Why are most christians against asylum seekers?

And read Foxes Book of Martyrs, Tortured for Christ, China Cry, Charles Chiniquoy,
about the early Waldensians, and the early Anabaptists ("early" in both cases because later many fell away in apostasy),
"No Compromise" by Keith Green , and for health when possible - "Antoine Bechamp".

If you read any or all of these, and Revelation, Galatians, Matthew and Proverbs, Psalms and Genesis,

you will be blessed and at least have a chance to know the truth about those who live by faith.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

HEY! GOOD POST!
What was the result ? (Any remedy ?)
History is repeating itself ! (We need the remedy! )

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The LORD told him thus...

Ezekiel 2:5
5 As for them, whether they hear or whether they refuse—for they are a rebellious house—yet they will know that a prophet has been among them.

Ezekiel 3:7
7 But the house of Israel will not listen to you, because they will not listen to Me; for all the house of Israel are impudent and hard-hearted.

Ezekiel would be responsible if he was a coward and refused to speak the warning God pronounced to him.

Ezekiel 3:18-19
18 When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.

Luke17:37 said:

Do you deserve Christ's mercy?

I encourage you watch this five minute video about Christians in Syria:

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I do not deserve Christs mercy, no. Nobody does -but that video suggests that it's Gods will that we preach to ISIS, even if it means the death of our own families, including our children... It's appalling. This is not something I would ever be willing to do.

ISIS is not worth preaching to. Let them burn in hell forever. I dust my sandals off to them.

Good thing Elizabeth Elliot, and Corrie ten Boom, and Watchman Nee, and Paul, and Timothy, and all the disciples and all the martyrs
didn't think that way !

ISIS is a band of murderers and rapists. They worship Satan. They hate God and the Holy Spirit and they hate you if you're Christian. Anyone who thinks they can persuede ISIS in any way is a fool, and anyone who sacrifices their families, including their children for ISIS' sake, has helped ISIS and their father the devil.

South Bound said:

I did and determined it to be bovine skubulon.



That's because there are different roles for nations and individuals.



And the only way you can think of to show compassion and mercy is at the expense of America and Americans like my family and neighbors?

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From your response I get the impression that you aren't interested in discussing what I've said. I don't play with bovine skubulon, and that seems like an attempt to simply make me wrong. If all we're looking to do here is make each other right or wrong, that might feel really great but by engaging in that you are pleasing our enemy by engaging in divisive behavior. As Christians, I believe you are my brother and that one of the things I'm to do is love you. From that comes what I hope may bring positive change. The day could come where we find ourselves standing side by side and while the odds are definitely against it, I want to live by Christian principles that will leave me as ready as possible for that day if it comes. I'd like to wish the same for you.

Sultan Of Swing said:

Quoting Bible verses about compassion for sojourners as a guide to taking in migrants doesn't necessarily make that the 'Christian' way forward either.

Why would you extend a verse that's about personal compassion to government policy?

Does the government now have to 'love thy neighbour' and think about other countries above its own people?

This isn't how governments work. There are no easy Biblical solutions to how governments should respond to things like the migrant crisis. I cannot base my answer on theology because the Bible was not primarily written to address issues of civil governance, that is not what the Bible is for. There are valid concerns many Christians have with taking in these migrants. They are hardly based on 'philosophy' I'm not sure what that even means.

As Christians we are to love our neighbours, yes? If we perceive that taking in thousands of migrants could be a threat to our country, who do we prefer, the millions of neighbours we have in our own country or the few thousand neighbours who are travelling from miles away and can endanger the rest? While a Christian may be willing to sacrifice his well-being and safety to take in the sojourner, many others in the country are not, and they are also our neighbours whom we should seek to protect.

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I was trying to talk about this from the perspective of how we, as Christians, behave. I think I'm agreeing with you when I say that has absolutely nothing to do with what the government should, or does, do. I've also never intended to throw bible verses around to support an invalid opinion. I believe the biblical verses about showing compassion relate to the discussion about how Christians should be. Again, let me be clear that I'd never intentionally say anything about the bible being written to address civil governance. It looks to me like you and I may be in complete agreement there. Was your response based on me putting things in a way that looked like I was trying to say the bible should be used to direct government how to respond to refugees? If that's the case I hope you'll believe me when I say I don't feel that way in the least.

From your final paragraph, though, it looks like I may disagree with you regarding how our obedience to biblical directives could affect our neighbors, who we are to love. One reason we have the bible is that God uses it to let his people know how he wants us to behave. There will almost certainly be cases where we just don't understand why God tells us to take a certain approach to something. Regarding the matter of compassion for strangers and refugees, though, that looks like a clear directive to me. It's something that I think sets God's people apart for one thing. It's also a reflection of his mercy and kindness.

