Why are Mormons so afraid of others.

[bbbbbbb]

It's not really my allegation. I just don't like people making such generalized allegations based on a fluke. Actually your map shows Utah to have lower rates of depression than many other states. If there are those seeking therapy after leaving the church, maybe it is because they have not found God like they thought they would.

As a counter to your map, I again show a nationwide map of suicide rates in the U.S. They are generally highest in the Rocky Mountain states - regardless of religious affiliation:

Thanks. I think we can conclude that there is not a strong link between clinical depression and suicide based on these maps. So, what we see from your map is that folks in mountainous states seem to be committing suicide more often even though fewer are clinically depressed.

To give a bit more perspective here is a world map showing relative suicide rates.

As you can see, Russia seems to have the highest rate, even though it is not a mountainous nation.

 

[Moodshadow]

FLDS is Plano, Texas. Nah. I lived in Dallas 20 years and toured the Temple when dedicated. Plano an expression of Big D not Big Love. Were most of the patients women. I could see that being the case.

Plano is an affluent just north of Dallas where the median income is close to $80,000. (A number of the Dallas Cowboys have built their mansions there - woo-hoo.) Last time I heard, there were at least six wards there. Dr. Steve, the doctor did not share with me the gender proportion of his LDS patients; he was appropriately circumspect, and our conversation about it did not go into that much detail, as it should be.

 

[Anto9us]

Moodshadow -- I am aware that the therapist's 25% was not limited to "missionaries" - but were simply "unhappy Mormons/recovering Mormons" or such...

For 15 years, I lived in Garland - a "not as affluent" suburb/adjoining township of Dallas - Plano and Garland used to be their own towns, but expansion meshed all these into essentially part of "Dallas" - I mean, you can't really tell where "Dallas ends" and "Garland" or "Plano" begins -- except for a sign...

Anyway -- what is Flds?

How come LDS - when confronted with something - say "Oh, that's NOT REALLY US" -- that's (whatever letter)LDS - not the "real thing"

and in the same breath mutter "splintered Christianity in need of restoration" - "30,000 denominations" etc etc

rolleyes

 

[Moodshadow]

Moodshadow -- I am aware that the therapist's 25% was not limited to "missionaries" - but were simply "unhappy Mormons/recovering Mormons" or such... (I'm going to get yelled at by someone for putting this in with your text, but I don't know how else to answer so many different things - sorry.) Yes, you are correct about that, but someone else made what seemed to be a skewed inference, and that's why I said what I did. Was not intending to accuse anyone, for sure.

For 15 years, I lived in Garland - a "not as affluent" suburb/adjoining township of Dallas - Plano and Garland used to be their own towns, but expansion meshed all these into essentially part of "Dallas" - I mean, you can't really tell where "Dallas ends" and "Garland" or "Plano" begins -- except for a sign... Yes again - but don't you think that's pretty much true of most large urban areas now? They grow so fast the boundaries blur. Where I live, you can drive on the same street for many miles and never turn, but the cotton-pickin' thing changes names three times because it passes through that many different municipalities. It makes it hard when we're trying to direct people who don't live here.

Anyway -- what is Flds? FUNDAMENTAL Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. These are the people who made such huge headlines a while back when their very sequestered Central Texas compound was raided by local authorities and CPS because it was discovered that Warren Jeffs, their "prophet," had taken numerous very young girls as his "wives" and was aiding and abetting his male followers in doing the same. It made for sensational and lurid reading, all right, and ended with Jeffs being sent to prison and ultimately the compound being abandoned (I think). The people have not all abandoned the religion, however; they've just moved to other places - Nevada, maybe? I forget where. Someone else here can help us out with that, if anyone really cares...

How come LDS - when confronted with something - say "Oh, that's NOT REALLY US" -- that's (whatever letter)LDS - not the "real thing" Because technically it's really not the same thing, though they all believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, and they all got their start that way. The mainstream SLC LDS church totally disavows any offshoot, and probably the others feel the same way about the Utah church.

and in the same breath mutter "splintered Christianity in need of restoration" - "30,000 denominations" etc etc Let's face it: we human beings are narrow-minded because our perspective and knowledge and understanding are very limited. Hypocrisy will never go away, no matter how much we want it to. At least not until the Savior returns and establishes truth and order and peace on the earth... (End of Sermonette No. 379, and thank you for "listening.")

