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Why Acceptance of the Genesis Account is Extremely Important For Christians

Archie the Preacher

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Radrook said:
That's tantamount to saying that there is hope that something will eventually prove Jesus wrong about Genesis.
No. That's saying YOU could be wrong about Genesis.

As I've pointed out prior to this, no YEC adherent will ever even consider the possibility they are wrong about what they've been told.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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Radrook said:
I didn't say that they are not Christians in God's eyes.
I didn't say you did.

One might think you have a guilty conscience.
 
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Radrook

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I didn't say you did.

One might think you have a guilty conscience.

I need have no bad conscience for speaking what the Bible clearly states.
If I were declaring the opposite-then I would have cause for a bad conscience.

Matthew 7:21
New International Version
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
 
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BobRyan

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Glad to see that you perceived the inevitable, logical import of the statement.

Thanks -- you have made many good points on the thread.

The thread title is about accepting doctrinal truths found in Genesis and why that is important to Bible-believing Christians.

But the opposition would be that if we ignore every detail in Genesis - focus only on believing in evolutionism, ignore every detail on how the Gospel is tied to the Bible doctrine on origins and the fall of man as well as the Law of God and the doctrine on origins... then with all those "details" ignored one could still hold on to the idea of believing in evolutionism.

And certainly it is true that if you hold all those details at a great enough distance -- almost anything it at least plausible.
 
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JCFantasy23

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MOD HAT ON

Please remember to get along!

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I see some flaming brewing on this thread...

Please consider this a reminder to not flame and stay on topic.

Further issues may result in thread cleans, closes or other staff actions.



The full list of site rules can be found here.

MOD HAT OFF
 
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Radrook

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No. That's saying YOU could be wrong about Genesis.

As I've pointed out prior to this, no YEC adherent will ever even consider the possibility they are wrong about what they've been told.

I believe what Jesus believed about Genesis.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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Radrook said:
I believe what Jesus believed about Genesis.
You mean you believe what some other YEC sort told you Jesus meant without considering the understanding of Jesus' audience.

You have no idea what Jesus knows.
 
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toLiJC

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Why Acceptance of the Genesis Account is Extremely Important For Christians

the biblical Genesis gives us to understand what the real arrangement of things was at the beginning of the eternity, which is important e.g. if there is a need for some worshiper to understand the difference between the true account of creation and some false, or between the true account of the initial state of affairs at the beginning and some false; in the Genesis account there are not-a-few things that are significant in proving/establishing the truth of God and Jesus

Blessings
 
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Radrook

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the biblical Genesis gives us to understand what the real arrangement of things was at the beginning of the eternity, which is important e.g. if there is a need for some worshiper to understand the difference between the true account of creation and some false, or between the true account of the initial state of affairs at the beginning and some false; in the Genesis account there are not-a-few things that are significant in proving/establishing the truth of God and Jesus

Blessings

How can eternity have a beginning?
 
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toLiJC

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How can eternity have a beginning?

Mark 4:30-32 "he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom(i.e. the origins) of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It(i.e. in the beginning God) is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth(i.e. which, when it is at the beginning of (the) eternity), is less than all the seeds that be in the earth(i.e. is "less" than all things of the universe): But when it is sown(i.e. but when the eternity begins), it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs(i.e. than all things of the universe), and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air(i.e. so that many Holy Angels) may lodge under the shadow of it.",

John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word(i.e. in the beginning of the eternity God was in the form of seed), and the Word was with God(i.e. and the seed was growing), and the Word was God(i.e. until He has grown up). The same was in the beginning with God.",

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.",

Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

there is a beginning, a sequel and an end of eternity, which makes it cyclic, it begins whenever it ends, God is the first one that is born in the beginning, and the last one that experiences an end going through a transition(He never dies completely and permanently and never changes, albeit the transition that He goes through from end to next beginning of eternity)

