Why are Christians so incredibly deceived about scripture?

[BobRyan]

Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition in the CC go hand in hand buddy. !

That is what the Jews said in Mark 7:6-13 -- Christ demonstrated to them where they had made an error.

============== the details ====================
Notice what Jesus said about the obligation of others - when it comes to the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments

Matthew 23:2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Matthew 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

 

[Goatee]

The sheep of the SHEPHERD KNOW Y'SHUA'S VOICE and follow HIM ,
we will not ever follow a butcher or anyone else.
Anyone can be sola scripture or whatever and not follow Y'SHUA and end up on the wide road to destruction with all the others;
but the true sheep who are called and chosen by HIM, follow HIM,
as HE SAYS. (as it says clearly in HIS WORD).

Thus, for anyone who wants to find life, life abundantly, truth and eternal life,
HE is the ONE to seek this from; not man and all man's distractions opposed to YHWH'S WORD; not all man's or demon's voices ; not any of them, ever.

Be very careful my friend that the voice you hear is not the devils! Be very careful indeed. You are a sheep on its own, in the wilderness. Prone to lone wolves!

Pray for guidance buddy. God bless you

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I trust in Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition.

Yes, but most Catholics I have encountered do not share your attitude on sin and salvation, though. They promote holiness as a part of salvation. You attitude on sin and salvation sounds like Eternal Security (i.e. a sin and still be saved type belief), which is a popular false teaching in Protestantism.


....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So then you recommend "Sola scriptura" AND "prayer"? What made you think it was done any other way?

Tradition ! Tradition ! (tradition that requires rejecting Scripture and prayer to YHWH in Y'SHUA) (because of the inherent conflicts / opposition / irreconcilable differences) .

 

[Goatee]

So then you recommend "Sola scriptura" AND "prayer"? What made you think it was done any other way?

Sola Scripture can be dangerous buddy. I would rather be led through the Holy Church. The church of Jesus, the CC.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Be very careful my friend that the voice you hear is not the devils! Be very careful indeed. You are a sheep on its own, in the wilderness. Prone to lone wolves!

Jesus NEVER says this. Only the devil would say this to you.

Jesus' Sheep KNOW HIS VOICE and TRUST HIM and follow HIM.
THIS is what JESUS SAYS ALWAYS.

 

[BobRyan]

Sola Scripture can be dangerous buddy.

You keep saying that - and then saying prayer is also needed.

I would rather be led through the Holy Church. The church of Jesus, the CC.

hint: We all say that about our own denominations -- still we know not to go too far down that road - because of Mark 7:6-13, Acts 17:11 and of course - Galatians 1:6-9

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I would rather be led through the Holy Church. The church of Jesus, the CC.

You have said this often.

You chose that ,
instead of listening to JESUS the SHEPHERD DIRECTLY, (you said just recently),
and what you chose is often opposed to JESUS and GOD'S WORD DIRECTLY.

 

[Goatee]

That is what the Jews said in Mark 7:6-13 -- Christ demonstrated to them where they had made an error.

============== the details ====================
Notice what Jesus said about the obligation of others - when it comes to the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments

Yes, correct. Jesus was on about 'tradition', not 'Tradition'. Sacred Tradition is very much different. Sacred Tradition in the CC is very much different as it come directly from the Apostles. Led by the Holy Spirit.

So glad you pointed that out my friend. God bless you

 

[-57]

So you can sin as freely as you like then?

Technically ...YES...

Now here's your problem...if you die with any unforgiven sin..ANY...you will no go to heaven. So, you better hope all of your sins are forgiven...past, present and future.

 

[Goatee]

Yes, but most Catholics I have encountered do not share your attitude on sin and salvation, though. They promote holiness as a part of salvation. You attitude on sin and salvation sounds like Eternal Security (i.e. a sin and still be saved type belief), which is a popular false teaching in Protestantism.


....

Rubbish as Catholic dont believe in once saved always saved! We have confession. We know one needs to repent and not sin again.

How many times did Jesus say to forgive? 77 x 7?

 

[-57]

I understand. It is wrong for someone to say that once forgiven then all sins are forgiven as one needs to repent and ask forgiveness every time one sins. In my case, by going to confession.

....and if you miss one sin in confession....oops. You won't go to heaven if you die.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, correct. Jesus was on about 'tradition', not 'Tradition'. Sacred Tradition is very much different.

Jesus said nothing about upper casing or lower-casing his words.
The Jews considered their tradition "Sacred" and even Christ admits "The sit in the seat of Moses" when pronouncing their traditions.

Matthew 23:2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Matthew 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

The wild speculation that the Jews were merely claiming "common - non-sacred" status for their traditions - goes against every historic document on the subject.

 

[Goatee]

You have said this often.

You chose that ,
instead of listening to JESUS the SHEPHERD DIRECTLY, (you said just recently),
and what you chose is often opposed to JESUS and GOD'S WORD DIRECTLY.

Only in your eyes as you are looking through different glasses! You are listening to whisperings in your mind. You are relying on Sola Scripture. On looking for interpretations that suit your beliefs.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sacred Tradition in the CC is very much different as it come directly from the Apostles. Led by the Holy Spirit.

See here? This is where men of YHWH, "led by Y'SHUA" (GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT) differ with what you are claiming.

Since what you are claiming has already been shown to not be true very often, it is dismissed out of hand.

 

[Goatee]

Technically ...YES...

Now here's your problem...if you die with any unforgiven sin..ANY...you will no go to heaven. So, you better hope all of your sins are forgiven...past, present and future.

If you sin you are automatically forgiven? lol

 

[-57]

Rubbish as Catholic dont believe in once saved always saved! We have confession. We know one needs to repent and not sin again.

How many times did Jesus say to forgive? 77 x 7?

I personally don't think Catholocs are saved. One reason being if their you can lose your salvation message is true...they have already lost it.
As for me..All my sins have been forgiven and my salvation is secure forever.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Only in your eyes as you are looking through different glasses! You are listening to whisperings in your mind. You are relying on Sola Scripture. On looking for interpretations that suit your beliefs.

Yes, again, this is your claim - but you can only defend your claim with man's tradition,
while I rest entirely on what YHWH(GOD) says to RELY ON (HIM and HIS WORD - plain truth) and not on man/men.

 

[-57]

If you sin you are automatically forgiven? lol

My heart goes out for you...living in your legalistic I have to merit my way into heaven bondage.

 

[Goatee]

....and if you miss one sin in confession....oops. You won't go to heaven if you die.

All sins are absolved in confession as if you know the Catholic confession you would know what is said in there and what it means.

You cannot sin and not repent. Jesus sent out his Apostles to forgive sin. Our priests carry out that same ministry today.