Why are Christians generally opposed to abortion?

[redleghunter]

Well let's just say that for whatever reason I consider it acceptable and in fact frequently beneficial for a pregnancy to be terminated, and no I don't consider that to be murder. If the baby was capable of living with normal parental assistance as every other child does, then I personally consider that child to be a human life. If it not fully developed then personally I do not believe that it can be considered an independent life.

I'm sorry to disagree and I'm sorry you feel so strongly against my views in this subject.

What I take issue with is you ignore settled science.

If what is in the womb is not human what is it?

 

[Dave RP]

What I take issue with is you ignore settled science.

If what is in the womb is not human what is it?

I'm not talking from a scientific viewpoint, I'm saying that there may be very good reasons for the mother to abort the pregnancy and she should have the right to do so without being called a murderer or other emotive language. It is not right to bring a child into the world without the means and opportunity to raise it in a stable and loving home. World population growth is destroying the planet and the fact that some women choose not to add to that destruction and choose no to bring an unwanted child into the world is a matter solely for them. As for what it is, my feeling is that it is not a human being unless it can move, see, feed, breathe unaided. Sorry but that's my opinion. My ex wife miscarried at 12 weeks, she didn't miscarry a human being.

 

[redleghunter]

As for what it is, my feeling is that it is not a human being unless it can move, see, feed, breathe unaided. Sorry but that's my opinion. My ex wife miscarried at 12 w

You are applying a subjective standard. Meaning you are applying your personal definition of human being, in opposition to medical science, to further your particular worldview.

You don't see a problem with that?

Suppose someone with sinister motives takes your standard and advocates the slaughter of Eastern Africans because they can't feed themselves, clothe themselves and are spreading diseases to healthy populations?

Or someone advocates not spending healthcare funds on the mentally handicapped?

Or just finds certain people, ethnic groups or religions as inconvenient to human progress?

Your stated worldview is nothing new. What I listed above has happened and in modern history through today. It's called establishing those who are weak and defenseless as sub human.

 

[St_Worm2]

I find it fascinating that in the case of an unborn child alone, the mother of that child decides whether he/she is a human being with the rights afforded every other human being, or if her son or daughter is simply an alien growth in her own body instead that needs to be surgically removed.

IOW, if it is the mother's "choice" to have her unborn child aborted, then that's the end of the story. It's not a homicide, it's an abortion. However, if her unborn child is killed for any other reason (IOW, w/o her permission), her unborn child's death is considered a homicide*.

*(Scott Peterson comes quickly to mind in this latter case. He was found guilty of committing a double homicide in California over a decade ago for the murder of his wife and their unborn child.)

How can this be

--David

"A baby is cradled / carried in the womb of it's mother, to grow and be nurtured until birth. Each baby is a wholly separate person from it's mother: With different DNA, different fingerprints, with possibly a different blood type or the opposite sex. The baby is a person living within a person and not "the mother's body". The mom is appointed to care for the separate life she carries within her and once it's born, find a home for her baby, if she can't provide one." -- Melody Green

 

[Dave RP]

You are applying a subjective standard. Meaning you are applying your personal definition of human being, in opposition to medical science, to further your particular worldview.

You don't see a problem with that?

Suppose someone with sinister motives takes your standard and advocates the slaughter of Eastern Africans because they can't feed themselves, clothe themselves and are spreading diseases to healthy populations?

Or someone advocates not spending healthcare funds on the mentally handicapped?

Or just finds certain people, ethnic groups or religions as inconvenient to human progress?

Your stated worldview is nothing new. What I listed above has happened and in modern history through today. It's called establishing those who are weak and defenseless as sub human.

I think you are taking your position to ludicrous extremities, the U.K. has very liberal abortion laws but I've yet to notice our leaders advocating genocide. If a young woman decides she doesn't want to go ahead with having a baby that is a tough decision, one that no one would want to make but it's hers to make.

Are you going to criminalise individuals based on your interpretation of what's right or wrong?

As for starving in East Africa etc, well there are going to be massive problems the world over caused by population growth and climate change and in my opinion we in the west should only offer Aid where it is combined with all forms of birth control and yes, I would say that would include offering free abortions to people living in areas where there is insufficient food or over population IF the woman herself makes the choice.