Blessings
 
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Radrook

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Mark 4:30-32 "he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom(i.e. the origins) of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It(i.e. in the beginning God) is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth(i.e. which, when it is at the beginning of (the) eternity), is less than all the seeds that be in the earth(i.e. is "less" than all things of the universe): But when it is sown(i.e. but when the eternity begins), it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs(i.e. than all things of the universe), and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air(i.e. so that many Holy Angels) may lodge under the shadow of it.",

John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word(i.e. in the beginning of the eternity God was in the form of seed), and the Word was with God(i.e. and the seed was growing), and the Word was God(i.e. until He has grown up). The same was in the beginning with God.",

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.",

Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

there is a beginning, a sequel and an end of eternity, which makes it cyclic, it begins whenever it ends, God is the first one that is born in the beginning, and the last one that experiences an end going through a transition(He never dies completely and permanently and never changes, albeit the transition that He goes through from end to next beginning of eternity)

Blessings


The reference to a beginning is the beginning of creation.
Eternity, by definition, has no starting or ending. Application of a beginning to it renders its meaning something other than eternity.


Simple Definition of eternity
  • : time without an end

  • : a state that comes after death and never ends

  • : time that seems to be without an end
Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternity
 
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toLiJC

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The reference to a beginning is the beginning of creation.
Eternity, by definition, has no starting or ending. Application of a beginning to it renders its meaning something other than eternity.


Simple Definition of eternity
  • : time without an end

  • : a state that comes after death and never ends

  • : time that seems to be without an end
Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternity

you alone quoted it:
[*]: time that seems to be without an end
the translation of this word is such both in the dictionary and the biblical lexicon:

Strong's G165 - aiōn
αἰών
Transliteration - aiōn
Pronunciation - ī-ō'n

- for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
- the worlds, universe
- period of time, age

and this is so, because eternity is both periodic(al) and endless - it begins after it ends, which is why it is both periodic(al) and endless, or what had (the state of affairs) been for all that past time's infinity which was before God started to create the world 5-6 millenniums ago?!, is it possible that God had not existed/lived for that time?!, or if souls can either live or suffer for ever and ever, then this means they must be infinitely existing, otherwise if it wasn't so, they would not exist, let alone live or suffer, for ever and ever, so where had the souls been before God began to create the world 5-6 millennia ago?!

Blessings
 
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mmksparbud

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you alone quoted it:

the translation of this word is such both in the dictionary and the biblical lexicon:

Strong's G165 - aiōn
αἰών
Transliteration - aiōn
Pronunciation - ī-ō'n

- for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
- the worlds, universe
- period of time, age

and this is so, because eternity is both periodic(al) and endless - it begins after it ends, which is why it is both periodic(al) and endless, or what had (the state of affairs) been for all that past time's infinity which was before God started to create the world 5-6 millenniums ago?!, is it possible that God had not existed/lived for that time?!, or if souls can either live or suffer for ever and ever, then this means they must be infinitely existing, otherwise if it wasn't so, they would not exist, let alone live or suffer, for ever and ever, so where had the souls been before God began to create the world 5-6 millennia ago?!

Blessings


There was a beginning for this world, this galaxy. It started when God created it. It did not exist before, neither did we. Man began with Adam and Eve. We begin at conception. We have a start, the saved will not have an end, the lost will have an end--
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
God never had a beginning, He always was and always will be---He alone is immortal.
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
 
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BobRyan

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sometimes "the obvious" is sooo incredibly apparent that even the atheists can see it.



Quoting the late - Will Provine -
"Provine is a historian of science specializing in population biology and the Modern Synthesis in evolutionary theory. He has published the definitive study of the distinguished geneticist, Sewall Wright. A Tennessee native educated at the Unviersity of Chicago, he is Distinguished University Professor at Cornell University, where he holds appointments in the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, the Department of History, and the Department of Science and Technology Studies. Provine, who is a hard determinist as well as an atheist, rejects all forms of teleology in biology and claims that “evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented.”

==========================
He is right on two counts.

1. It was invented - a story "made up".
2. It is an "engine for atheism" -- possibly the greatest engine for atheism. (Though clearly it does not work "instantaneously" to produce atheists)

Were we just "not supposed to notice"???
 