 

[Der Alte]

Moodshadow -- I am aware that the therapist's 25% was not limited to "missionaries" - but were simply "unhappy Mormons/recovering Mormons" or such...

(I'm going to get yelled at by someone for putting this in with your text, but I don't know how else to answer so many different things - sorry.) Yes, you are correct about that, but someone else made what seemed to be a skewed inference, and that's why I said what I did. Was not intending to accuse anyone, for sure.

For 15 years, I lived in Garland - a "not as affluent" suburb/adjoining township of Dallas - Plano and Garland used to be their own towns, but expansion meshed all these into essentially part of "Dallas" - I mean, you can't really tell where "Dallas ends" and "Garland" or "Plano" begins -- except for a sign...

Yes again - but don't you think that's pretty much true of most large urban areas now? They grow so fast the boundaries blur. Where I live, you can drive on the same street for many miles and never turn, but the cotton-pickin' thing changes names three times because it passes through that many different municipalities. It makes it hard when we're trying to direct people who don't live here.

Anyway -- what is Flds?

FUNDAMENTAL Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. These are the people who made such huge headlines a while back when their very sequestered Central Texas compound was raided by local authorities and CPS because it was discovered that Warren Jeffs, their "prophet," had taken numerous very young girls as his "wives" and was aiding and abetting his male followers in doing the same. It made for sensational and lurid reading, all right, and ended with Jeffs being sent to prison and ultimately the compound being abandoned (I think). The people have not all abandoned the religion, however; they've just moved to other places - Nevada, maybe? I forget where. Someone else here can help us out with that, if anyone really cares...

How come LDS - when confronted with something - say "Oh, that's NOT REALLY US" -- that's (whatever letter)LDS - not the "real thing"

Because technically it's really not the same thing, though they all believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, and they all got their start that way. The mainstream SLC LDS church totally disavows any offshoot, and probably the others feel the same way about the Utah church.

and in the same breath mutter "splintered Christianity in need of restoration" - "30,000 denominations" etc etc

Let's face it: we human beings are narrow-minded because our perspective and knowledge and understanding are very limited. Hypocrisy will never go away, no matter how much we want it to. At least not until the Savior returns and establishes truth and order and peace on the earth... (End of Sermonette No. 379, and thank you for "listening.")

You can place quote tags around each section you want to address separately. Block the text. Place your mouse at one end of the text, left click and hold, move the mouse to the other end of the text, release the button then click the quote icon next to the hashtag # at the top of the reply window. Or you can type the quote tags around the text like this [quote]text[/quote] and it will display as

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[Ironhold]

Don't know if this link was posted earlier or not, but here goes.

There's a hypothesis - and one which is gaining traction - which holds that the thinner oxygen in higher environs changes the production of serotonin and dopamine in the brain.

People who are susceptible to depression often have harder times in higher locations, while people who have issues with hyperactivity may experience reduced symptoms.

 

[drstevej]

Ah it's the altitude. Any EVIDENCE to fit the HYPOTHESIS?

 

[drstevej]

Here are the highest 100 cities in the US and NONE are in Utah...

Top 100 highest located cities

 

[drstevej]

Salt Lake City is 4,327 feet

The 100th hightest city is 7,544 feet

Nice try.

 

[Ironhold]

Ah it's the altitude. Any EVIDENCE to fit the HYPOTHESIS?

Read the article.

Not only did the guy look at the US, he also looked at two other nations and found consistent results.

 

[drstevej]

Since moving to Utah in 2008, Renshaw has found mounting statistical, scientific and anecdotal support for his theory. If Renshaw's theory holds true, his work represents a major step forward in solving a long-standing mental health mystery.

Yeah this is convincing. Annecdotes. Mounting statistics... And still Utah is 3,ooo feet lower than the 100th highest city in the US.

