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Why are so many people hateful and selfish ?

Joseph G

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I don't understand does God only want a few people in heaven ?
I believe you have put your finger on just one indicator that we are indeed in the last days. Does this sound familiar?

2 Timothy 3:1-9 NIV

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people."

"They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone."

As to God's desire, He wants that none of us should be lost and that all come to repentance. And He is surely grieved that the majority of mankind will reject Him.

Should we therefore wring our hands for the tragedy of it all? Well, God doesn't. Just because it is all beyond our ability to understand, does not mean that His purposes are somehow thwarted by His own creation. God does and will have EXACTLY what He desires - a Kingdom chock full of children - His children - purchased for eternity by His Son Jesus.

And besides, it's not like Heaven will be sparsely populated...

Revelation 5:6-14 NIV

"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

"Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped."

AND...

Revelation 7:9-12 NIV

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:

“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”

God bless us all who will believe!

biblegateway.com
 

David Lamb

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It's just a typical protestant tradition with some TULIP in it. No over emphasing any of the letters, some people don't believe all 5 letters of TULIP, and that's okay since the bible is the guide not the doctrine.
But is that really an early form of Calvinism? Calvinism arose as a response to the 5 Points that Arminius brought out: Unrestricted Free Will, Conditional election, Unlimited Atonement, Resistible Grace, Possibility of falling from grace. That's why we have "Five Points of Calvinism," not because they fully state Calvin's theology, but because they were written in response to the five points of Arminius.
 

2PhiloVoid

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I don't understand does God only want a few people in heaven ?

It's not that God only wants a few people in Heaven.

Rather, He looks 'down' from Heaven and sees that only a few people actually want to be there. Shocking, I know. But just go ask a million people, "Hey, do you want to spend Eternity in Heaven with the God of the Bible?," and see what they say statistically.
 

Gregory Thompson

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But is that really an early form of Calvinism? Calvinism arose as a response to the 5 Points that Arminius brought out: Unrestricted Free Will, Conditional election, Unlimited Atonement, Resistible Grace, Possibility of falling from grace. That's why we have "Five Points of Calvinism," not because they fully state Calvin's theology, but because they were written in response to the five points of Arminius.
Today it's so polarized, that even Calvin would be a heretic.
 
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MassimoTheChristian

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There is a more early view of calvinism that fits in with most of the theologies. However, today that is rare.

The contemporary calvinism contributing to intrusive thoughts, depression, and general xenophobia, is what is wrong.
What is the difference between early Calvinism and contemporary Calvinism ?
 
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David Lamb

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Today it's so polarized, that even Calvin would be a heretic.
There are people known as hyper-Calvinists who say that it is inappropriate and unbiblical to invite people to Christ unless they give some evidence of being among the elect. That's certainly not what Calvin, or indeed most Calvinists teach or believe. Perhaps you have come across such people.
 
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Joseph G

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Today it's so polarized, that even Calvin would be a heretic.
Hmm... what is more heretical than burning heretics? Aren't the ones who love Christ the ones who obey Him? Can we identify Calvin as a Christian by his love? Why submit oneself to the teaches of one who issues forth both curses and blessings?

Who needs Calvinism or Arminianism or any ism, theologian, or religious scholar - when one has their Holy Bible and the indwelling Holy Spirit? And worship in the midst of a local Body of Believers who are likewise endowed?

Let the debaters perpetually debate, and join the universal, invisible Body of Christ in going out and bearing actual fruit for the Kingdom, fruit that Jesus promises will remain.
 
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David Lamb

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Hmm... what is more heretical than burning heretics? Aren't the ones who love Christ the ones who obey Him? Can we identify Calvin as a Christian by his love? Why submit oneself to the teaches of one who issues forth both curses and blessings?

Who needs Calvinism or Arminianism or any ism, theologian, or religious scholar - when one has their Holy Bible and the indwelling Holy Spirit? And worship in the midst of a local Body of Believers who are likewise endowed?

Let the debaters perpetually debate, and join the universal, invisible Body of Christ in going out and bearing actual fruit for the Kingdom, fruit that Jesus promises will remain.
That is why I, and I am sure others, prefer to use a term like the doctrines of grace, so that we focus on the teaching, and not on a man, however good or bad.
 
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Joseph G

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That is why I, and I am sure others, prefer to use a term like the doctrines of grace, so that we focus on the teaching, and not on a man, however good or bad.
Understood. I just personally find a higher level of peace after all these years of quoting this or that personality, in identifying all profitable doctrine to have only one source, fully self-contained within the pages of Holy Scripture - and as revealed by the Holy Spirit - without reliance on extraneous writings to illuminate - whether a signature is at the top or not.

Isn't it sufficient to just say, "Jesus says..."?

God bless.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Gregory Thompson

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There are people known as hyper-Calvinists who say that it is inappropriate and unbiblical to invite people to Christ unless they give some evidence of being among the elect. That's certainly not what Calvin, or indeed most Calvinists teach or believe. Perhaps you have come across such people.
Yeah, there are quite a few who use Calvinism as an occasion for being a congregational dictator.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Hmm... what is more heretical than burning heretics? Aren't the ones who love Christ the ones who obey Him? Can we identify Calvin as a Christian by his love? Why submit oneself to the teaches of one who issues forth both curses and blessings?

Who needs Calvinism or Arminianism or any ism, theologian, or religious scholar - when one has their Holy Bible and the indwelling Holy Spirit? And worship in the midst of a local Body of Believers who are likewise endowed?

Let the debaters perpetually debate, and join the universal, invisible Body of Christ in going out and bearing actual fruit for the Kingdom, fruit that Jesus promises will remain.
The original question of the thread was: I don't understand does God only want a few people in heaven ?

What is your answer to the question.
 
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Joseph G

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Joseph G

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So what is your answer to the subject question, you quoted?
Gregory, is the link not working for you? My answer is the first reply to the OP, and is clear as a bell, friend.
 
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Joseph G

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Gregory, is the link not working for you? My answer is the first reply to the OP, and is clear as a bell, friend.
Oops... brain spasm. Scroll up on this 2nd page and it is a direct reply to you. Cheers!
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Gregory, is the link not working for you? My answer is the first reply to the OP, and is clear as a bell, friend.
I just asked the questions because you seemed to want to talk about something else.
 
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Joseph G

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I just asked the questions because you seemed to want to talk about something else.
Gregory, you were in fact the first to respond to the OP, referencing Calvin, here:

Why are so many people hateful and selfish ?

I addressed the OP, which you seem to be still missing, and I addressed *your* diversion to Calvinism.

Gotta admit, this is a real head scratcher. Have you been getting enough sleep lately, bub? How about addressing my replies and engaging in dialogue? This is getting a bit tedious frankly...
 
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David Lamb

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Yeah, there are quite a few who use Calvinism as an occasion for being a congregational dictator.
A church doesn't have to have Calvinist beliefs in order to have a pastor who acts like a dictator, though thankfully I have never been in a church that has one!
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Gregory, you were in fact the first to respond to the OP, referencing Calvin, here:

Why are so many people hateful and selfish ?

I addressed the OP, which you seem to be still missing, and I addressed *your* diversion to Calvinism.

Gotta admit, this is a real head scratcher. Have you been getting enough sleep lately, bub? How about addressing my replies and engaging in dialogue? This is getting a bit tedious frankly...
I don't really see anything to add after reading your posts, but I did give you a chance to change the direction of the discussion while leaving behind your previous posts.
 
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