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BobRyan

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I believe what Jesus believed about Genesis.

Amen!

And as it turns out - it is impossible to "insert Darwinism" into every statement Jesus made about creation or to construe that Moses "was a Darwinist".

Which is a problem for some T.E.'s but not a problem for those holding to the Bible account of Creation.
 
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toLiJC

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There was a beginning for this world, this galaxy. It started when God created it. It did not exist before, neither did we. Man began with Adam and Eve. We begin at conception. We have a start, the saved will not have an end, the lost will have an end--
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
God never had a beginning, He always was and always will be---He alone is immortal.
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

man, if you really want that we reason out these things, then let's think properly (on them), being aware that the greatest punishment is for the false prophets, so if any of us is not quite sure about something, then let's he or she not be hasty to express their opinion on that thing thus imposing a misbelief, but first be quick to reflect on it right enough, because what's the point to explain repeatedly to someone that e.g. 2+2=4 if he or she continues to deny it and even to impose something else instead of it (e.g. that 2+2=5)?!, in principle, i also prefer that there be indefinitely lasting life in heaven/paradise, that is absolutely endless for every soul, i.e. throughout the (whole) time's infinity, but the facts are obviously different, and so the truth too, and the truth is important, i personally cannot afford (to be more precise, don't dare) to change it, moreover, it can't be changed in the mind of God at all, and the worst thing is that such a change can, God forbid, be catastrophic/cause very great cataclysm(s) of world scale...

yes, God is not just indefinitely existing, but indefinitely living - He never passes completely and permanently, but this doesn't mean there is no transition for Him, and whatever it is said in the biblical scriptures, it is said on the basis of all that doctrine which is explained therein (throughout the Bible), for example Jesus says in the Gospels that every thing impossible with men is possible for God, but is He talking about every thing that a man could want?!, because there were a lot of people that even wanted to kill, rape, rob, and, in general, to do things that are harmful or painful to their neighbor(cohabitant/townsman), but of course the true God can't afford to support such acts, or let's take for example the case of the so-called omnipotence paradox of the stone, namely, could an omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that even they could not lift it?!, so why must the true God create such a rock at all?!, He is the system Administrator of life, not a sorcerer, conjurer, juggler or clown, but not-a-few humans were ready to ask Him to do such things, also, did Jesus ever ask His Heavenly Father to perform magic tricks?!, of course not, but there were not-a-few people ready to ask Him to do such things, and why must the true God perform magic tricks at all, especially when there are still many that need to be saved(cleansed/healed/recovered/resurrected)?!, therefore Jesus, as well as each of His true disciples presented in the Bible, saved people needing salvation, and didn't perform magic tricks, though they were also impossible for many - so here we proved that Jesus hardly meant quite literally all things that the human imagination could want when He said that all things impossible with men are possible for God

let's take for example another case, e.g. the Jesus' saying: "I am with you every day, even unto the end of time. Amen"(Matthew 28:20, Aramaic Bible), what end of time is He talking about, because He says He will be always with His true disciples until the end of time?!, which means there will be a time when He will be no longer with them, i.e. after the time during which He will be with them every day, the word in other versions of the Bible is "age" in place of "time", and so there is talk of "end of the age", so the matter at hand is some age, a period of time... - so here we proved again that there will be some end even for the true Saints, albeit after (let's say) myriads of consecutive eternities, and this is because there is a transition even for the true God, otherwise, if there wasn't such, there would really be infinitely lasting(endless) life in heaven/paradise for all souls, in the course of the whole time's infinity, but, alas, here is how many souls have already been born and suffered in this world under sin, which is an indication that there is no completely endless life for any soul (just because there cannot be such life - it is just impossible even for God to provide the souls with such life)...

