WHY all the great confusion about eternal security?

[BCsenior]

Your comments bring up a couple of observations about the prodigal son. I think our theology should reflect that these people (prodigals) are damned BUT the hope is that while they are still able, they should repent and turn aside from sin and be forgiven. If on the other hand, we insist that their status as saved remains the same despite their estranged condition from God, I think we do them a great disservice as it provides them with no motivation to repent as they can still wallow in sin while still believing themselves to be children of God.

MANY KUDOS to the old man among us!

 

[BCsenior]

I think we manufacture theology to suit our human perspective of how we think He works rather than basing our conclusions on His Word - written scripture combined with divine revelation.

And doesn't this apply to you?
It does NOT apply to me ...
all of my conclusions are based on Scripture.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Did you know that Kapische was a pre-Christian pagan idol ???

Better repent quick...

Blessings

Carl Emerson.

 

[BCsenior]

The genuinely born again believer will not take the mark...

Thou hast many reality checks to face!
The prophets today say many thousands (millions?)
will indeed do just that!
The true BACs (all around the world) will be hunted
down like crazy, and unless they are well-hidden
and well-supplied, they will have to choose
between watching their families starve to death
OR taking the dreaded mark of the beast!

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK, you choose to believe Jeremiah ...
over all of the many dire warnings in the NT.
This is A-OK, IF Jerry is talking about God's special elect,
the ones whom He knows will remain faithful & obedient.

But, me, I'm involved with warning those who
are not in the red (not in debt necessarily, lol).

Guess What? ... those in the red also need warnings
(would you prefer "reminders"?)
... to help them stay in the red!

Kapische? or no kapische?

End times is not my cup of tea but I would be interested to know if you believe the very elect are the 144K and they alone are allowed to know they are saved ???

 

[BCsenior]

And the blood of Jesus ONLY applies to your past sins repented of.

You merely slipped up a tad with your English.
You meant to say ...
"And the blood of Jesus ONLY applies to your past
sins repented of, and present ones repented of
(even though just slightly in da past)."

Praise You Jesus for givin' this old guy
true spiritual revelation of the Truth!

 

[BCsenior]

I think we miss the fact that the cross was a timeless event anchored in chronology. His blood was poured out on all history past present and future and is being poured out every instant. It is indeed done. It is either His Blood or our performance. Given that my righteousness is as filthy rags, I know which one I will trust.

Haven't you read the NT verses about
practicing righteousness and working righteousness?
As well as multitudes of other verses?

Obviously, you don't believe this from the OP,
(and you don't believe I know what the NT says) ...

Many NT verses teach against eternal security.
Most of these Truths are proven by many NT verses:
● Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
● Believers stay righteous through their obedience
● Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
● Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
● Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
● Believers must love, forgive, not judge or condemn
● Believers must be victorious overcomers
● Believers must stay faithful during persecution
● Believers must not take the mark of the beast

 

[BCsenior]

Study the parable of the prodigal. For me, I became DEAD in my sins - spiritually dead.

A retired pastor friend keeps talking about the unsaved
person whose spirit(man) is DEAD.
I was always taught that his spirit(man) is EMPTY,
and that is why the elect-to-be finds himself searching
for Truth, i.e. to fill that empty void in his spirit(man).
What thinkest thou, old wise one?

 

[BCsenior]

Jesus' death is indeed a timeless event but salvation is a process and the scriptures never describe salvation as a one-time event in the past only but also in present and future terms as well.

Oh that all BACs understood the spiritual Truths
that you do!
This all goes back to the horrendous teaching,
which takes place in our churches today!

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think we have covered the issue and you are starting to repeat the same material.

Thanks for the opportunity to discuss this - we havn't reached agreement but hey... the learning curve is eternal.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[BCsenior]

It is not faith + works = salvation.
It is faith = works = salvation.

How about ...
True saving faith = enduring belief
+ enduring trust + enduring obedience

True saving faith produces works pleasing to the Lord.
True saving faith must endure until the end of life.

 

[BCsenior]

I used to believe this way and about wore myself out trying to keep saved. But when I realized the reason I believed was because God saved me, or else I could not believe, my experience in Christ took a new turn. "Whosoever believes" is a characteristic of those to whom God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit and faith. And without the gift, no one can believe in the biblical sense. So as Hebrews says, faith is the evidence. And because of faith's presence you know God saved you.

This is all very nice indeed ... except ...
you always ignore/reject the warnings in the NT.

 

[Dave L]

This is all very nice indeed ... except ...
you always ignore/reject the warnings in the NT.

Who says I neglect them besides you? Faith is evidence God saved me. But without fruit and holiness I have no assurance of salvation.

 

[BCsenior]

I'm afraid that it's necessary to state the bottom line!

BACs (and especially those with the Holy Spirit baptism)
who have put in MANY hours of serious study of
the Scriptures ... are rewarded with more spiritual revelation and understanding than other BACs.
Does this make any sense to you?
(I even think there are Scripture verses to this effect.)

BACS need to study more & be led by the Spirit more
instead of believing in their ideas/opinions/wishes!

 

[Carl Emerson]

mmm... sounds a shade judgmental ???

I for one am baptised in the Spirit, and studied the bible alone prayerfully and regularly for 5 years without any input except His Word. Then I went to a non-denominational bible college for three years. I have been privileged to see Him work rebuilding my life from nothing. I have walked with Him and seen Him touch lives for the last 45 years. He continues to transform folk through the prayer He gives me.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[BCsenior]

mmm, sounds a shade judgemental ???

Yes, I'm judging your spelling ... hope that's okay.
How does judgmental sit with you?
Also, 5 years is nothing.

 

[BCsenior]

Here's a quote from one of our members
taken from a recent thread ...

"Many are going to hell believing the lies of false teachers. If you interpret scripture based on the preconceived belief you can't lose your salvation,
you will twist the word of God until it is unrecognizable that it is even a warning to Christians, but to "some other group" or as in the case of Galatians 5:19-21 you just lose rewards in heaven or here on earth, instead of
what is actually means and that is that they
WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.!"

 

[Carl Emerson]

I suspect nothing is enough unless I agree with your theology.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson

 

[BCsenior]

I suspect nothing is enough unless I agree with your theology.

Those who argue with me ...
totally and absolutely ignore and/or reject
many, many clear verses in the NT.

As a matter of fact, they almost never
quote one of my verses and explain
why my understanding of it is false!

Explanation ...
They do NOT want to accept that
my understanding of the verse is true!

Heartbreaking ...
Some of us here desire to pass on our
knowledge of spiritual Truth to others,
but we are met with unbelief and complaints!

1stcenturylady, myself, and probably Oldmantook ...
are all in our 70's, but the youngins know more than us.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks for being open and honest about your position.

At least readers will know what they are dealing with.

I will be 73 in a few days.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.