Why Am I Eating a Pork Chop?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 9, 2021

MMXX said:
So there's a bunch of people with a bunch differing opinions on which of the 613 laws Christians are supposed to obey.

No on the exact number

Servus · Feb 9, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
No on the exact number

Okay.

SabbathBlessings · Feb 9, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Ok I just learned that it doesn’t matter what restrictions were in place before the flood because after the flood The Lord told Noah he can eat anything that moves in Genesis 9:3. So we’re all good now, feel free to order that BLT or fully loaded baked potato.

Jesus took seven of the clean animals and only 2 of the unclean. Everything His does is by design.

BNR32FAN · Feb 9, 2021

1an said:
The message was to the church that had let the people of Balim in.

Ok so are you saying it’s ok to eat meat offered to idols and to commit in sexual immorality?

“But I have a few things against you, because you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

BNR32FAN · Feb 9, 2021

imge said:
Jesus took seven of the clean animals and only 2 of the unclean. Everything His does is by design.

Yeah that was in before the flood so that’s irrelevant now since I just showed that He told Noah after the flood that he can eat anything that moves.

Servus · Feb 9, 2021

imge said:
Jesus never sinned, there would be no hope for any of us. Jesus told us He was sinless so I believe Him, shouldn't we all?

John 15: 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

That has nothing to do with Jesus amending Sabbath Law as the Lord of the Sabbath. He also said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, which Moses never wrote about the Sabbath. Jesus being God got to change things without it being a sin.

SabbathBlessings · Feb 9, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Yeah that was in before the flood so that’s irrelevant now since I just showed that He told Noah after the flood that he can eat anything that moves.

That would have God contradicting Himself in Leviticus. That doesn't seem plausible so maybe Genesis 9:3 means something else. We also have this Isaiah 66:16 "They that sanctify themselves and purify themselves in the garden, behind the tree in the midst. Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together, saith the Lord." In other words, those who eat those things that God clearly condemns are an abomination.

If you keep reading in Genesis 9:3 the very next word after "green herbs" is "but." 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man.

So God is saying, "But I've got something else to tell you about what you ought to eat." From there, He says we shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. So on one hand, He's saying, I'm giving you everything. But on the other He's saying, but there are some things that I know you're not supposed to eat, and so I'm going to tell you about those things.

Freth · Feb 9, 2021

Does God allow us to eat meat? Yes. God allows us that choice.
Does God want us to eat unclean meat? No. Unclean meat defiles the body.
Does God want us to eat meat at all? No. Meat causes cancer. The body is the temple.
Why? Because God wants us to reach our utmost physical and spiritual potential.
Are the dietary laws still binding? Yes. Human health was/is/always will be important.
The judging of meat and drink is in the context of tradition and idolatry creeping in and causing men to judge those keeping God's law, as seen in Colossians 2:1-15.
The context of Peter's dream in Acts 10 has nothing to do with permission to eat unclean meat. In Acts 10:28, Peter makes it clear the dream was about not calling any man unclean.
The context of Matthew 15:11 is made apparent in Matthew 15:2, the cleanliness of hands. It has nothing to do with unclean meat.
God doesn't change. Jesus doesn't change. Why would Jesus contradict dietary law? Jesus didn't contradict ceremonial law, He fulfilled it. Jesus did not fulfill personal health and spiritual well-being on the cross, that's still up to us to maintain.

The whole point is physical and spiritual. If you feed your body with junk, you're going to get junk in return, either in poor health or poor spirit.

Since Ellen White was mentioned, I thought I would post an excerpt, which shows her own convictions about diet, to clear up any misconceptions. This is from her book Patriarchs and Prophets.

The angel’s prohibition included “every unclean thing.” [Judges 13:3-5] The distinction between articles of food as clean and unclean was not a merely ceremonial and arbitrary regulation, but was based upon sanitary principles. To the observance of this distinction may be traced, in a great degree, the marvelous vitality which for thousands of years has distinguished the Jewish people. The principles of temperance must be carried further than the mere use of spirituous liquors. The use of stimulating and indigestible food is often equally injurious to health, and in many cases sows the seeds of drunkenness. True temperance teaches us to dispense entirely with everything hurtful and to use judiciously that which is healthful. There are few who realize as they should how much their habits of diet have to do with their health, their character, their usefulness in this world, and their eternal destiny. The appetite should ever be in subjection to the moral and intellectual powers. The body should be servant to the mind, and not the mind to the body. { PP 562.1}

Romans 6:12-18

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [therefore not "under the law"]

The question that needs to be answered vs dietary concerns is this. How are we to achieve our full Christian potential if we have one foot in the world and one foot in heaven? This is why SDA are so adamant about diet. A clean body is also a clean spirit. Ellen White understood this clearly. She wrote Patriarchs and Prophets in 1890.

One doesn't need Ellen White to come to the truth that diet does matter. The whole point of Christianity is preparing ourselves for our inheritance. We are called to something greater and it's up to us to recognize that devoutness isn't just about spiritual habits, it's also about physical habits. All of it is connected.

It makes no sense (to me) to toss out God's laws that are clearly relevant to spiritual growth and physical health. Some will dismiss even the laws written in stone, so that they can keep one foot in the world (in the traditions of men, et al).

That old adage, "You are what you eat", is true.

SabbathBlessings · Feb 9, 2021

MMXX said:
That has nothing to do with Jesus amending Sabbath Law as the Lord of the Sabbath. He also said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, which Moses never wrote about the Sabbath. Jesus being God got to change things without it being a sin.