I don't believe we're told to obey -any- of his instructions only if doing so will be okay with or, good for, our neighbors. We are responsible for our obedience to God's teaching. We're also responsible for helping our brothers and sisters but that's not really where I'm going with this. I believe I am responsible directly to God, and will one day face him one to one and clearly see where I've pleased him and where I haven't. I believe I'm to show compassion to "strangers and refugees" without being concerned how my choice to obey may affect others. I can hope to set a positive example but I can't rightly decide not to obey (which, by the way, would be a deliberate choice with real consequences) because of how my obedience might affect my neighbors (a choice made over what I imagine -might- happen).

Landon Caeli said:

True, but when we take into consideration our children, and our childrens childrens future, we want to assure that we make good prudential judgements for them before anyone else. It's a parental responsibility.

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I agree completely. What I'm concerned about is the possibility of choosing the wrong way when faced with difficult decisions. There will certainly be times where we're not sure what God wants us to do and we may make mistakes under those conditions. Regarding obeying what we do know God wants from us, though, I believe we make a mistake if we choose not to obey because we fear for family, children, or anything else. I believe that's one the places our enemy is very pleased to take us.

MWood said:

There is a process of filling out an application. If the truth is told.

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Right. Because anyone posing an actual threat wouldn't dream of lying on an application. Killing as many innocents as possible in a suicide bombing? Sure. But lying on a government form? Surely even ISIS wouldn't do something so terrible!

Landon Caeli said:

I do not deserve Christs mercy, no. Nobody does -but that video suggests that it's Gods will that we preach to ISIS, even if it means the death of our own families, including our children... It's appalling. This is not something I would ever be willing to do.

ISIS is not worth preaching to. Let them burn in hell forever. I dust my sandals off to them.

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Jesus said to love our enemies, pray for those who persecute us, to forgive people who sin against us, to love Him more than we love even our spouse, parents, and children; and be willing to lose our lives (even physically) for His sake. This is a supernatural life Jesus calls us to. I urge you to repent and ask God to supernaturally change you.

Matthew 24:9-12
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

It sounds easy to be one of those "many"--but those many will end up in torment themselves.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

We deserve eternity in hell, a real place of incredible heat and pain. It's not our job to withhold forgiveness or wish anyone to hell.

In Matthew 18, Jesus teaches us about forgiveness:

Matthew 18:23-35
23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Sometime recently a Christian was about to be beheaded because they refused to deny Christ. And they gave their executioner their Bible and forgave them in advance for their murder. And after beheading the man, the Islamist read the Bible and ended up becoming a Christian. In due time, the executioner-turned-Christian may find a blade at his own neck, but he is willing to follow Jesus anyway. This is what the gospel is all about. Jesus came for anyone--even the most vile sinners--if they would repent and believe and follow Him.

Here's a true story of another. His name is "Khalil." I read his story in great detail in a book called Into the Den of Infidels. His is one of five testimonies put into a film called More Than Dreams.

http://morethandreams.org/the-dreams/the-story-of-khalil/

Given the right circumstances, I could have been a member of ISIS. If I were born in the middle east 20 years ago to a Muslim family. . . In other words, I am no better than any of them. "There but for the grace of God go I". . .

Having said that, we don't just throw caution to the wind in dealing with this situation.

martinlb said:

I want to live by Christian principles

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That nations have borders and have the authority to defend those border, enforce the law, and protect their citizens from foreign invaders is a Biblical principle.

South Bound said:

That nations have borders and have the authority to defend those border, enforce the law, and protect their citizens from foreign invaders is a Biblical principle.

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Yup.

Exodus 23:31
Acts 17:26
Deuteronomy 32:8
Nehemiah 9:22
Psalm 74:17
Proverbs 15:25
Exodus 34:24

Landon Caeli said:

ISIS is a band of murderers and rapists. They worship Satan. They hate God and the Holy Spirit and they hate you if you're Christian. Anyone who thinks they can persuede ISIS in any way is a fool, and anyone who sacrifices their families, including their children for ISIS' sake, has helped ISIS and their father the devil.

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Maybe the only ones persuading ISIS members themselves are the Christians in captivity or Christians they are killing. However, while I agree that ISIS is deceived by Satan, the members aren't Satan themselves--they are individuals who God created who have been deceived--just like we were. I have heard of ISIS fighters becoming Christians. The offer of salvation is to any and all. Nobody is too evil to be an exception to "all" or "anyone."

Luke 21:12-19
12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls.

I believe the time will come in my lifetime when this passage will be fully realized, even in America and the other nations that currently have freedom to worship Christ. I am deeply concerned that many in the American Church won't be able to withstand the persecution, false doctrines and evil and will fall away from the faith. That will be devastating. As Christians, we don't have inalienable rights to a comfortable life. Sharing in the life of Christ means sharing in His sufferings (Philippians 1:29). Jesus told us to expect persecution for His name's sake (John 15:18-21, Matthew 5:10-12).

