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Yes, nice hyperbolic encouragement that in no way means that everyone who has ever heard those words-whether or not they applied them to themselves-will necessarily be saved. And he and others also soundly counterbalance that sentiment with many warnings and admonitions-to believers.That’s not what you wrote originally.
But the Apostle Paul does tell us we can know we are children of God.
I suspect that most all of Christendom (if you read their official theologies, would agree that God is free to do what he wants. Sure, there are always fringe groups that really don't follow the Bible, but I'm talking the majority of mainline denominations.
If I say it wouldn't be fair of God to do X, it's because of what God says about himself in scripture, for example, that he is no respecter of individuals, but that Jesus died for all.
You are the one who said Reformed and Ariminan are the same on this issue. That's not even close to true. Calvinists say God did not choose to do anything because of his foreknowledge. In other words, if someone is decreed to damnation, it's not because God knew he would reject salvation (in reformed theology) up against Arminians saying God's decree is not prior to his foreknowledge.
Also a "good" exegesis may be wrong. I can say with pretty much certainty, and I think you agree with this, that no one has the perfect understanding of scripture.
Hey, thanks, Hazelelponi. By Reformed, I literally meant Calvinistic. Sorry I didn't clarify!
It just seems to be that what is often described as TULIP seems to have different meanings depending on who is describing or talking about it. I have heard some describe Total Depravity as meaning man's will and nature have no capacity at all to choose or want God prior to conversion, while others seem to say the opposite. Which makes me wonder if perhaps "TULIP" is not as useful a way of describing things as one might think, or if Calvin's actual theology was more nuanced than TULIP.
Yes, nice hyperbolic encouragement that in no way means that everyone who has ever heard those words-whether or not they applied them to themselves-will necessarily be saved. And he and others also soundly counterbalance that sentiment with many warnings and admonitions-to believers.
well friend the doctrines of grace were taught by the apostles so any synergistic views will not be consistent with what they taught.
all 5 coincide.Exactly which doctrine of grace are you referring to?
Here's a help note. Go to the Greek in John 15 and learn how the grammar works instead of listening to those who don't know it.
I guess in the flurry of "alerts" I overlooked yours. I don't bother with "Threads" here, just "alerts".
I Agree with him (Since it's God's WORD), but don't seek to totally understand what he's saying. The Bible CONSTANTLY talks of "OUR responsibilities". Reformed theology teaches that we don't have any.
What's being discussed is the "Reformed Paradigm", which, regardless of Reformed claims to the contrary, states that EVERYTHING is arbitrary - based on whether or not God "Without any moderating considerations", "Elects us" ("U") - i.e. Rom 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth"
And: Rom 9:18 "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth".
That's Arbitrary. Paul's answer is "unsatisfying": Rom 9:20 "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction"
i.e. It is what it is - deal with it.
And obviously, regardless of Reformed Theological weasel words, the "DIE WAS CAST" when Election occurred arbitrarily Thousands of years ago, and man had ZERO personal options at that point, no choices.
FANTASTIC!!! for the "Elect", and inconceivably horrendous, and totally hopeless for those Born only to be damned.
all 5 coincide.
From Eden until this day man's will is never completely in bondage to God, until he finally comes to that point by his choices in life, to where he authentically loves God with his whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and his neighbor as himself. Obedience then flows naturally, of its own accord. And we begin that process now, and He continues to be patient with us in working out our salvation as we cooperate with His grace. No fruit translates to no salvation.Salvation comes only one way!! That is through God's sovereign act in salvation, not ours. One can reject the call to repentance and always will if he's not convicted of his sin upon hearing the word of God. That is the act of the Holy Spirit. When one is convicted he will choose Christ because his will is in bondage to the new nature whereas it was in bondage to the old nature before regeneration wherein he could not please God. Nothing in scripture says that Just because you hear the word you will be saved. What it does say is whosever believes will have eternal life. Whoever does A will obtain B. It says nothing about who will ever believe. Only God knows that answer. All who come to believe had already been given to Jesus before the foundation of the world began- See John 6:37-44
all 5 coincide.
