Ridiculous, the wicked do not go unpunished, they are destroyed after the appropriate punishment is administered according to His Justice, those that knew His Will and refused will receive More punishment than those that were less guilty.
You have it exactly backwards. Yours is the argument that appeals to emotion. That's all it's based on.
Yours is the sadistic doctrine. If they are to be destroyed completely what's the point of punishing them beforehand? That's truly sadistic.
Yeah, you know, except for all of those verses in Scripture that use the terms death, destroyed, consumed, burned up, perish - basically everything but eternal torment - when speaking of the fate of the unbelieving, just a few of which I cited in earlier posts. I am sure they were just hand-waved away, though, and anything new I bring up will also be. Nice try, though, son, just trying to put it out there that we conditionalists have nothing Scripturally, in hopes that the mere impact of the accusation alone will deter people from investigating and seeing for themselves that eternal conscious torment in hell actually barely has any backup from Scripture, and an abundance supporting conditional immortality.
I would say you understand it well.Read the last few verses in Isaiah 66 where it is a scene of what is taking place on the new earth.
Read Daniel 12:1-2 as to how others will rise to -shame and everlasting contempt/abhor.
I believe the wicked will be looked upon for eternity to remind the just to not sin against God Almighty!
their worm shall not die -I believe is the soul/spirit -not the body
I believe that only the body will die, but the wicked souls will suffer in the lake of fire for eternity.
Parts of the body can be cut off in the parable, then the person can still enter into life. Yet, the just will be viewing the wicked at specific times for eternity, and be abhorred at this. So, they would have to be seeing souls as the worm that does not die.
The OT tells how the wicked rich will die -and never see light.
The rich man in hell can never have mercy or go from his area to where the righteous are.
Isaiah 34 shows what will happen to the land of Edom-it becomes burning pitch.
Malachi wrote as to how God will have indignation against the people there - forever.
In the OT, the length of time of indignation by God against people/lands, animals is the time of torment.
That's just how you choose to interpret those words. In doing so you ignore all of the other words that say punishment is eternal.
What part of the punishment is eternal, because once the soul is destroyed, It is never coming back that you are unable to understand. Matthew 10:28 annihilated, nothing left ... Comprehension is fundamental.
That's just how you choose to interpret those words. In doing so you ignore all of the other words that say punishment is eternal.
Matthew 25:46 (NIV2011)
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
When you kill a fish and eat it, will you consider the fish in eternal punishment?
That's just how you choose to interpret those words. In doing so you ignore all of the other words that say punishment is eternal.
Matthew 25:46 (NIV2011)
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
When you kill a fish and eat it, will you consider the fish in eternal punishment?
What about when a fish eats a man, is he in hell/sheol Forever, like Jonah said that he was.
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto YHWH, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and Thou heardest my voice. Jonah 2:2
I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast Thou brought up my life from corruption, O YHWH my Elohim. Jonah 2:6
The only thing that comes to mind, as your question needs to be re-phrased, because I have no idea of what you are trying to say. OY VEY
Eternal punishment can simply mean "final". Hebrews 5:9 mentions "eternal salvation." Are we continuously being saved for all eternity?
The point is, annihilation violates even the basic concept of eternal punishment. In human conceptions, we don't call something annihilated in eternal punishment.
Intertestamental literature would disagree.
Intertestamental literature would disagree.
The point is, annihilation violates even the basic concept of eternal punishment. In human conceptions, we don't call something annihilated in eternal punishment.
Since you don't do links, and I don't answer diatribes that are unable to concisely make a point.
You evidently do not know the meaning of diatribe.That throw as much as possible against a wall, (of text) hoping that something sticks
One should not demand of others that which they cannot or will not do themselves.Pick your favorite verse that provers that the lost tortured for all eternity for sins committed in
What a modern Jew believes is irrelevant. I quoted from three unimpeachable historical Jewish sources; The Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. You ignored them and blew them off as a tirade.Less than 50% JewishNotGreek.com
Again I ask you to read through all of the articles here to see how unbiblical the concept of the immortality of the unsaved soul is. Immortality is reserved only for those who put their faith in Jesus (Yeshua). All the rest are destroyed (not preserved), (Matthew 10:28) after a period of time. They will suffer no more and no less than their sins deserve-then will be destroyed forever just as the Messiah foretold. And before you may falsely conclude that those who hold to Conditional Immortality believe the lost do not suffer at all for their sins, it is very obvious that they do.
- "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes." (Luke 12: 47-48)
The future they face on judgment day is 1) suffering in proportion for their sins “then 2) destruction. Yet all the lost will not receive same amount of suffering for their sins before they are destroyed. God will see that they receive the exact amount of "stripes" they deserve. Some (like Hitler) will receive very many "stripes." Others will receive "few" as Yeshua (Jesus) says. After they have received their appropriate "stripes," then they will "perish" as John 3:16 states. ("perish" or "apollumi" in Greek: be destroyed). The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23, Revelation 2:11), not eternal existence in torment. Ezekiel states clearly that "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4), and a plethora of other Bible verses and passages endorse this position.
