Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

ClementofA

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So let me get this straight...

Matthew 25:46"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The same Greek word is used. Are you telling me these are used differently?

Maybe. Maybe not. Either way universalism is Bible truth & "eternal" is a deceptive translation.

Is aionios used "differently" in each of its two occurrences in Rom.16:25-26? Is the aionios God (Rom.16:26) of the same duration as "long ages" (Rom.16:25, NIV, NASB, ESV, NET, WEY, YLT, etc) during which a revelation was kept secret (v.25) but is "now revealed" (v.26a)? Why, then, is it assumed aionios life must be of the same duration as aionios punishment (Mt.25:46)?

Is a tall building the same height as a tall blade of grass? No. Why, then, is it assumed aionios life must be of the same duration as aionios punishment (Mt.25:46)? In the sentence "The blessed stay in a tall high rise, but the wicked in a tall dungeon", is the high rise equally as tall as the dungeon?

Just as the adjective tall varies with what it refers to, so also the adjective aionion (eonian) varies with what it refers to. A tall man is not the same size as a tall tree or highrise or mountain. Likewise:

"So of aiónion; applied to Jonah's residence in the fish, it means seventy hours; to the priesthood of Aaron, it signifies several centuries; to the mountains, thousands of years; to the punishments of a merciful God, as long as is necessary to vindicate his law and reform his children; to God himself, eternity." AIN -- AINIOS

Similarly, a long life need not be of the same duration as a long punishment. A perpetual life is not necessarily of the same duration as a perpetual punishment.

Is the aion of an ant of the same duration as the aion of a tree?

"There are as many eons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one eon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow’s life, another of an oak’s life. The length of the eon depends on the subject to which it is attached." (WORD STUDIES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT by MARVIN R. VINCENT, D.D."
https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/books/Word-Studies-in-the-New-Testament-Vol-3&4-Marvin-R-Vincent.pdf

Is the church age eon of the same duration as the internet age eon? Is the eon of a geological age of the same duration as the millennial eon? If not, then why should eonian in Mt.25:46 have to be of the same duration in reference to punishment & life?

If believers go into the life aionios (i.e. pertaining to the age to come) & unbelievers go into the punishment aionios (i.e. pertaining to the age to come), does that prove that the punishment must absolutely be co-extensive with the life? No. Does it prove that the age to come is not finite? No.

Could both occurrences of aionios in Mt.25:46 refer to a finite age (or ages) to come? Yes.

If aionios is of equal duration in both occurrences of Mt.25:46, shouldn't "all mankind" (Rom.5:18), "the many" (Rom.5:19) and "all" (1 Cor.15:22, 28) be co-extensive in number in these passages:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die - so also - in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in ALL.

"Augustine raised the argument that since aionios in Mt. 25:46 referred to both life and punishment, it had to carry the same duration in both cases. However, he failed to consider that the duration of aionios is determined by the subject to which it refers. For example, when aionios referred to the duration of Jonah’s entrapment in the fish, it was limited to three days. To a slave, aionios referred to his life span. To the Aaronic priesthood, it referred to the generation preceding the Melchizedek priesthood. To Solomon’s temple, it referred to 400 years. To God it encompasses and transcends time altogether."

"Thus, the word cannot have a set value. It is a relative term and its duration depends upon that with which it is associated. It is similar to what “tall” is to height. The size of a tall building can be 300 feet, a tall man six feet, and a tall dog three feet...An adjective relates to the noun it modifies."
Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

"...It is simply contrary to historical fact to suggest that the essence of these time expressions is that of endless duration. As Thomas De Quincey, the nineteenth century essayist and literary critic states: “All this speculation, first and last, is pure nonsense. Aiõnios does not mean ‘eternal,’ neither does it mean of limited duration . . . . What is an aiõn? The duration or cycle of existence which belongs to any object, not individually of itself, but universally, in right of its genius [i.e., inherent nature] . . . . The exact amount of the duration expressed by an aiõn depends altogether upon the particular subject which yields the aiõn.” "
Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three

Philosophy professor Tom Talbott, author of "The Inescapable Love of God", remarked:

