Why are Rhema Pastors not held accountable?

[Jedi.Kep]

@ Jedi,

I am thinking about all this stuff. Our church is about 30 people now, and I am utterly unaccountable to a human. Well, not true, there is my wife, lol.

I want to set up a church board like discussed above, but there is only one man in the church I currently trust to be honest with me and not sugar coat things. You cannot have a board of one, because that just takes the power off the one pastor and puts it in the one board! So I have to wait until the church grows before I putrue a board in place, so I can put at least 5 people in the board.

It's a vulnerable feeling, but also freeing because there is no one I answer to but the Lord and it brings a beauty to your walk with Him.

Hey Brother. I'm glad to see you are willing to put accountability into place. True, a board of one is not much of a board, but I believe it would be better having one than none. With a small congregation, you don't need a huge group.

It is certainly not easy making yourself accountable. You have to trust people and sometimes, that is very difficult. I pray the Lord leads and guides you in that and I am sure that He will.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Did you get a hold of Doug Jones?

 

[Jedi.Kep]

Did you get a hold of Doug Jones?

If that question was directed at me, the answer would be, "No." My leaving this church and all the drama involved with it happened six years ago, and the church closed its doors last year. Contacting Doug Jones now is really pointless, although I did contact Rhema at that time and talked to someone there, but who that was I cannot say. I had a friend who graduated from there who also made mulitiple calls concerning the situation. Nothing was done, or if it was, I don't know about it.

Everything came to a point where I knew I could do nothing without dividing the church. There was nothing I could have done at all. As far as I'm concerned, I did everything by the book. I went to the pastor first, then to some friends, then to Rhema. None of them were willing to do anything. So I left the church on moral principle. Daddy worked things out my family. I'm in a fantastic church now and am glad to be there. My past church is nothing but a memory.

 

[lismore]

I'm in a fantastic church now and am glad to be there.

That's the most important thing then. To have found a good church now.

And forewarned is forearmed. Perhaps the Lord let you go through that past experience so that you can detect the warning signs early/ prevent anything untoward happening in your new church.

God Bless.

 

[Jedi.Kep]

That's the most important thing then. To have found a good church now.

And forewarned is forearmed. Perhaps the Lord let you go through that past experience so that you can detect the warning signs early/ prevent anything untoward happening in your new church.

God Bless.

Indeed. The Lord brought me through that experience for a reason. I am older and wiser for it. I hope I can be a blessing to someone.

 

[Tallen]

Your thinking in the wrong direction, make yourself accountable to other pastors outside of your fellowship. The biblical example is how the Apostle was accountable to the Elders at Jerusalem, and he held others accountable to one another a various churches.

Accountability is not necessarily something you put in place so you can trust them, as you mentioned above. It's something you place over your ministry for guidance and an objective way to judge you.

 

[Tallen]

Blessings, JK.

Sorry..., I just realized this forum was for wof.

 

[LinkH]

Your thinking in the wrong direction, make yourself accountable to other pastors outside of your fellowship. The biblical example is how the Apostle was accountable to the Elders at Jerusalem, and he held others accountable to one another a various churches.

Accountability is not necessarily something you put in place so you can trust them, as you mentioned above. It's something you place over your ministry for guidance and an objective way to judge you.

If we look at how church leadership was set up in the New Testament, we see that the apostles appointed a group of elders to pastor a local church. Paul and his coworkers had a 'measure of rule' in churches that started by them introducing the Gospel into a new region. Paul would give fatherly advice to elders in these churches.

But when Paul went to Jerusalem, a church not started through his ministry, probably among elders who were in Christ before him, he submitted to their advice.

There is also the issue of mutual submission. When the circumcision group confronted Peter about going into Cornelius's house--- even though Peter was right and he was an apostle, and probably the most obvious leader of the Twelve, Peter still had a submissive attitude in that he gave an answer for his actions.

In spite of the fact that Peter/Cephas was older and was probably in a position of high esteem, when it came to a matter of truth, Paul still pointed out his error 'before all.' The apostles had sent Barnabas to Antioch, and Barnabas had recruited Paul. But 'submission' did not cause Paul to compromise when it came to his duty to correct a brother who was erring.

 

[LinkH]

Zzub,

When it comes to boards, is there just one person who would not be a 'yes-man' or just one person who is Biblically qualified to be an elder? If there are men qualified to be elders, then why not let them serve. They might surprise you. They might toughen up a little in that new role.

Just something to consider subject to the leadership of the Spirit in the congregation of course.

 

[KingZzub]

Zzub,

When it comes to boards, is there just one person who would not be a 'yes-man' or just one person who is Biblically qualified to be an elder? If there are men qualified to be elders, then why not let them serve. They might surprise you. They might toughen up a little in that new role.

Just something to consider subject to the leadership of the Spirit in the congregation of course.

The church is simply not ready. Someone said to start a board of one, that is just nonsensical. The point of a board is to have the safety in numbers. It's to stop me if I get up and preach that you need to wear a Barney costume to get into heaven. It doesn't run the church, all it does is have the power to suspend or fire me if I commit a sin that could seriously destroy the church (normally sexual or financial), or if I teach a doctrine that is both a core issue and heretical.

If Carlton Pearson had a board like that, his church would still be going today rather than the implosive wreck it became.

 

[student4YHWH]

ignore this guy who told you not your buniness...he has an attitude!

You have a good reason to post. As long as you dont cause dispute in the WOF. Your post is pretty fine to me.

New here so it may be awhile before I see this post or any other posts......

I'd like for Rhema pastors to teach this entire chapter, not just a verse, if it takes a year or several years so what.......
1 Timothy 6 (English Standard Version)

1 Timothy 6

1 Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. 2Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved.