So you're saying the one commandment that is "void" is the only commandment that God specifically asked us to Remember? So God didn't mean what He said? I think not. Also, the Sabbath was made for man, means just that, He made Sabbath for all mankind and it is meant to be a Blessing.

Servus · Feb 9, 2021

imge said:
So you're saying the one commandment that is "void" is the only commandment that God specifically asked us to Remember? So God didn't mean what He said? I think not. Also, the Sabbath was made for man, means just that, He made is for all mankind and it is meant to be a Blessing.

No I'm saying that Jesus was constantly accused of breaking the Sabbath Himself or telling others to break it like "pick up your mat and carry it" or allowing others to break it such as allowing His disciples to gather wheat.

As a matter of fact Jesus never said anything about keeping the Sabbath, but rather shot down those complaining about it not being kept.

Another thing I note is that the 4th commandment is not to do any work on the seventh day. God didn't write in stone anything about going to church etc on the seventh day.

pescador · Feb 9, 2021

MMXX said:
So there's a bunch of people with a bunch differing opinions on which of the 613 laws Christians are supposed to obey.

Christians are not under law but under grace. That is the basis of the New Covenant.

pescador · Feb 9, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Ok that’s not what Jesus said in Revelation 2:14.

Oh now I get it. One half of one verse, taken out of context and misinterpreted, is what you base your argument on?

Here is that verse in its entirety: "Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality."

And from this -- Balak enticing some of the ancient Israelites to eat food sacrificed to idols -- you think that all Christians, Jews and Gentiles, may not eat whatever they want as long as it is done in faith and doesn't affect others' faith. Your exegesis is so wrong!!

SabbathBlessings · Feb 9, 2021

MMXX said:
No I'm saying that Jesus was constantly accused of breaking the Sabbath Himself or telling others to break it like "pick up your mat and carry it" or allowing others to break it such as allowing His disciples to gather wheat.

As a matter of fact Jesus never said anything about keeping the Sabbath, but rather shot down those complaining about it not being kept.

Keeping His Fathers commdmants is keeping the Sabbath and Jesus said He kept all of His Fathers commandments which includes the 4th. Are you saying Jesus is not telling the truth?
John 15: 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. Jesus kept the Sabbath.

Servus · Feb 9, 2021

pescador said:
Christians are not under law but under grace. That is the basis of the New Covenant.

Not according to Ellen G. White apparently.

Servus · Feb 9, 2021

imge said:
Keeping His Fathers commdmants is keeping the Sabbath and Jesus said He kept all of His Fathers commandments which includes the 4th. Are you saying Jesus is not telling the truth?

No.

Also this thread isn't about the 4th commandment. It's about Leviticus 11:7

BNR32FAN · Feb 9, 2021

imge said:
That would have God contradicting Himself in Leviticus. That doesn't seem plausible so maybe Genesis 9:3 means something else. We also have this Isaiah 66:16 "They that sanctify themselves and purify themselves in the garden, behind the tree in the midst. Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together, saith the Lord." In other words, those who eat those things that God clearly condemns are an abomination.

If you keep reading in Genesis 9:3 the very next word after "green herbs" is "but." 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man.

So God is saying, "But I've got something else to tell you about what you ought to eat." From there, He says we shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. So on one hand, He's saying, I'm giving you everything. But on the other He's saying, but there are some things that I know you're not supposed to eat, and so I'm going to tell you about those things.

No there’s no contradiction it was simply a change in His commandment. Leviticus has nothing to do with Noah. There are no scriptures where Noah was commanded to observe the Mosaic dietary laws. Noah was originally told that he was to eat fruits & vegetables. He was not told that he could eat any meat until Genesis 9. God simply changed His commandment.

BNR32FAN · Feb 9, 2021

pescador said:
Oh now I get it. One half of one verse, taken out of context and misinterpreted, is what you base your argument on?

Here is that verse in its entirety: "Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality."

And from this -- Balak enticing some of the ancient Israelites to eat food sacrificed to idols -- you think that all Christians, Jews and Gentiles, may not eat whatever they want as long as it is done in faith and doesn't affect others' faith. Your exegesis is so wrong!!

Let’s examine the entire verse because your leaving out a very key portion.

“But I have a few things against you, because you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

So are we free to commit sexual immorality as well as long as ”it’s done in faith”? Only the gentiles have received an actual statement allowing them to eat meat offered to idols. Nowhere in the scriptures are the Jews ever given this privilege. They are forbidden to eat meat offered to idols.

Leaf473 · Feb 9, 2021

posts 306 and 316 talk about God changing the commandments.

I think that's really a key issue. Does God do that? I think so.

I would allow the possibility, though I'm not sure, that the church since it is the body of Christ on Earth, can also change the commandments.

BNR32FAN · Feb 9, 2021

Freth said:
Does God want us to eat unclean meat? No. Unclean meat defiles the body.

If by “us” you mean Jews then that is correct. Noah was told he could eat anything that moves in Genesis 9.

BNR32FAN · Feb 9, 2021

Freth said:
God doesn't change. Jesus doesn't change. Why would Jesus contradict dietary law? Jesus didn't contradict ceremonial law, He fulfilled it. Jesus did not fulfill personal health and spiritual well-being on the cross, that's still up to us to maintain.

No but His commandments do, if they didn’t then we would still be offering animal sacrifices for atonement of sin.

Why Am I Eating a Pork Chop?

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