"Whatever its correct translation, “aionios” is clearly an adjective and must therefore function like an adjective, and it is the very nature of an adjective for its meaning to vary, sometimes greatly, depending upon which noun it qualifies. For more often than not, the noun helps to determine the precise force of the adjective. As an illustration, set aside the Greek word “aionios” for a moment and consider the English word “everlasting.” I think it safe to say that the basic meaning of this English word is indeed everlasting. So now consider how the precise force of “everlasting” varies depending upon which noun it qualifies. An everlasting struggle would no doubt be a struggle without end, an unending temporal process that never comes to a point of resolution and never gets completed. But an everlasting change, or an everlasting correction, or an everlasting transformation would hardly be an unending temporal process that never gets completed; instead, it would be a temporal process of limited duration, or perhaps simply an instantaneous event, that terminates in an irreversible state. So however popular it might be, the argument that “aionios” must have exactly the same force regardless of which noun it qualifies in Matthew 25:46 is clearly fallacious."

"Accordingly, even if we should translate “aionios” with the English word “everlasting,” a lot would still depend upon how we understand the relevant nouns in our text: the nouns “life” (zoe) and “punishment” (kolasis). Now the kind of life in question, being rightly related to God, is clearly an end in itself, even as the kind of punishment in question seems just as clearly to be a means to an end. For as one New Testament scholar, William Barclay, has pointed out, “kolasis” “was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better.” Barclay also claimed that “in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment”–which is probably a bit of a stretch, since the language of correction and the language of retribution often get mixed together in ordinary language. But in any event, if “kolasis” does signify punishment of a remedial or a corrective kind, as I think it does in Matthew 25:46, then we can reasonably think of such punishment as everlasting in the sense that its corrective effects literally endure forever. Or, to put it another way: An everlasting correction, whenever successfully completed, would be a temporal process of limited duration that terminates in the irreversible state of being rightly related to God. Certainly nothing in the context of Matthew 25 excludes such an interpretation."

"This would not be my preferred interpretation, however, because the English word “everlasting” does not accurately capture the special religious meaning that “aionios” typically has in the New Testament."

https://www.amazon.com/Inescapable-...498222412/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_pdt_img_top?ie=UTF8

Here are some literal & other translations of Mt.25:46:

The New Testament: A Translation, by Eastern Orthodox scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017, Yale Press):
"And these shall go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age."

Translation of the New Testament from the Original Greek Humbly Attempted by Nathaniel Scarlett Assisted by Men of Piety & Literature with notes, 1798:
"And These will go away into onian punishment: but the righteous into onian life."

The New Testament by Abner Kneeland, 1823:
"And these shall go away into aionian punishment*: but the righteous into aionian life."

The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson, 1884:
"And these shall go away into onian chastisement, and the just into onian life."

Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."

The Holy Bible in Modern English, 1903
"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life."

The New Testament in Modern Speech, 1910:
"And these shall go away into the Punishment 1 of the Ages, but the righteous into the Life 1 of the Ages."
1. [Of the Ages] Greek "aeonian."

A Critical Paraphrase of the New Testament by Vincent T. Roth, 1960
"And these shall go away into age-continuing punishment, but the righteous into life age-continuing."

The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, 1976
"And these shall go away into age-abiding *correction, but the righteous into **age-abiding life."

The Twentieth Century New Testament, 1900
"And these last will go away into onian punishment, but the righteous into onian life."

The People's New Covenant, 1925
"And these will depart into age-continuing correction, but the righteous, into age-continuing life."

Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition
"And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life."

The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958
"And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life."

The New Testament, a Translation, 1938
"And these will go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life."

The New Testament, A New Translation, 1980
"Then they will begin to serve a new period of suffering; but God's faithful will enter upon their heavenly life."

Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
"And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."