Blessings
 
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mmksparbud

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man, if you really want that we reason out these things, then let's think properly (on them), being aware that the greatest punishment is for the false prophets, so if any of us is not quite sure about something, then let's he or she not be hasty to express their opinion on that thing thus imposing a misbelief, but first be quick to reflect on it right enough, because what's the point to explain repeatedly to someone that e.g. 2+2=4 if he or she continues to deny it and even to impose something else instead of it (e.g. that 2+2=5)?!, in principle, i also prefer that there be indefinitely lasting life in heaven/paradise, that is absolutely endless for every soul, i.e. throughout the (whole) time's infinity, but the facts are obviously different, and so the truth too, and the truth is important, i personally cannot afford (to be more precise, don't dare) to change it, moreover, it can't be changed in the mind of God at all, and the worst thing is that such a change can, God forbid, be catastrophic/cause very great cataclysm(s) of world scale...

yes, God is not just indefinitely existing, but indefinitely living - He never passes completely and permanently, but this doesn't mean there is no transition for Him, and whatever it is said in the biblical scriptures, it is said on the basis of all that doctrine which is explained therein (throughout the Bible), for example Jesus says in the Gospels that every thing impossible with men is possible for God, but is He talking about every thing that a man could want?!, because there were a lot of people that even wanted to kill, rape, rob, and, in general, to do things that are harmful or painful to their neighbor(cohabitant/townsman), but of course the true God can't afford to support such acts, or let's take for example the case of the so-called omnipotence paradox of the stone, namely, could an omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that even they could not lift it?!, so why must the true God create such a rock at all?!, He is the system Administrator of life, not a sorcerer, conjurer, juggler or clown, but not-a-few humans were ready to ask Him to do such things, also, did Jesus ever ask His Heavenly Father to perform magic tricks?!, of course not, but there were not-a-few people ready to ask Him to do such things, and why must the true God perform magic tricks at all, especially when there are still many that need to be saved(cleansed/healed/recovered/resurrected)?!, therefore Jesus, as well as each of His true disciples presented in the Bible, saved people needing salvation, and didn't perform magic tricks, though they were also impossible for many - so here we proved that Jesus hardly meant quite literally all things that the human imagination could want when He said that all things impossible with men are possible for God

let's take for example another case, e.g. the Jesus' saying: "I am with you every day, even unto the end of time. Amen"(Matthew 28:20, Aramaic Bible), what end of time is He talking about, because He says He will be always with His true disciples until the end of time?!, which means there will be a time when He will be no longer with them, i.e. after the time during which He will be with them every day, the word in other versions of the Bible is "age" in place of "time", and so there is talk of "end of the age", so the matter at hand is some age, a period of time... - so here we proved again that there will be some end even for the true Saints, albeit after (let's say) myriads of consecutive eternities, and this is because there is a transition even for the true God, otherwise, if there wasn't such, there would really be infinitely lasting(endless) life in heaven/paradise for all souls, in the course of the whole time's infinity, but, alas, here is how many souls have already been born and suffered in this world under sin, which is an indication that there is no completely endless life for any soul (just because there cannot be such life - it is just impossible even for God to provide the souls with such life)...

Blessings


Just exactly what is it you're trying to say!!?? I have no idea how your statement relates to what I posted.
 
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Neogaia777

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Rejection of the Genesis account as mere myth strikes at the very heart of Christianity for the following reasons.

1. Jesus himself is described as lending it historical credence
2. Peter. Paul, Jude, Luke, Mathew, John, specifically lend it historical credence
3. It removes the basis for the theme of paradise lost to paradise regained.
4. It removes the need for redemption and a redeemer-the fall of man from original perfection.
5. It strikes at Jesus' authenticity as the Son of God by describing him as gullible and a propagator of mere myth.


These five things alone are extremely serious reasons why Christians are opposed to accepting the anti biblical demonically inspired, propaganda which has become popular during these last days.
I do not think it is "myth" but I do think it is symbolic of a kind or type of reality we don't yet understand fully, nor can comprehend fully yet, and is a historical account, in that aspect... Not literal in the sense of what we know as literal in other words... Also, in other words, is actual or real...

God Bless!
 
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