Also, in regards to suffering, scripture seems to indicate that what the lost have suffered here on earth, for their sins, may actually count as partial payment then (Isaiah 40:2). Additionally, when we look at what Messiah Jesus did for us, in suffering for us, His suffering took place in this world, so it is clear that His suffering in this world will count as credit for believers in the next world. Because we believe that Jesus suffered and died for us here (and that is the gospel), therefore, it is a safe assumption to believe that unbelievers who suffer terribly in this life will have that suffering count towards the payment for their sins. This alone helps explain why some (not all) sinners suffer in this world. Better to pay for it here than there. However, do not believe for a moment that those who hold to Conditional Immortality believe there is no payment for those who have done evil in this life. There will be! Justice, in its proper amount, will be served. No more, no less, for God is Just.
Getting back to the concept of immortality. If you read John's gospel and think of the concept of immortality whenever you hear Jesus (Yeshua) speak of offering "life," it will make complete sense. I challenge you to read John's gospel and mentally insert the concept of "immortality" whenever you read of Jesus (Yeshua) offering "life." It makes complete sense.
Interestingly enough, it was the serpent who was first to suggest that sinners would not die, "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die" (Genesis 3:4). Sadly, this is the same lie being told today, that everyone lives forever. Therefore, apart from the gospel, there is no immortality. Please read next chapter: Are all souls born immortal?
www.zianet.com
Respected Messianic Rabbi, Loren Jacobs also correctly states:
The human soul is not immortal. The Torah teaches us that in the beginning man was banished from the Garden of Eden and forbidden to eat from the Tree of Life, so that he would not live forever, so that he would not be immortal. Mankind is headed toward death-the first death, followed by the Second Death. He is not, by nature, immortal. In 1 Timothy 6:15 16, Paul says that God alone possesses immortality-not us. In 1 Corinthians 15:53 the great Rabbi teaches that the redeemed will not become immortal until the time of their resurrection. "For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality." In other words, immortality is a gift of God which He gives in His grace to the redeemed at the time of their resurrection. In 2 Timothy 1:10, Paul states that because of the appearing of our Savior, Messiah Yeshua, He has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel. It is Yeshua who brings immortality to those who receive the Message of Salvation that He alone offers. There is no need to believe that most human beings will suffer eternally in hell if the human soul is not intrinsically immortal-and it isn't.
Source: What I Believe, What I Reject, Rabbi Loren
Another important point. In John 3:16, the word "perish" in the Greek is "apollumi." It is correctly translated many other times as "destroy" throughout the New Testament. Therefore, let's correctly understand John 3:16 as follows:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish (Gk: apollumi; be destroyed), but have everlasting life (i.e. immortality-knowing God).
Therefore, the proper biblical question is not, "Where will you be in eternity?" but "Will you have an eternity?"
Sadly, most of humanity will be destroyed on Judgment Day. They will not gain immortality. They will not gain life. Jesus states this plainly, "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal." John 12:25. It is life itself that we can "keep" or "lose." As a matter of fact God's choice to us is always "life" or "death" never "life in bliss" or "life in eternal torment." He always urges us to "choose life."
Scripturally, the choice is between destruction (not preservation in torment) and life!
(see Matthew 7:13-14, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8)
This is why Jesus (Yeshua) and the apostles and the Psalmist can all state:
James 4:12-"There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy..."
Matthew 7:13-14-"Broad the road that leads to destruction..."
2 Thessalonians 1:9-"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction"
Philippians 3:19-"Whose end is destruction"
Galatians 6:8-"...from that nature will reap destruction..."
Psalm 92:7-"...it is that they (i.e. all evil doers) shall be destroyed forever"
We could believe this article and the sources it quotes and go on our merry way or we could consult other sources or even do a study of our own as I have done.No. You have to make use of an unfamiliar term only shows your lack of an valid argument.
Put very plainly aiōnios is an adjective meaning “eternal, perpetual.” Among classical writers this especially refers to “endless time,” a period of time lasting “for an age” (Liddell-Scott). Together with aiōn (163) the term acquired philosophical overtones, especially beginning in the writings of Plato who developed the term along lines of “super-time, an idea of time in itself” (Guhrt, “Time,” Colin Brown, 3:827). Later, individuals and groups adopted this concept; this opened the door for even further speculations about time (ibid.). (See article on aiōn.)
Despite the rather singular meaning of aiōnios in both Biblical and nonbiblical sources, a fundamental difference exists between the classical/philosophical Greek concept of “eternity” and the Hebraic/Biblical attitude. Whereas the Biblical concept of eternity is an eternity filled with time, “endless time,” the philosophical, Greek notion knows only a “timeless eternity.” In eternity there is no such thing as time— no such thing as past, present, or future, only an eternal now. According to such thinkers as Plato everything in the created order belonged to the realm of time, while eternity was the exclusive territory of deity.
Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Alpha-Gamma.
Greek Strong's Number: 166
Greek Word: αἰώνιος
Transliteration: aiōnios
Phonetic Pronunciation:ahee-o'-nee-os
Root: from <G165>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 1:208,31
Part of Speech: adj
Vine's Words: Eternal, Everlasting
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
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