Jonathan Mitchell N.T. Translation:
"46. "And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)."
::Jonathan Mitchell's New Testament Translation::

"....the Old Syriac Version [i.e., the Peshi^to], where the one [i.e., uniform] rendering is still more unmistakably clear: ‘These shall go away to the pain of the olam, and these to the life of the olam’–the world to come.” History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Retribution: The Peshito

"Of the New Testament, attempts at translation must have been made very early, and among the ancient versions of New Testament Scripture the Syriac in all likelihood is the earliest."
Syriac Versions of the Bible, by Thomas Nicol

"The Peshi^to is, as we have said, the earliest version of the New Testament. Its value and authority it is not easy to over-estimate. Westcott says: “Gregory Bar Hebraeus, one of the most learned and accurate of Syrian writers, relates that the New Testament Peshi^to was ‘made in the time of Thaddeus (the apostle), and Abgarus, King of Edessa,’ when, according to the universal opinion of ancient writers, the apostle went to proclaim Christianity in Mesopotamia” (Canon, p. 259). He adds that Gregory assumes the apostolic origin of the New Testament Peshi^ito as certain, and that it preceded all the sects of the Syrian Church, and was received and appealed to by all."

"How, then, was aionios translated by this version? In support of his own translation Prof. Tayler Lewis says, “So is it ever (translated) in the old Syriac version, where the one rendering is still more unmistakably clear.” “These shall go into the pain of the Olam (the world to come), and these to the life of the Olam (the world to come).” He refers to many other passages, as Matt. xix. 16; Mark x. 17.; Luke xviii. 18; John iii.15: Acts xiii. 46; 1 Tim. vi. 12, in which aionios is rendered belonging to the Olam, the world to come."
History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Retribution: The Peshito


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Solomon Smith

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Mt.25:46 doesn't use the word "torment".




Then, by the same reasoning, the "parallel" in Rom.5:19 proves Scriptural universalism to be true:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

And your translation of Mt.25:46 contradicts this translation of Lamentations 3:

Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.

While these translations (& others) of Mt.25:46 are in harmony with all the verses above i have posted:

The New Testament: A Translation, by Eastern Orthodox scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017, Yale Press):
"And these shall go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age."

Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."

Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition
"And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life."

Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
"And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

Your position is not the orthodox accepted Christian belief. What you have posted is Universalism and goes against mainstream Christianity. Your interpretations of those scriptures are heterodox.
 
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ClementofA

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Your position is not the orthodox accepted Christian belief. What you have posted is Universalism and goes against mainstream Christianity. Your interpretations of those scriptures are heterodox.


In the early church universalism was the orthodox (biblical) view & may have been the orthodox (majority) view for centuries (see urls below) prior to the dark ages. It may also be today, or be on the way to becoming, the majority Christian view (see urls below):


Early Church Writings Fathers:
Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times
Indeed Very Many: Universalism in the Early Church
Early church writings re final destiny (paradise, Gospel, incarnation, Jehovah) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum
Articles on the history of Christian Universalism throughout the centuries
https://s3.amazonaws.com/unsearchablerich/booksonwebsite/©CPC+The+Ancient+History+of+Universalism.pdf
Universalism...First 500 Years
 
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Hillsage

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In the early church universalism was the orthodox (biblical) view & may have been the orthodox (majority) view for centuries (see urls below) prior to the dark ages. It may also be today, or be on the way to becoming, the majority Christian view (see urls below):


Early Church Writings Fathers:
Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times
Indeed Very Many: Universalism in the Early Church
Early church writings re final destiny (paradise, Gospel, incarnation, Jehovah) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum
Articles on the history of Christian Universalism throughout the centuries
https://s3.amazonaws.com/unsearchablerich/booksonwebsite/©CPC+The+Ancient+History+of+Universalism.pdf
Universalism...First 500 Years
The only reason I might not agree with your "majority Christian view" is based upon the following;

1CO 2:6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away.

There's just too much immaturity in today's church to receive a wisdom that's requiring a maturity level that seems so lacking IMO. A maturity which IMO must be referring to a 'spiritual maturity', as opposed to the maturity of the religious spirit's theologies which has influenced and bound so many for so many centuries.

I do hope you're right Clement. But to bring it to pass, I believe there is also something else needed. And that is the manifested outpouring from the Holy Spirit, 'of the likes' which the world has not seen and experienced since the Jesus movement of the 70's. Personally I do believe that 'that' is what it is going to take to bind the spirit which has dominated so many of the minds of believers today. They are simply bound to the theological anchors of the dark age's church, from long ago.
 
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Saint Steven

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deleted 'glitch' :confused:
The same NT Greek word is used for both words "eternal".