Arminians seemingly dont understand God's foreknowledge. That is why they conflate what the bible says regarding God's sovereign act in election with the idea that they can choose Christ while still in bondage to the sin nature. I was an Arminian for over 20 years and I know how this happens. Traditions and presuppositions. It wasn't until I dropped all of my presuppositions did God begin to open my eyes to the doctrines of grace and I hadn't even heard of John Calvin at that point.
There is either some reason or no reason (arbitrary), you cannot have it both ways is all I am saying and if it is not arbitrary than there is a reason for you over others and even not knowing the reason you can boast for having the unknown reason.No, we don't have a reason to boast even if we dont know why God chose who he determined to save. Why boast in salvation or the election thereof when you don't deserve it. The bible is very clear that we are not to boast of self but instead we are to boast only in the LORD ONLY and that is what those who follow reformed theology do. We give God all of the glory and take none of it for ourselves because without Him we are nothing and our deeds are as filthy rags. God's will is done on earth as it has already been done in heaven and mankind can't thwart the will of God..
Good Day, All
This Ligonier conference from 2015 in the QA session, attempts to answer this question.
.. “Once you understand the doctrines of grace, It’s like your breathing heavens air”
Anyone watching Sproul for a half hour or more (I've seen at this point about 20 hours I guess) would if they didn't have anything else to go on assume his church would have to be great. Of course we do have else to go on, namely the very same Word Sproul did so well at bringing to life in many lectures, but we have the entirety so that we could get to parts that of course could bring up some other aspect of the classic ideas in TULIP of instance as.......questionable. Some of them. (Not all)
Now, I was never placing my reliance or faith in a doctrine or a denomination.
Not ever.
Right?
So, it is not really of much importance then, finally. One could gain from the good stuff Sproul offers without having to buy all the theories from TULIP or such, of course. If one reads in the scriptures full books, they won't even have great gains from Sproul, but something more like en
In Him,
Bill
ok for instance, in the English we see the word hell used often in the NT and when folks see that, and from erroneous traditions from behind the pulpit, hear the term they often think of the lake of fire. However, in the Greek, the lake of fire is never referred to as what hell means in the greek. In the greek Hell is never the lake of fire but refers to either the place the damned souls reside before judgment but after physical death (aka Hades) or it can also mean Grave where the body returns to the ground after physical death. Context is key as to which is being referred. The lake of fire in the Greek is Limnene tou pryos, not Hades or the grave.What differences do the Greek translations make exactly?
implying that God is judging and punishing the unelected in the lake of fire for all eternity for failing to meet [impossible] expectations
Arbitrary means to decide to do something without reason. God has a reason for everything he does to include saving whom he saves and it is predicated upon the whole counsel of HIS will and his sovereign choice to save any of his creation he chooses. We don't have to know why God chose who he did. We just have to TRUST HIM that if we are saved he chose us in Christ BEFORE the foundation of the world began. His will has already been done in heaven and it will be done one earth in the same manner (according to the sovereign will of God).Jesus said it very clearly "I chose you you did not choose Me". I think the problem you have is that you have not yet accurately come to understand your place as a created one.
God never does anything without a reason. IF he did then yes he would be arbitrary. But God isnt arbitrary in anything he does. Jeremiah 29:11-13 debunks that idea. The problem seems to be that some just can't trust God for what he says in his word. It seems they need to be able to decipher something he may not want us to know right now. Instead of having to know how God does things and why has Ever occurred to you why we look through a glass darkly now but then face to face? God does not have to explain every detail as to what he does or how he does it and because his thoughts are higher than ours and we cant understand some of them right now.There is either some reason or no reason (arbitrary), you cannot have it both ways is all I am saying and if it is not arbitrary than there is a reason for you over others and even not knowing the reason you can boast for having the unknown reason.
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