Why are Christians so incredibly deceived about scripture?

[ToBeLoved]

I understand. It is wrong for someone to say that once forgiven then all sins are forgiven as one needs to repent and ask forgiveness every time one sins. In my case, by going to confession.

I sometimes get so tired of the labels that we (all of us, me too) put on Christians.

We need to stop doing that, me too.

 

[Goatee]

But what about the Old Testament people? The 10 Commandments were in effect in the Old Covenant. And breaking one commandment is the same as breaking all of them.

And YShua Messiah was not born yet.

So, how are you applying the Messiah's atonement for sin to the Old Covenant 10 Commandments?

Old Covenant was then. That was in the past. Jesus brought the new Covenant.

 

[ToBeLoved]

no it doesn't ..
it says if any says they "have no sin" .. not do not sin . if a person knows it sin and they still do it .that is rebellion .
and when would a person say they have sin ? simple , when God tells them they have sin. and why does god convict people of sin? so they can repent and be forgiven and when he forgives them and cleanses them from ALL unrighteousness (not some) they are then without sin for god has declared them cleansed just as he declared them to be sinners . and now they are to "GO and sin no more " as he told the accused woman . if they Go and do not return and do the sin he forgave them more then they can say they 'do not sin' .and still be perfectly truthful and in line with God for they do not go back and do the sin he forgave them for and cleansed them off.

they have repented .

How do you know who has repented or not and who has not committed a sin?

It is so useless to say the same thing over and over as a block statement, not to individuals in the body of Christ but as a general statement of condemnation over all Christians, but I guess it is easier and easier is what usually people do.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Old Covenant was then. That was in the past. Jesus brought the new Covenant.

Right, so why are you talking about what Jesus sins atone for in the Old Covenant? No atonement if Jesus hadn't died yet.

Jesus death and blood are the atonement.

 

[Goatee]

Right, so why are you talking about what Jesus sins atone for in the Old Covenant? No atonement if Jesus hadn't died yet.

Jesus death and blood are the atonement.

I wasn't

 

[JoeP222w]

The church never had justification by faith until Martin Luther and the reformation.

You will not find that assertion backed up by history.

Paul certainly believed we were justified by faith alone.

Romans 3.
Ephesians 2.
Galatians.
James.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I wasn't

Ok, good.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The church never had justification by faith until Martin Luther and the reformation.

Now that is quite a statement.

No one could figure out the Bible until Martin Luther and the reformation.

 

[JacksBratt]

Don't know what context you mean for this.

The penalty for sin is death, yes.

Either a man dies for his sins,

or Y'SHUA MESSIAH died for his sins.

Does eternal death not await anyone who breaks one of the 10 Commandments?

Of course it does for we all have broken one of them and are, thus, sinners.
The only way around this is by salvation through Christ.

My point was.... there is no sense in getting all caught up in the number of commandments and laws, the new or old covenant.... There is just one simple fact..we are sinners, we need Christ, Christ will give us salvation no matter how many laws or commandments we have broken.

 

[JacksBratt]

So you can sin as freely as you like then?

Technically.... yes. However, do you think that a true believer who has accepted Christ and repented from their sins could actually just go off as a loose cannon and sin perpetually?

I don't.

After salvation we will continue to sin. It is our human nature. We will pay the human penalty for human crimes but our salvation is sealed.
We will not be given rewards in heaven and may get in just as the doors close, however, saved non the less.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Does eternal death not await anyone who breaks one of the 10 Commandments?

No.

My point was.... there is no sense in getting all caught up in the number of commandments and laws, the new or old covenant.... There is just one simple fact..we are sinners, we need Christ, Christ will give us salvation no matter how many laws or commandments we have broken.

No.
Y'SHUA showed what to do , HE trained the Apostles and disciples in what to do to to be in YHWH'S KINGDOM.

He did not give salvation to all of HIS DISCIPLES ! (some of them, many of them, walked away from HIM without it)

 

[miknik5]

The church never had justification by faith until Martin Luther and the reformation. And once it was believed, then everyone slowly drifted in that direction of interpretation of scripture.

This has continued in the church. Reformation -> Baptist & Methodist -> Adventist -> Finney-Moody -> Pentecost -> Apostolic

Now what has happened to me is I currently attending a modern Full-Gospel church, but also participating in an apostolic evangelist group. And even among Bible teachers I listen to, I hear differences. Now, most differences, who cares?

But some of the differences I have encountered concern salvation itself and the Gospel.

Paul says:

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse! - Galatians 1:8

But this is clearly happening... even happening among groups that are very similar. My church doesn't preach water baptism does anything, it is symbolic they say, and you just do it because you were told to. The apostolic group says it is required for salvation, as if you wont enter heaven without it.

And in my own research, I am trying to figure out who is right and who is wrong since I will be under a curse should I not get my interpretation correct.