False Teachers and True Contentment

Teach and urge these things. 3If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, 7for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. 8But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. 9But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.Fight the Good Fight of Faith

11But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, 14to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. 17As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. 18They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, 19thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
20O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge," 21for by professing it some have swerved from the faith.

Grace be with you.

 

[student4YHWH]

Just imho, if this pastor continue practices which is against the Scripture and refuse to repent then I will just simply leave and find another good local church.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"In my experience of pentecostalism the pastor has the final say in all matters. There is no-one he can be held accountable to."

Depends on which "Version" of "Pentecostalism" you're talking about.

In the AoG, there are two different classes of domestic churches - "Affiliates", and "Sovereign Assemblies".

"Affiliates" are operated by, and answer to the District leadership in their area, who hold the totality of the authority in the church - they appoint the pastor, and serve as the governing board.

"Sovereign" bodies are "Franchises" which, on order to keep the right to display the AoG Logo, must operate according to the "16 fundamental truths" of the AoG, if they fail to do so, the AOG WILL "pull the papers" of the minster (if he's the one at fault), or revoke the franchise of a church if it refuses to operate according to denominational guidelines. A report to the District of sexual immorality would get the district presbyter in there RIGHT NOW, and if proven to be factual, the pastor would be OUTTA THERE before the next service.

Most Sovereign AoG churches operate under the authority of a Constitution and bylaws, generally Written by the church itself, and ratified by a majority vote of the congregation. Typically there's a governing "Deacon Board" which has the power to call, hire AND discharge the pastor for cause.

 

[plmarquette]

I believe if you call and discuss with Pastor Hagin or his staff they might be able to assist you...

some of this is "tedious" out of the blue, a parishoner calls about a pastor...
then one needs to confirm or refute the allegations, then there needs to be
a hearing, accounting, and discipline, not sure how to go about that...

Matthew 18.15-21 is restoration....

 

[Heavens]

Why not rather go the punishment route prescribed in scripture?

(2Co 2:6) Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
(2Co 2:7) So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
(2Co 2:8) Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

The punishment was carried out by the congregation for this fornication problem;

(1Co 5:4) In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(1Co 5:5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

(1Co 5:11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
(1Co 5:12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

(1Co 5:13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So why doesn't the congregation take this action?
Send me a bus ticket and I'll go rebuke him in love and set things straight there, in Christ's Name.

 

[DYOLF]

Yes, it's bold and in your face and it's time to deal with issues rather than sweep them under a rug.

Here's the story. There is a Rhema graduate who started a church in this little Pennslyvania town. I was there at the churches birth and attended there for 11 years.

Long story short, the Pastor of the church lost his wife to cancer. Horrible and tragic. Rather than take time off to grieve, the man continued to minister week after week. After about a year, rumors began to spread around the community about what this minister was doing with another man's wife. The Pastor essentially stole the wife of another man from the church.

It's easy to see what happened. Pastor lonely and missing his wife. Woman lonely and having maritial difficulties. Classic bait of Satan.

I did my homework and confronted this minister about it. He gave me the run around. Then after Sunday worship, this man announced what was gonig on and admitted what he had done and was going to continue to do.

I was horrified. I left the church. I made some contact with Rhema and a good friend of mine (who is also a Rhema graduate) contacted folks there as well. For the good of the man and the church, we both expected his credentials to be revoked. They should have been.

But Rhema did nothing and told my friend that they could do nothing. Not even revoke his credentials. This man's sin has spread to all the community. It leaves a poor witness on the church, Rhema, Jesus and Christianity, yet it is allowed to continue.

My question is simple. Why does Rhema allow blatent sin from those they have ordained? Why does Rhema do nothing? Can someone please explain to me why this man has not been removed from the Rhema listing of churches pastored by Rhema grads? Why has this pastor not been rebuked by someone in authority over him? Why does Rhema allow this cancer of actions to defame their own ministry?

Someone please explain this to me.

Disclaimer: I love Rhema and hope to go there someday, but this blemish needs to be dealt with.

since the church closed

 

[DYOLF]

Thank you for this explanation. This brings me much to think about and reconsider.

But I still have this nagging issue. Rhema still lists this pastor on it's list of churchs pastored by Rhema graduates. Someone gets the Word of Faith, visits this wayward pastor living fully in sin, and learns from his example. What then? Who's accountable? It seems like Rhema is putting a stamp of approval on the man's actions by continuing to include him in that list. I have a problem with that and think Rhema should at the very least remove the man's name from their 'list'.

since the church closed

 

[wretched]

Long story short, the Pastor of the church lost his wife to cancer. .

How is that possible? Did she not have enough faith to get healed or what? How did the pastor "explain" this?

 

[gratefulgrace]

I am surprised that you would look to Rhema to correct the situation and not the church board surely they must not approve of the situation. If they do then you are good to be out of there. Is there more to this that we are being told???

 

[gratefulgrace]

If that question was directed at me, the answer would be, "No." My leaving this church and all the drama involved with it happened six years ago, and the church closed its doors last year. Contacting Doug Jones now is really pointless, although I did contact Rhema at that time and talked to someone there, but who that was I cannot say. I had a friend who graduated from there who also made mulitiple calls concerning the situation. Nothing was done, or if it was, I don't know about it.

Everything came to a point where I knew I could do nothing without dividing the church. There was nothing I could have done at all. As far as I'm concerned, I did everything by the book. I went to the pastor first, then to some friends, then to Rhema. None of them were willing to do anything. So I left the church on moral principle. Daddy worked things out my family. I'm in a fantastic church now and am glad to be there. My past church is nothing but a memory.

Seems like the Lord took care of it then. I wonder how many got innoculated against Christianity in the meantime. gg