166
aionios
from aiwn - aion 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
 
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ClementofA

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The same NT Greek word is used for both words "eternal".

166
aionios
from aiwn - aion 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


From the word "eternal" to the end of that quote from Strong's concordance is merely relating how the KJV mistranslated the word according to its pro endless tortures bias.

Liddell-Scott-Jones Lexicon gives "lasting for an age" as its first definition:
Strong's #166 - αἰώνιος - Old & New Testament Greek Lexicon

Moulton & Milligan state "In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view, whether the horizon be at an infinite distance...or whether it lies no farther than the span of a Cæsar’s life."
Strong's #166 - αἰώνιος - Old & New Testament Greek Lexicon

Examples of aionios as a finite duration in Koine Greek:

Two Questions
Does aionios always mean eternal in ancient Koine Greek? (paradise, Gospel, hell) - Christianity -  - City-Data Forum

If Jesus wished to express endless punishment, then He would have used expressions such as "endless", "no end" & "never be saved" as per:

How Scripture expresses endless duration (not aion/ios) (paradise, hell, punishment) - Christianity -  - City-Data Forum

Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment.

ENDLESSNESS not applied to eschatological PUNISHMENT in Scripture:

could an 'eternal punishment' simply mean that once instituted it will not change?

12 points re forever and ever (literally to/into "the ages of the ages") being finite:

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
 
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ClementofA

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The only reason I might not agree with your "majority Christian view" is based upon the following;

1CO 2:6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away.

There's just too much immaturity in today's church to receive a wisdom that's requiring a maturity level that seems so lacking IMO. A maturity which IMO must be referring to a 'spiritual maturity', as opposed to the maturity of the religious spirit's theologies which has influenced and bound so many for so many centuries.

I do hope you're right Clement. But to bring it to pass, I believe there is also something else needed. And that is the manifested outpouring from the Holy Spirit, 'of the likes' which the world has not seen and experienced since the Jesus movement of the 70's. Personally I do believe that 'that' is what it is going to take to bind the spirit which has dominated so many of the minds of believers today. They are simply bound to the theological anchors of the dark age's church, from long ago.

In this enlightened internet age i expect there will be more & more rejecting the traditional dark ages view of endless tortures & opting instead for universalism, annihilationism, notsureism, hopeful universalism, etc, as they become properly informed. Perhaps, among Christians, most are already of the view of either universalism or hopeful universalism. The latter can be officially believed in the two largest denominations, RC & EO.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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The whole assumption in the OP sounds to me like an argument we’ve heard before adjusted for a different appeal, that is, “did God say you shall SUFFER for your sins?.....God knows that you shall not suffer eternally...He knows in the day you die you shall be peacefully put to sleep and never suffer again.”. Where have we heard reasoning like this? How did that work out for those who believed it?
 
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Saint Steven

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From the word "eternal" to the end of that quote from Strong's concordance is merely relating how the KJV mistranslated the word according to its pro endless tortures bias.

Liddell-Scott-Jones Lexicon gives "lasting for an age" as its first definition:
Strong's #166 - αἰώνιος - Old & New Testament Greek Lexicon

Moulton & Milligan state "In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view, whether the horizon be at an infinite distance...or whether it lies no farther than the span of a Cæsar’s life."
Strong's #166 - αἰώνιος - Old & New Testament Greek Lexicon

Examples of aionios as a finite duration in Koine Greek:

Two Questions
Does aionios always mean eternal in ancient Koine Greek? (paradise, Gospel, hell) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum

If Jesus wished to express endless punishment, then He would have used expressions such as "endless", "no end" & "never be saved" as per:

How Scripture expresses endless duration (not aion/ios) (paradise, hell, punishment) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum

Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment.

ENDLESSNESS not applied to eschatological PUNISHMENT in Scripture:

could an 'eternal punishment' simply mean that once instituted it will not change?

12 points re forever and ever (literally to/into "the ages of the ages") being finite:

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
I'm talking about the NT Greek text. The KJV translation did not change the original Greek. Why would you claim such a thing?
 
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Hillsage

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The same NT Greek word is used for both words "eternal".