My conclusion was a 3rd thing no one has ever preached before. This means that if I am correct, all of Christianity is cursed since I'm the only person with the true gospel.

And my human reaction is that this is ludicrous.

Why can't Christians understand the gospel? I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, but shouldn't someone understand it? And that group that does understand it, why are they right and all other Christians dead wrong and cursed?

But this applies to any topic really about scripture. "I'm right because I have 5 verses plus my own interpretation of those 5 verses, and I ignored 10 verses to come up with these 5... " This seems to be Christianity's interpretation of scripture.

Martin Luther didn't write Romans 3:25 through Romans 3:26

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But what about the Old Testament people? The 10 Commandments were in effect in the Old Covenant. And breaking one commandment is the same as breaking all of them.

And YShua Messiah was not born yet.

So, how are you applying the Messiah's atonement for sin to the Old Covenant 10 Commandments?

Why all the mixup on this forum about this, and throughout religion throughout the world?

YHWH looked from heaven (always knew as well)
and Provided the WAY HIMSELF
since no one else had a way
to be saved from sin or from the world.

Without FAITH TRUSTING RELYING ON HIM (not mental consent alone, not by a leap year !)
it is impossible to please YHWH.

To PLEASE YHWH ! YES! HE DELIGHTS in HIS CHILDREN WHO PLEASE HIM.

Twas always by FAITH (LIVING TRUE ACTIVE BOLD SIMPLE FAITH).

 

[Goatee]

Technically.... yes. However, do you think that a true believer who has accepted Christ and repented from their sins could actually just go off as a loose cannon and sin perpetually?

I don't.

After salvation we will continue to sin. It is our human nature. We will pay the human penalty for human crimes but our salvation is sealed.
We will not be given rewards in heaven and may get in just as the doors close, however, saved non the less.

Technically....NO! Jesus did not die so that people can sin and sin and sin without a care in the world!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Martin Luther didn't write Romans 3:25 through Romans 3:26

That's true.
So?
Multitudes of people never read it. Many were put to death if they tried to , or even for asking questions about this.
Luther simply was granted faith from heaven by YHWH to read it and believe it,
was set free from the bondage multitudes had been in still,
and proclaimed the message of YHWH'S KINGDOM
as much as he was able to.

 

[miknik5]

That's true.
So?
Multitudes of people never read it. Many were put to death if they tried to , or even for asking questions about this.
Luther simply was granted faith from heaven by YHWH to read it and believe it,
was set free from the bondage multitudes had been in still,
and proclaimed the message of YHWH'S KINGDOM
as much as he was able to.

This man starts a thread about Martin Luther questioning his understanding and doesn't remember what is written in Romans 3:25 through Romans 3:26?

Shouldn't he have looked to THE SOURCE first before starting a thread which is already proven by GOD's WORD that Martin Luther wasn't the source but GOD was Martin's SOURCE

That is what I am responding to

If someone has already said this i apologize
Otherwise just reference GOD's WORD which already said GOD turned the whole world over to disobedience and that it is through CHRIST's sacrifice that we are justified

to be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in HIS SON certainly clearly answers the truth that GOD is the SOURCE and not Martin

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Amein, exactly as all YHWH'S MESSENGERS said. Apostles, Prophets, disciples, everywhere, whenever they lived and were saved called and chosen by YHWH for HIMSELF, set apart by HIMSELF for HIMSELF to do what HE SAYS.

just reference GOD's WORD which already said GOD turned the whole world over to disobedience and that it is through CHRIST's sacrifice that we are justified

to be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in HIS SON certainly clearly answers the truth that GOD is the SOURCE and not Martin

 

[miknik5]

That's true.
So?
Multitudes of people never read it. Many were put to death if they tried to , or even for asking questions about this.
Luther simply was granted faith from heaven by YHWH to read it and believe it,
was set free from the bondage multitudes had been in still,
and proclaimed the message of YHWH'S KINGDOM
as much as he was able to.

They were in bondage after they were set free? Then they keep forgetting what and who has set them free

If they want to keep going back to justify themselves then it isn't GOD's fault. But GOD will judge those who claimed to be teachers and were preaching more than what is needed and needful

Martin Luther's work was to tear down every stronghold which sets itself up against the TRUTH of THE GOSPEL so that babies who depended on their elder more "spiritual" brother who should know and teach TRUTH wouldnt be deceived but would hear THE TRUTH of THE GOSPEL for themselves and enter in properly through THE DOOR for themselves not needing a supposed fattened filled and fed sheep as their middleman to GOD

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

They were in bondage after they were set free? Then they keep forgetting what and who has set them free

Who?

Many revert back to bondage, whether set free or not, fully or partly. This is the human condition, everywhere,
with few exceptions.

 

[miknik5]

Who?

Many revert back to bondage, whether set free or not, fully or partly. This is the human condition, everywhere,
with few exceptions.

What do you want me to do about it? They aren't keeping before them what they began in

And should remember to

Reference 1 John 2