Why Abortion should never be Outlawed!! (an honest, personal eperience) TRUTH!!!!
- Thread starter MyrokRolles
- Start date
mdancin4theLord
Well-Known Member
You had a picture of buttons with sayings on them......
One said........Pro-family, pro-children, pro-choice.
This is laughable. You can't be pro-choice and say that you are pro-children. The fact that you are a pro-abort...based on choice....says that you want abortion LEGAL SO THAT SOME WOMEN HAVE THE CHOICE TO KILL.
You are not pro-life...pro-children.....you are pro-abortion.
It is sad to know to think that you would be pro-abortion even until natural delivery. So so sad. You say no woman should be forced to go through a pregnancy that she does not want to continue....this would also mean you would condone a late term abortion. I mean playin devils adovacate here....you would not want to enslave someone who does not want to be pregnant...right? It would be hypocritical to say your pro-choice and deny any woman the right to kill......throughout the entire nine months.
How sad, especially because you say you are a Christian.
Would you mind showing me scripture and making Gods case for abortion.
Upvote
0
mdancin4theLord
Well-Known Member
Progress you say. Progress for the unborn would be to ban outlaw abortion. Now that would please and honor God. Don't you think?
Upvote
0
mdancin4theLord
Well-Known Member
From what I have read...they even use euthanasia on children.
Once assisted suicide is legalized, it will be impossible to contain. It will become impossible to protect the vulnerable and mentally ill. Its really then death on demand and families will abuse this. They will be able to just drop grandma off at the death mill and say goodbye. The elderly will feel pressured to die to save their families money. Most people want to die at this age because they are depressed...not at deaths door. Pain can be controlled today...but to kill someone is not our decision to make. God will take us when He is ready.
Where does it say in scriptures to kill the elderly or mentally handicapped?
Like using abortion only for the tough cases…those promoting assisted suicide promised Oregon voters... said that it would be used only for extreme pain and suffering. Yet there has been NO documented case of assisted suicide used for untreatable pain. Instead patients are being given lethal overdoes because of psychological and social concerns, especially fears that they may no longer be valued as people or may be a burden to their families.
“National studies show that among patients requesting assisted suicides, DEPRESSION is the only factor that significantly predicts the request for death.”
(Fifth Annual Report on Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act, Oregon Department of Human Services; Office of Disease Prevention and Epidemiology, March 6, 1003)
The Oregon Health Division issues a yearly summary of assisted suicide using information derived from prescribing doctors. NO supporting documentation or independent evaluation is provided to determine the assisted suicide was performed in accordance with the LAW. ALL INFORMATION IS FORBIDDEN TO INSPECTION.
They say they have no way to detect doctors who fail to report assisted deaths or commit other violations of the law. I know this because last year we had a pro-life doctor from Oregon state come and lecture on what is happening in Oregon.
“Sixty-seven percent of suicides are because of psychiatric depression. By Oregon’s fifth year only 13% of suicide victims received psychiatric counseling. Social isolation and concerns about loss of autonomy and control over bodily function were the causes of suicide.”
(Foley and Hendin, “The Oregon Report, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” Hastings Center Report, May-June 1999)
I have been reading up on the Netherlands....
Euthanasia has expanded to infants, the depressed and the chronically ill. (Herbert Hendin MD, Chris Rutenfrans PHD and Zbigniew Zylicz MD, “Physicians-Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia in the Netherlands”, JAMA, June 4, 1997 vol.277, No 21, p. 1720)
Children as young as 12 with parental consent and those as young as 16 with parental notification can assess euthanasia. (Associated Press, Reuters, BBC, November 28,2000)
“80% of euthanasia deaths are NOT requested by the patient. (Herbert Hendin MD, Chris Rutenfrans PHD and Zbigniew Zylicz MD, “Physicians-Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia in the Netherlands”, JAMA, June 4, 1997
“Virtually every guideline set up by the Dutch has failed to protect patients or has been modified or violated. (Suzanne Daley, “The Dutch Seek to Legalize Long-Tolerated Euthanasia” New York Times, June 20,2000, p.A10)
No one has the right to take a life, unless it is for self defense or to protect someone. What physicians should do is to make life pain free, not to kill.