And this is not exactly a peer-reviewed article. It is cited by a person described as...

Theresa is the editor of Brain.Mic. A Brooklyn-based journalist, she writes about health, behavior and justice. Her work has appeared on Salon.com, JJIE, and The Atlantic.com.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Don't know if this link was posted earlier or not, but here goes.

There's a hypothesis - and one which is gaining traction - which holds that the thinner oxygen in higher environs changes the production of serotonin and dopamine in the brain.

People who are susceptible to depression often have harder times in higher locations, while people who have issues with hyperactivity may experience reduced symptoms.

Been there, done that. It would save you some embarrassment if you would read through the thread before posting.

Here is the map of the United States showing relative levels of clinical depression. As you can see, the statistics do not support your theory. Colorado has an unusually low rate of clinical depresseion despite the fact that it is mostly high mountains.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Read the article.

Not only did the guy look at the US, he also looked at two other nations and found consistent results.

Read the posts. You will see a world map I posted showing relative rates of suicide. Russia has an extremely high rate and it is a relatively low-altitude country.

 

[Ironhold]

Read the posts. You will see a world map I posted showing relative rates of suicide. Russia has an extremely high rate and it is a relatively low-altitude country.

Russia's also a rat hole whose sufferings under Communism were amplified by the chaotic shift to capitalism and the shenanigans of the Putin regime.

Among other things, Russia is the 4th "drunkest" country on the planet according to CBS News - 25. Latvia - 25 drunkest countries in the world - Pictures - CBS News - with the average Russian consuming 4.16 gallons / person. If you'll note, many of the other countries on that list are former Soviet satellite states, and some of them come up high on the list of suicides as well. As you may recall, alcohol is a major contributor in suicides.

 

[Moodshadow]

My heart goes out to anyone living under the rule of Putin. No wonder they keep themselves insensate - who could blame them?

I've done zero research about this idea, so I'm asking those of you who have: what about the people of Switzerland and Austria, two countries with very high mountains? Or Peru? Or Nepal? According to statistics, are these people clinically depressed, too?

 

[drstevej]

I visited E Germany before the wall came down and it was easy to see how the hopelessness of living under communism would make alcohol a way to escape.

Now, the altitude of Moscow is 514 feet so they should be happy campers.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Russia's also a rat hole whose sufferings under Communism were amplified by the chaotic shift to capitalism and the shenanigans of the Putin regime.

Among other things, Russia is the 4th "drunkest" country on the planet according to CBS News - 25. Latvia - 25 drunkest countries in the world - Pictures - CBS News - with the average Russian consuming 4.16 gallons / person. If you'll note, many of the other countries on that list are former Soviet satellite states, and some of them come up high on the list of suicides as well. As you may recall, alcohol is a major contributor in suicides.

Okay, you dismissed Russia. Are you implying that folks living in high elevations in the world are also alcoholics suffering under repressive regimes, which led them to suicide?

What would you say about India? As far as I know India is not a mountainous country nor are Indians alcoholics at all nor is the Indian government (a democracy) represssive.

 

[Moodshadow]

Yes. There are many different ways to define "poor," aren't there, many of which have nothing whatsoever to do with money and could profoundly affect a person's state of personal well-being. In fact, not having enough money and still being one's own master is far preferable to being wealthy and enslaved to the ideas of dishonorable people. That would be seriously depressing.

 

[Ironhold]

My heart goes out to anyone living under the rule of Putin. No wonder they keep themselves insensate - who could blame them?

I've done zero research about this idea, so I'm asking those of you who have: what about the people of Switzerland and Austria, two countries with very high mountains? Or Peru? Or Nepal? According to statistics, are these people clinically depressed, too?

He also looked at Korea and Austria, and in so doing found a similar pattern.

 

[Ironhold]

Okay, you dismissed Russia. Are you implying that folks living in high elevations in the world are also alcoholics suffering under repressive regimes, which led them to suicide?

No, I'm saying "Your attempted dodge failed because you didn't consider a different variable which might also be at work in this specific region."