All life may, in your opinion be sacred but god gave us stewardship of the earth and we are destroying it, we have "gone forth and multiplied" far too successfully and a bit less multiplying would not go amiss.

 

[Dave RP]

I find it fascinating that in the case of an unborn child alone, the mother of that child decides whether he/she is a human being with the rights afforded every other human being, or if her son or daughter is simply an alien growth in her own body instead that needs to be surgically removed.

IOW, if it is the mother's "choice" to have her unborn child aborted, then that's the end of the story. It's not a homicide, it's an abortion. However, if her unborn child is killed for any other reason (IOW, w/o her permission), her unborn child's death is considered a homicide*.

*(Scott Peterson comes quickly to mind in this latter case. He was found guilty of committing a double homicide in California over a decade ago for the murder of his wife and their unborn child.)

How can this be

--David

In my opinion it is her choice because she knows the circumstances and life the child will have, it is not a wonderful thing to bring a child into the world to live a terrible life, or to be subjected to violence or to starve. That's correct in my opinion, and as I said I've been personally connected with two abortions and felt they were the right thing to do in each case.

 

[rjs330]

I think you are taking your position to ludicrous extremities, the U.K. has very liberal abortion laws but I've yet to notice our leaders advocating genocide. If a young woman decides she doesn't want to go ahead with having a baby that is a tough decision, one that no one would want to make but it's hers to make.

Are you going to criminalise individuals based on your interpretation of what's right or wrong?

As for starving in East Africa etc, well there are going to be massive problems the world over caused by population growth and climate change and in my opinion we in the west should only offer Aid where it is combined with all forms of birth control and yes, I would say that would include offering free abortions to people living in areas where there is insufficient food or over population IF the woman herself makes the choice.

All life may, in your opinion be sacred but god gave us stewardship of the earth and we are destroying it, we have "gone forth and multiplied" far too successfully and a bit less multiplying would not go amiss.

Actually it is genocide. Genocide of the unborn human. We do not have a population problem. We have a people problem. We make enough food to feed everyone on this planet. But we have evil people in power who either won't allow them to have it or use it as power over them.

What we have is evil run amok in the guise of a medical procedure. Killing the innocent is considered the highest form of evil except when it come to the unborn life. It's just odd to.me that people who claim to have such great compassion are also the ones advocating for the death of babies of all sorts.

 

[Dave RP]

Actually it is genocide. Genocide of the unborn human. We do not have a population problem. We have a people problem. We make enough food to feed everyone on this planet. But we have evil people in power who either won't allow them to have it or use it as power over them.

What we have is evil run amok in the guise of a medical procedure. Killing the innocent is considered the highest form of evil except when it come to the unborn life. It's just odd to.me that people who claim to have such great compassion are also the ones advocating for the death of babies of all sorts.

Sorry but we have a massive population problem and we are destroying the planet as a result.

 

[seeking.IAM]

In the United State we tend to criminalize all that is illegal, and incarceration is about all we seem to know what to do as a consequence. Therefore we incarcerate a greater percentage of people than other countries. As I read this thread, I wonder what posters would think the consequences should be for violators should SCOTUS overturn Roe v. Wade? For the childbearer? For the practitioner? Maybe this is a topic for a new thread sometime, but the legal issue is a separate one from the sin issue. What to do with these people?

 

[redleghunter]

I think you are taking your position to ludicrous extremities

Don't think so. Your model for deeming human worth has been used in human history to do all sorts of horror.

Just as religious and political leaders of all stripes have used their religion to deem others as undesirables, and sub human.

 

[Introverted1293]

Probably because Christians just value life given by God. A lot of Christians believe that, well I can't speak for all Christians, but the ones that I know believe that life is a gift given by God.

 

[rjs330]

Sorry but we have a massive population problem and we are destroying the planet as a result.

No we are not. Are you advocating killing people to save the planet? Who needs to die and how many?

 

[KWCrazy]

That's just like saying that smokers should pay for their own treatment, or drinkers, or drug addicts or anyone who makes a lifestyle choice which results in harm.

Yes, I think the term for that is responsibility.
If you want to engage in dangerous lifestyles then you should pay the cost. What's wrong with that?
Should we buy their clothes for them too?