Upvote
0
lol. Sadly I must agree with this. I'm happy so many people on here don't determine my fate. God is the final judge to me and I don't think he wants women to suffer needlessly. To the OP, I'll pray for you, you had to endure difficult decisions.
Upvote
0
Not when that would ultimately result in more widespread death from the skyrocketing frequencies of back-alley coat-hanger/hoover abortions.
Upvote
0
A
AllieBaba2012
Guest
Another fallacy.
There is absolutely no evidence that back alley coat/hanger/hoover abortions would skyrocket. And in fact, "skyrocket" is relative. There were a remarkably tiny number of deaths from botched abortions (maybe 100 but I think like 37) the year before abortion was legalized.
And this assumption is based on the ridiculous belief that all women who seek abortions would #1, still get pregnant if abortion was illegal, and #2, get an abortion if it was illegal.
Essentially, the assumption is that the women who seek abortion are so stupid and so criminal that the fact that abortion is ILLEGAL will make no difference to them, that they are THAT committed to getting one.
Not true.
Please provide the stats that show how the number of botched abortion deaths would skyrocket if abortions were illegal? You made the claim, you back it up.
Upvote
0
A
AllieBaba2012
Guest
What sort of pain is unmanageable? I've worked in a nursing home, I worked as a caseworker for SPD..I've never seen any pain that is unmanageable.
Late stage cancer is pretty painful for a while before death...and they generally opt for morphine which renders them unconscious and often hastens their death by slowing their breathing.
Doctors have been helping people to die in this way since time began. There's no need to legalize murder to accomodate it.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
99percentatheism
Well-Known Member
Her "sister" had the abortion. Because . . . having the sick child would make her life difficult. There was no risk presented to the mother's life at all other than a difficult child.
My "rebuddle" is sound logic.
You need to do the homework sir.
You need to read the rule on flaiming too. Obviously you didn't understand it if you read.
Upvote
0
99percentatheism
Well-Known Member
By the way, if you had read my "rebuddle" in my post, you would heve seen that above it I reprinted the OP.
Why not try your own rebuddle of my positions K?
The thread derail technique I'm sure brings a satisfying feeling deep inside, but it does little to explore the nature of the attempt at justification for the unjustifiable action of abortion.
Try to stay calm.
Upvote
0
razeontherock
Well-Known Member
It'll never happen, right or wrong. Why fight a futile battle? Pick a winnable battle instead.
Upvote
0
mdancin4theLord
Well-Known Member
You obviously have not done research in this area.
Since 90% of pre-1973 illegal abortions were done by doctors, its safe to assume many physicians would continue to give abortions.
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
From the book, Pro-life Answers to Pro-choice Questions, by Randy Alcorn
173.
For decades prior to abortion being legalized in the United States around 85% of illegal abortions were done by reputable doctors in their local clinics.
Alfred Kinsey, Abortion Questions and Answers (Cincinnati, Ohio: Hayes Publishing
Co., 1988), 169.
I am going to quote what PlannedParenthood said about the coat hanger hype.
In 1960, Planned Parenthood stated that 90% of all illegal abortions are presently done by physicians.
Mary Calderone, Illegal Abortion as a Public Health Problem, American Journal of Health 50 (July 1960): 949
Research confirms that the actual number of abortion deaths in the 25 year prior to 1973 averaged 250 a year, with a high of 388 in 1948.
In 1966 before the state legalized abortion, 120 mothers died from abortion.
By 1972, abortion was still illegal in 80% of the country but the use of antibiotics had greatly reduced the risk. The number dropped to 39 maternal deaths from abortion that year.