Now I expect our government to use some locks and oversight. But when that fails (or when the government refuses to do so... e.g., the current president), and when we individually meet Muslims on American soil (whether refugees, immigrants, or other Americans) or any other soil for that matter, I know we are supposed to love them, pray for them, and share Christ with them. Even if they kill us? Even if they kill us.

I have some personal experience in this area. After Hurricane Katrina I was homeless for ten years. One day I was a fire captain with 8 years on the department (Fireman of the Year in 1989) with an 1800 square foot house, a mini-van and a Fiat sports car, and a 30 foot sailboat sitting in the marina. The day after Katrina, I was standing in a line with 300 other homeless people waiting for one roll of toilet paper for a family of four. Wasn't I compensated by Insurance for all that stuff ? Sure I got a $1,500 dollar check from AllState before they bailed on everyone in Louisiana. Since my home was now re-designated as being located in a flood zone, I had to pay to raise it 25 feet in the air on pilings in order to qualify for any government hurricane assistance.

Initially, the churches in Houston responded with amazing generosity towards New Orleans refugees. They allowed tent camping on their property, provided wonderful meals, cloths and other forms of support. After about 12 months, the charity dried up and disappeared completely, even despite, or perhaps because of the reality the possibility of refugees returning to New Orleans was virtually nill. You couldn't even fill a one gallon jug from a church water spigot without being threatened with trespassing and theft. These conditions forced me to leave the Houston area two years after Katrina. My now ex-wife returned to California with the two step-kids to live with her mother.

Every city and town I passed through for the next ten years had an extremely hostile homeless policy. I was constantly being brutalized by police, and forced out of town onto BLM land where I had to live in a tent. Stays on BLM land are limited to 14 days, then you have to relocate 30 miles distance to another BLM in order to be legal. Believe me, when you exited a BLM, you were monitored the whole time you were walking.

Most inner city (inter-faith) shelters were deplorable. Bed bug infested mattresses and pillows, feces on the floor of cold water showers. Nowhere safe to lock up your belongings. Spend a week in a shelter, loose everything to theft and start over again. Drug dealers were ignored and conducted business openly on shelter property everywhere.

In Albuquerque New Mexico the shelter guards actually allowed the drug dealers to carry guns into the shelter and break into the front of the food lines. Everyone has to make a living I suppose and drug dealers can't be bothered with standing in line. Seems the guards and shelter workers were being paid off by the drug dealers, that's the story I heard anyway.

In every Christian Inter-faith shelter I stayed in, I saw cloths donations come in the front door and go straight out the back, loaded into the cars of shelter employees, their friends, or second hand store owners. Not a bad racket. Give a tax exemption right off for donations, and second hand store owners mark the donations up to 70 % of retail and resell the stuff. Meanwhile, the homeless are suffering from exposure and frost bite injury.
Shelters that handled food donations to the underprivileged, spent all afternoon loading boxes of food into Cadillac Escalades, Toyota SUV's and Lincoln Town Cars. It works the same way at most Christian soup kitchens. Donated boxes of steak are unloaded by grocer trucks and stored inside freezers, and that's the last time you ever see it again. The soup kitchens even ask the homeless to help as volunteers and unload the trucks. Sometimes you're asked to load the boxes of meat from the freezers into the Town cars. Some nerve, huh ?

After leaving Houston, for the next ten years, I was only approached personally three times by people who identified themselves as Christians and offered to help. The most extravagant gift I received was a new pair of hiking boots purchased at a nearby Walmart Store by a woman. The rest of the time, I might as well have been a ghost. Nobody ever looked me in the eye. They sort of looked through you. Like you weren't there.

Are any of you aware Jesus and his disciples were homeless guys ??? "Inasmuch as you have done this to the least of those among you, you have also done it to me", (Matthew 25:40-45). Good luck with that when you find yourselves face to face with him.

stephen583 said:

Are any of you aware Jesus and his disciples were homeless guys ???

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That's a stretch. Twenty first century homelessness and what Jesus and the boys were are oranges and apples.

...and there really is no evidence that Jesus and his disciples were homeless. There has long been a suggestion that they all had homes to return to. John, for example, was told by the Lord from the Cross to take Mary into his home, and he did so.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Good thing Elizabeth Elliot, and Corrie ten Boom, and Watchman Nee, and Paul, and Timothy, and all the disciples and all the martyrs
didn't think that way !

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And yet Jesus was God. And he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And there were communities or tribes of people whom God sent the Israelite's against in the old testament. Therefore, all those who followed Jesus and his teachings from the new testament are following the same God that sanctioned that in the old.

I don't know how to reply to such misdirection.