader. Still a senator, but for 90%+ of the votes, everyone just follows their lead. Senators aren't required to follow that lead though.

The honorary title creates harmony for all the small stuff. For the most part, that lead is followed. But in a real crisis, we resort to a full council. The president of that council would be the highest ranking bishop (so even their they have some ability to control / set / influence the agenda and proceedings), but each bishop represents their diocese, and their authority there is sacrosanct as they are the icon of Christ.

and that's basically how it is, with the exception Peter's successor has the final say if need be and has the gift of infallibility when it comes to teaching/protecting the faith.
 
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prodromos

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The "two lungs" refer to the eastern churches that are in union. WE are breathing fine.
With one massive lung and one minuscule. I'm sure there is a medical term for such a condition and I don't believe it is "fine" :D
 
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AllForJesus

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I put the term "Catholic Church" into Wiki and then looked at the various other languages


French: Église catholique romaine
Latin: Ecclesia Catholica Romana
Scots Gaelic: Eaglais Chaitliceach Rómhánach
Bosnian:Rimokatoličanstvo
Vietnamese: Giáo hội Công giáo Rôma
Afrikaans: Rooms-Katolieke Kerk
Magyar: Római katolikus egyház
Squiggly: რომის კათოლიკური ეკლესია

Such diverse languages!

Some start off 'right' for you
Spanish: Iglesia católica, but then says it's know as Iglesia católica apostólica romana

:sigh:
 
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benedictaoo

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We don't accept the Popes analogy. We are not missing any organs thank you very much :)



You know what? I think I'm done playing. You are, you are missing the Western organ.
We are in the Catholic sub forum, not the Orthodox sub forum.

I was correction LWU's analogy.

The pope wasn't referring to the EO but The Eastern Church, the churches that are in union- we, the Catholic Church, East and West, breath with both lungs.

and I don't like JPll analogy either because it's one Church. This division of East and West is man made and why we have the problems that we do.

It's ONE Church in essence, dang it.

We are not the Latin Church or the "Roman Church". We are the CATHOLIC Church and that includes the entire Church, both East and West. It's ONE Church, which is why I am absolutely clueless as to why any Orthodox could actually think the "true" Church would ever be exclusively Eastern. That you can separate, what is it? 7 dioceses and actuality think that is the entire Catholic Church.

When we are talking about the Catholic Church, we are talking about ONE single Church. When we are talking about rites, then we are talking about different cultures and liturgies, but it's still ONE Church, that's why I don't tolerate the "Roman" baloney.

Sadly, the Orthodox separate themselves from the Catholic Church, ie, universal Church, ie both from the East and West.

The entire universal Catholic Church, East and West certainly isn't separating itself from the Orthodox.
 
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