U.S Bureau of Vital Statistics
The information and statistics do NOT back up what you say. The coat hanger argument is just not a truth that would happen. It did not happen prior to Roe.
The myth of the coathanger
"In 1973, there were approximately 106 million women living in the United States, of whom 876,208 died that year. If 20,000 women had died by coathanger, it would have been the seventh leading cause of female death at 18.8 per 100,000, putting it right between diabetes mellititus and arteriosclerosis. In fact, a mere 10,000 deaths by coathanger would have still made the top ten, beating out suicide by a comfortable 2,090 female corpses."
" the claim that thousands of women died each year in America before the 1973 decision to legalise abortion is simply not true. Bernard Nathanson ought to know. He was a leading abortionist during this period having performed 60,000 abortions and helped to make up this figure of 5,000 to 10,000 deaths a year: I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose the others did too if they stopped to think of it. But in the morality of our revolution, it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics? The overriding concern was to get the laws eliminated, and anything within reason that had to be done was permissible."If women had been dying of complications related to illegal abortions, one would expect to see a decline in the female death rate starting in 1974. And that is exactly what an examination of the statistics shows! From 1971 to 1973, the female American death rate averaged 806.13 per 100,000. But in the seven years after the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, that rate declined to an average of 768.25 deaths per 100,000 women. This would seem to indicate that 4.9 percent fewer women were dying, which could suggest that coathangers were responsible for almost 43,000 annual deaths!'
[FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+2]The myth of the coathanger[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1]Posted: July 24, 2006
1:00 am Eastern
[/SIZE]
[FONT=Palatino, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times, serif]By Vox Day[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1]© 2011 [/SIZE]
It is intriguing to learn that even now, some educated and intelligent individuals worry that restricted access to abortion will lead to a large number of women dying as the result of illegal abortions. Indeed, the coathanger remains a favored icon of feminists, who brandish it as a symbol of anti-abortion activists' purported indifference to women's lives.
What is so amusing about this is that abortionettes might as reasonably brandish a narwhal's horn for fear of the unicorns that will inevitably reappear when abortion is banned. And it will eventually be banned, of this you can be sure, as the demographics curve begins to threaten age- and income-based transfer payments, as Third World migration pressure increases and as sex selection technology becomes cheaper and more reliable.
For as we have already seen in India and the United Kingdom, the realities of prenatal sex selection technology are capable of overwhelming the enthusiasm for abortion of even the most die-hard women's rights advocate.
But those concerned about the consequences of the coming abortion bans need not trouble themselves about the theoretical problem of women surreptitiously scraping out their insides with coathangers. Not only is there no evidence of numerous American women having died from self-inflicted abortions in the past, there is no evidence of women who live in countries where abortion is currently banned dying from them either.
This is easily demonstrated in a variety of ways. In 1973, there were approximately 106 million women living in the United States, of whom 876,208 died that year. If 20,000 women had died by coathanger, it would have been the seventh leading cause of female death at 18.8 per 100,000, putting it right between diabetes mellititus and arteriosclerosis. In fact, a mere 10,000 deaths by coathanger would have still made the top ten, beating out suicide by a comfortable 2,090 female corpses.
Of course, it is always possible that these deaths were disguised or improperly reported. There were, after all, 19,782 women recorded in the ''All other accidents'' category, and it's also possible that sympathetic coroners might have made a habit of misrepresenting the actual cause of death in such cases. In order to deal with this possibility, it is necessary to examine the female death rate in toto.
If women had been dying of complications related to illegal abortions, one would expect to see a decline in the female death rate starting in 1974. And that is exactly what an examination of the statistics shows! From 1971 to 1973, the female American death rate averaged 806.13 per 100,000. But in the seven years after the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, that rate declined to an average of 768.25 deaths per 100,000 women. This would seem to indicate that 4.9 percent fewer women were dying, which could suggest that coathangers were responsible for almost 43,000 annual deaths!