166
aionios
from aiwn - aion 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
Absolutely they are the same two words. But the definition you just quoted for the word aionios is a big reason for this struggle which you have and which I once had. As Clement has tried to show with 'toooooo much supporting info' which probably doesn't even get read, let alone 'studied', there is a problem with the definition you quoted. If you will just go back to 'the end' of his big #863 post and read the Matthew BIBLE verses, you'll see many translations which do not agree with the root Greek word AION being translated "eternity". To take a 'root' word like AION and make its definition 'both' an age AND eternity is no definition at all. But that's also why we have 'scholarly' translations such as Clement posted which do not agree with the popular 'eternity' translations of today. Translations which we believe came to pass as a result of 'indoctrination' and not from correct 'interpretation'.

But no one here ever disproves those translations when presented. No one has said "here was the crook-ery of those translators and their interpretation into English". Translators who would not translate based upon the doctrine of orthodoxy, but upon the laws of grammar, which they saw being misused. I'm going to stop now because posting more simply does not work IMO. No one wants a drink from the firehose. And yes there is a plethora of information out there for both sides. But I will just end with one of my 'never refuted' posts concerning when UNIVERSALISM was the majority belief in the beginning.

"SIX THEOLOGICAL SCHOOLS

German theologian - Philip Schaff writes :“In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria…Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthageor Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine
on this subject is unknown.”

( The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge – Vol XII, Baker Book
House, 1950, p. 96.)"


And we all know what the church of ROME did to anyone who ever disagreed with 'her theology' and her political power in the world. Killed those Christians and burned all their heretic works.
 
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Pneuma3

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The same NT Greek word is used for both words "eternal".

166
aionios
from aiwn - aion 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

Steven aion and its adjective aionios simply mean of unknown duration.

We simply have no idea the length of TIME that is being dealt with here, and aion most certainly does deal with time.

It does not mean or did ever mean eternal or endless as the Greek word for endless is
Akatalutos-Endless: indissoluble, not subject to destruction.

Now if God wanted us to believe those scriptures were speaking of endlessness why did He not use the word that actually means endless?

Another thing to keep in mind is that the scriptures also tell us that the aions all come to an END. So if the aions come to an END they obviously CANNOT be endless.

Do you not find it weird that the Greek actually has words for eternal and endless and yet not once are these words EVER used in conjunction with the judgments of God?
 
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Solomon Smith

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In the early church universalism was the orthodox (biblical) view & may have been the orthodox (majority) view for centuries (see urls below) prior to the dark ages. It may also be today, or be on the way to becoming, the majority Christian view (see urls below):


Early Church Writings Fathers:
Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times
Indeed Very Many: Universalism in the Early Church
Early church writings re final destiny (paradise, Gospel, incarnation, Jehovah) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum
Articles on the history of Christian Universalism throughout the centuries
https://s3.amazonaws.com/unsearchablerich/booksonwebsite/©CPC+The+Ancient+History+of+Universalism.pdf
Universalism...First 500 Years

In a word.....NO. You are living in a fantasy world. Universalism is a view held by a small minority. The writings of scripture refute Universalism so it’s impossible that the early church taught or believed such heresy.
 
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Pneuma3

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In a word.....NO. You are living in a fantasy world. Universalism is a view held by a small minority. The writings of scripture refute Universalism so it’s impossible that the early church taught or believed such heresy.

I guess you must have missed what Hill said here. And by the way Schaff is a biblical historian.


"SIX THEOLOGICAL SCHOOLS

German theologian - Philip Schaff writes :“In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria…Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthageor Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine
on this subject is unknown.”

( The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge – Vol XII, Baker Book
House, 1950, p. 96.)"
 
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Pneuma3

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Both the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed state that Christ is coming again to judge the living and the dead.

ya we all know that, we simply believe he will be just in his judgment while you believe Jesus will eternally torment people in his presence.

In other words the tormentor for all eternity is none other then Jesus Christ.

What a horrible, horrible doctrine.
 
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Solomon Smith

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ya we all know that, we simply believe he will be just in his judgment while you believe Jesus will eternally torment people in his presence.

In other words the tormentor for all eternity is none other then Jesus Christ.

What a horrible, horrible doctrine.

Unfortunately Jesus Christ taught an eternal hell.
 
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