Adult activities of all kinds result in costs, and adults (or most do) pay tax to fund that.

In socialist countries, yes.
The USA is not a socialist country.
If I want to ride a motorcycle, I should pay for my own insurance; which I do.
I never entertained the thought that anyone other than I should pay for my health insurance. Maybe it's time you took responsibility for your own actions.

In abortion you are not killing a baby, you are preventing a baby being born, it's a totally different thing.

Lie. It comes out all right, in pieces because it gets chopped up.
If you want to prevent a pregnancy, use a birth control method that prevents pregnancy; not one that creates and then kills an infant. Only a truly evil mind sees abortion as birth control. Is it birth control if I take a newborn and smash it's skull in? What's the difference? Location?

 

[KWCrazy]

My ex wife miscarried at 12 weeks, she didn't miscarry a human being.

What was she pregnant with, puppies?
12 Weeks Pregnant
Baby: All parts of your baby are developing, from tooth buds to toenails. Your baby will keep developing and getting larger and stronger for the rest of your pregnancy. By the end of this week, the chance of miscarriage drops considerably. source

The body accepts the baby as normal or rejects it at this stage. Miscarriages after this time are more rare, but miscarriages around this time are not uncommon. Your baby's heart beat for 6 weeks.

 

[Dave RP]

No we are not. Are you advocating killing people to save the planet? Who needs to die and how many?

The population of hevworld is unsustainable if we want a bio diverse planet to leave to future generations, and don't be bloody stupid, of course I'm not advocating genicide. I am advocating birth control and education, because if we don't control the population we will ruin the environment.

 

[Dave RP]

Yes, I think the term for that is responsibility.
If you want to engage in dangerous lifestyles then you should pay the cost. What's wrong with that?
Should we buy their clothes for them too?

In socialist countries, yes.
The USA is not a socialist country.
If I want to ride a motorcycle, I should pay for my own insurance; which I do.
I never entertained the thought that anyone other than I should pay for my health insurance. Maybe it's time you took responsibility for your own actions.

Lie. It comes out all right, in pieces because it gets chopped up.
If you want to prevent a pregnancy, use a birth control method that prevents pregnancy; not one that creates and then kills an infant. Only a truly evil mind sees abortion as birth control. Is it birth control if I take a newborn and smash it's skull in? What's the difference? Location?

No need to be aggressive. The UK is not a socialist country either, try to get your facts straight. We have two healthcare systems. A universal system paid for by taxation and a private sector paid for by insurance. Everyone is in the universal system, about 7 million have private health insurance as well, which part of that is socialist?

Your attitude towards personal choice by women and what they do with their futures is closer to totalitarian regime thinking than having a safety net of universal health care.

 

[Dave RP]

Probably because Christians just value life given by God. A lot of Christians believe that, well I can't speak for all Christians, but the ones that I know believe that life is a gift given by God.

God needs to give he gift less frequently if he wants his planet to thrive in the future.

 

[Dave RP]

What was she pregnant with, puppies?
12 Weeks Pregnant
Baby: All parts of your baby are developing, from tooth buds to toenails. Your baby will keep developing and getting larger and stronger for the rest of your pregnancy. By the end of this week, the chance of miscarriage drops considerably. source

The body accepts the baby as normal or rejects it at this stage. Miscarriages after this time are more rare, but miscarriages around this time are not uncommon. Your baby's heart beat for 6 weeks.

Well given it died when miscarried it certainly wasn't a fully formed human being.

 

[zephcom]

Simply put, Christians value human life to a great extreme. A fetus is considered to be a human life, therefore, a fetus is valued to a great extreme. To kill him/her for the mother's convenience (in the vast majority of cases) is morally wrong.

On the other hand, killing people for political and economic convenience is perfectly fine.

The truth is that Christians don't value human life at all. They just jumped on this bandwagon because their leadership uses it to keep the money flowing in.

 

[zephcom]

I only speak for one Christian. I believe abortion destroys a beloved creation of God. I think it is sinful to destroy that which God has created.

Is that a sin specifically applied to abortion or a more universal sin that applies destroying people in war, destroying the planet with over-population, destroying wellness by withholding health care, etc.

There is a LOT of things being destroyed on this planet that God created without a word being spoken.