Of course, the key word in that sentence is ''seem.'' Statistics are always dangerous in the hands of the half-informed, to say nothing of the disingenuous and dishonest.
What blows that notion away is that as female deaths declined by about 5 percent, male deaths declined even more rapidly, by 8 percent, in the same time frame. So, unless sapient, murderously minded coathangers were wreaking havoc on men and women alike before disappearing mysterously in 1974, one can only conclude that there were other explanations for this reduced female mortality. And sure enough, the delta in the death rates for cancer, murder and heart disease are more than enough to account for the overall decline.
Unfortunately, the fact that there were never any significant number of American women dying from illegal abortions has not prevented abortionettes from repeating their favorite and second-most effective lie as they do their best to bring the gift of infanticide to the rest of the globe."
[SIZE=-1]Posted: July 24, 2006
1:00 am Eastern
[/SIZE]
[FONT=Palatino, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times, serif]By Vox Day[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1]© 2011 [/SIZE]
It is intriguing to learn that even now, some educated and intelligent individuals worry that restricted access to abortion will lead to a large number of women dying as the result of illegal abortions. Indeed, the coathanger remains a favored icon of feminists, who brandish it as a symbol of anti-abortion activists' purported indifference to women's lives.
What is so amusing about this is that abortionettes might as reasonably brandish a narwhal's horn for fear of the unicorns that will inevitably reappear when abortion is banned. And it will eventually be banned, of this you can be sure, as the demographics curve begins to threaten age- and income-based transfer payments, as Third World migration pressure increases and as sex selection technology becomes cheaper and more reliable.
For as we have already seen in India and the United Kingdom, the realities of prenatal sex selection technology are capable of overwhelming the enthusiasm for abortion of even the most die-hard women's rights advocate.
But those concerned about the consequences of the coming abortion bans need not trouble themselves about the theoretical problem of women surreptitiously scraping out their insides with coathangers. Not only is there no evidence of numerous American women having died from self-inflicted abortions in the past, there is no evidence of women who live in countries where abortion is currently banned dying from them either.
This is easily demonstrated in a variety of ways. In 1973, there were approximately 106 million women living in the United States, of whom 876,208 died that year. If 20,000 women had died by coathanger, it would have been the seventh leading cause of female death at 18.8 per 100,000, putting it right between diabetes mellititus and arteriosclerosis. In fact, a mere 10,000 deaths by coathanger would have still made the top ten, beating out suicide by a comfortable 2,090 female corpses.
Of course, it is always possible that these deaths were disguised or improperly reported. There were, after all, 19,782 women recorded in the ''All other accidents'' category, and it's also possible that sympathetic coroners might have made a habit of misrepresenting the actual cause of death in such cases. In order to deal with this possibility, it is necessary to examine the female death rate in toto.
If women had been dying of complications related to illegal abortions, one would expect to see a decline in the female death rate starting in 1974. And that is exactly what an examination of the statistics shows! From 1971 to 1973, the female American death rate averaged 806.13 per 100,000. But in the seven years after the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, that rate declined to an average of 768.25 deaths per 100,000 women. This would seem to indicate that 4.9 percent fewer women were dying, which could suggest that coathangers were responsible for almost 43,000 annual deaths!
Of course, the key word in that sentence is ''seem.'' Statistics are always dangerous in the hands of the half-informed, to say nothing of the disingenuous and dishonest.
What blows that notion away is that as female deaths declined by about 5 percent, male deaths declined even more rapidly, by 8 percent, in the same time frame. So, unless sapient, murderously minded coathangers were wreaking havoc on men and women alike before disappearing mysterously in 1974, one can only conclude that there were other explanations for this reduced female mortality. And sure enough, the delta in the death rates for cancer, murder and heart disease are more than enough to account for the overall decline.
Unfortunately, the fact that there were never any significant number of American women dying from illegal abortions has not prevented abortionettes from repeating their favorite and second-most effective lie as they do their best to bring the gift of infanticide to the rest of the globe."
Nathanson goes on to describe the real figures: In 1967 the federal government listed only 160 deaths from illegal abortion. In the last year before [Roe v Wade], 1972, the total was only 39 deaths. While 39 is too many, the figure must be held up to the 1.5 million babies killed each year in the US since 1973.'
Excuses......not fact from the pro-death to unborn children camp.
Upvote
0
mdancin4theLord
Well-Known Member
With God and standing on the Word....anything is possible. I will never give up, never. Jesus never gave up on me.....and I will not give up standing on the Word...and trying to save unborn babies.
If just one child could be saved from being dismembered alive, it would be worth it.
It is to bad you have no faith that this could happen.
I do know this......that God says, no He promises that all will account for every word and deed. So the Christians who stand before Him who were pro-choice....will answer. What excuse will they give, when God asks why they did not defend one of His own?
Every unborn murdered will get justice....when God shows His wrath against those that mocked Him.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
razeontherock
Well-Known Member
What makes you think that picking a wise battle will not save more lives than picking the battle you embrace? Why do you ignore that many children have been spared from being dismembered alive by some of the battles already won? And why do you flame me by pretending I am pro choice?
Upvote
0
mdancin4theLord
Well-Known Member
Well killing is killing isnt it? Who are you or anyone else...to tell someone even as little as a fetus...that THEY THINK.....THINK, they would be better off dead than to face....things after they are born that MIGHT.....MIGHT happen.
So could you provide a list (in order of course)...of reasons that would be acceptable for women to abort.
Example...............
Woman is going to school
Woman does not know who fathered the child
Woman does not want to lose her 36-24-36 figure
Woman already has to many children
Woman found out unborn might have a cleft palate or another abnormality
Woman found out baby is the wrong sex
Womans boyfriend wants her to abort
Woman is short on funds
Woman was raped
Incest
etc...etc....etc....
I am not including health of mother...because if her life is threatened which happens in less than 1% of all abortions...that is another case. Most times both can be saved.
Just what is a poor reason....in your opinion. And in which case here...is the child at fault and deserves to die for sad reason?
Upvote
0
mdancin4theLord
Well-Known Member
I believe that the unborn have no voice. Someone needs to stand up for them. There are elements in society that are weak and preyed upon...that need help the unborn are just one.
I have worked on the field for over eleven years now. I am in the front lines...I see what goes on ....on both sides. I know the Lord....I also know Satan......I choose the Lord. I believe that Christ would want all believers to stand up for children both in and out of the womb. I believe the scripture shows that God loves the child in the womb......but why wouldnt He, He is the creator. I think God is appaulled at the Church that ignores this issue.
I do not ignore children.
ARe you pro-choice? If you are pro-choice...you are pro-abortion.
If you are not, I apologize.
Upvote
0
razeontherock
Well-Known Member
Apology accepted. Picking a battle that can be won; i.e., not illegalization of abortion, =/= ignoring the issue. Picking a battle that can be won =/= failing to stand up for children both in and out of the womb.
Btw, I produced a TV show that aired "Silent Scream," circa 1986.
It is possible to have public funding removed from abortion. It is possible to have minor children who seek the procedure to need informed parents, if not parental consent. Even if the minor child can pay for it herself. Please stop to consider how much headway would be made with these measures! These battles could be won, short-term.
Attempting to have abortion illegalized merely mobilizes our opposition and inflames them.
Btw, I produced a TV show that aired "Silent Scream," circa 1986.
It is possible to have public funding removed from abortion. It is possible to have minor children who seek the procedure to need informed parents, if not parental consent. Even if the minor child can pay for it herself. Please stop to consider how much headway would be made with these measures! These battles could be won, short-term.
Attempting to have abortion illegalized merely mobilizes our opposition and inflames them.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Similar threads
