Why are Manger scenes not graven images?

PaulAckermann · Dec 7, 2006

Many Protestants (not all) condemn us Catholics for having "graven images", which are condemned in the Bible.

And yet these same Protestants have manger scenes on their lawns and even in their churches. Why is it wrong to have a statue of Mary, Joseph, or Jesus unless it is in a manger scene at Christmas time?

sunlover1 · Dec 7, 2006

PaulAckermann said:
Many Protestants (not all) condemn us Catholics for having "graven images", which are condemned in the Bible.

And yet these same Protestants have manger scenes on their lawns and even in their churches. Why is it wrong to have a statue of Mary, Joseph, or Jesus unless it is in a manger scene at Christmas time?

Very good question.

Do you bow before these things?
When I was a child, raised Catholic, I was taught to kneel before these things at the stations of the cross (something like that).
I can't remember exactly what or why now.

I (no longer catholic) have a picture of Jesus on my wall and I do have a protestant friend who has told me it is a sacrilige.

So I too, would love to hear comments.

sunlover

RenHoek · Dec 7, 2006

Because they are not being prayed to or worshiped. If that occurs, then you have a God substitute/graven image

eoe · Dec 7, 2006

So who here would take a baby Jesus statue out of a nativity scene and use it as a chock block for your truck? Anyone? Would that be disrespectful?

eoe · Dec 7, 2006

Because they are not being prayed to or worshiped.

So how is that different from an icon? Those are not prayed to or worshiped either.

jad123 · Dec 7, 2006

PaulAckermann said:
Many Protestants (not all) condemn us Catholics for having "graven images", which are condemned in the Bible.

And yet these same Protestants have manger scenes on their lawns and even in their churches. Why is it wrong to have a statue of Mary, Joseph, or Jesus unless it is in a manger scene at Christmas time?

This is an excellent question. I am a former Catholic and I always got a chuckle about this from a Protestant side. Is a cross not a graven image? Is that fish people stick on their car not a graven image? Is Christian art a graven image? I see people in many different Protestant churches kneel before the cross in their church.

PaulAckermann · Dec 7, 2006

RenHoek said:
Because they are not being prayed to or worshiped. If that occurs, then you have a God substitute/graven image

By that definition (which I agree with), then Catholics do not have graven images. I and no other Catholic who I know pray to or worships a statue. We use the statue as a devotional aid while praying.

Peaceful Dove · Dec 7, 2006

I love it!
I actually think Protestants do worship the Nativity scene and pray to it, the cross, too.

Oblio · Dec 7, 2006

PD said:
I actually think Protestants do worship the Nativity scene and pray to it, the cross, too.

JP said:
um...nope! Not me! I don't do that at all.

Tonks · Dec 7, 2006

Where is that "cognitive dissonance" smilie when you need it...?????

Sothron · Dec 7, 2006

I've always wondered why people are iconoclasts and yet the Cross itself is an icon or "graven image" that is considered a holy symbol by almost all Christians. So why is it ok to love that "Old Rugged Cross" and yet despise icondules or Catholics?

Has anyone ever heard a Christian of any faith state they are actually worshipping a statue or icon or some other depiction of Christianity? If it wasn't such a divisive issue among Christians I would laugh at the folly of it all.

CaliforniaJosiah · Dec 7, 2006

jad123 said:
This is an excellent question. I am a former Catholic and I always got a chuckle about this from a Protestant side.

Me, too

outhwaar · Dec 7, 2006

It seems that several Protestants here find it absurd that someone would suggest that they worship their nativity scenes. Where would anyone get such an idea? They seem to be deeply offended at the suggestion.

Now you know what it feels like.

HiredGoon · Dec 7, 2006

I believe nativity scenes fall under the 2nd Commandment prohibition. I think there are two kinds of prohibition here: 1. Images of God, 2. Images used in worship. In my opinion, natitvity scenes fall under the 1st prohibition since they depict a baby Jesus. And yes, I think it is inconsistant to object to images used in RC and EO worship, yet have images of God of your own. It might not be used for worship, but as an image of God, it's still prohibited.

UBERROGO · Dec 7, 2006

icxn said:
Contrary to scripture...

Exalt ye the Lord our God, and worship the footstool of His feet; for He is holy. (Ps. 99:5)

What translation is this?

This is what I got....

Psa 99:5 Exalt ye the LORD our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy.

icxn · Dec 7, 2006

UBERROGO said:
What translation is this?

This is what I got....

Mine from the Greek LXX (Psalm 98 actually):

ὑψοῦτε κύριον τὸν θεὸν ἡμῶν καὶ προσκυνεῖτε τῷ ὑποποδίῳ τῶν ποδῶν αὐτοῦ, ὅτι ἅγιός ἐστιν. (Ps. 98:5)

The bolded words translate "of His feet."

UBERROGO · Dec 7, 2006

icxn said:
Mine from the Greek LXX (Psalm 98 actually):

ὑψοῦτε κύριον τὸν θεὸν ἡμῶν καὶ προσκυνεῖτε τῷ ὑποποδίῳ τῶν ποδῶν αὐτοῦ, ὅτι ἅγιός ἐστιν. (Ps. 98:5)

The bolded words translate "of His feet."

Time to dig out the old interlinear!

JTLauder · Dec 7, 2006

I can state as a fact that I have never attended a church where we set up a nativity scene, though there have been nativity plays people or kids perform for Christmas. Actually, in my life, I may have only ever seen one church I've passed by that ever had a nativity scene in front of the church.

The only place I've ever seen it set up inside or outside a church regularly is in the movies or on TV.

icxn · Dec 7, 2006

UBERROGO said:
Time to dig out the old interlinear!

And don't neglect the commentaries of the Church Fathers. Anyway to be more precise the footstool refers primarily to Christ's flesh but St. John Chrysostom (among others - probably ) accepts both interpretations as valid.

However the word worship used here, προσκυνω, has a slightly different connotation. Bow down would probably be a better translation or perhaps venerate.

UBERROGO · Dec 7, 2006

PaulAckermann said:
What group think that God is little ceramic statues?????

Is there a First God As Ceramic Statue Church?

The Canaanites?

Why are Manger scenes not graven images?

PaulAckermann

Guest

Beloved, Let us love one another

What eeeeeez it man?!

eoe

Guest

eoe

Guest

Veteran

PaulAckermann

Guest

Peaceful Dove

Guest

Creed or Chaos

No longer here

Humble Orthodox Christian

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Old School Presbyterian

Senior Member

Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα

Senior Member

Senior Member

Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα

Senior Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency