Why Abortion is Immoral

[VirOptimus]

Yes abortion is immoral. That is a clear absolute. However those who say taking the life of another human being for purposes other than saving another life have to explain their morals.

Plus I thought atheists did not ascribe to morals but subjective situational ethics.

This post shows that you know nothing about atheists, nor moral philosophy. Not all atheists are alike.

I dont belive in subjective or objective, neither do I belive that moral absolutes exist.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The question as to when the physical material dimension of a human being begins is strictly a scientific question, and fundamentally should be answered by human embryologists�not by philosophers, bioethicists, theologians, politicians, x-ray technicians, movie stars, or obstetricians and gynecologists. The question as to when a human person begins is a philosophical question. Current discussions on abortion, human embryo research (including cloning, stem cell research, and the formation of mixed-species chimeras), and the use of abortifacients involve specific claims as to when the life of every human being begins. If the "science" used to ground these various discussions is incorrect, then any conclusions will be rendered groundless and invalid. The purpose of this article is to focus primarily on a sampling of the "scientific" myths, and on the objective scientific facts that ought to ground these discussions. At least it will clarify what the actual international consensus of human embryologists is with regard to this relatively simple scientific question. In the final section, I will also address some "scientific" myths that have caused much confusion within the philosophical discussions on "personhood."

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/wdhbb.html

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]


"I would say that among most scientists, the word 'embryo' includes the time from after fertilization..."
[Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31]


"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which thespermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]


"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]


"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]


"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed withinfemale and malepronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]


"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and M�ller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]


"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

@Uncle Siggy how many times now?

When did I start? Arguably at the moment of conception, and I'm a person. But that is looking at my whole person over extended time. Embryos that terminate their life before developing an adequate brain never become persons.

The prophet Job described that situation as simply being non-existant.

Job 3:16
6 "Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be,
As infants that never saw light.
NASU

 

[redleghunter]

No, your argument is in fact very weak, its neither scientific nor philosophical. As you can see from other posters in the thread noone is fooled. I will not debate this with you further as you cannot use honest tactics.

LOL. sure. I quote and link papers by scientists and get the shoulder shrug.

I accept your capitulation.

 

[redleghunter]

This post shows that you know nothing about atheists, nor moral philosophy. Not all atheists are alike.

I dont belive in subjective or objective, neither do I belive that moral absolutes exist.

So your morals are a matter of opinion. Noted and makes sense.

 

[VirOptimus]

So your morals are a matter of opinion. Noted and makes sense.

Everybodys morals is nothing more than an opinion.

 

[redleghunter]

When did I start? Arguably at the moment of conception, and I'm a person. But that is looking at my whole person over extended time. Embryos that terminate their life before developing an adequate brain never become persons.

The prophet Job described that situation as simply being non-existant.

Job 3:16
6 "Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be,
As infants that never saw light.
NASU

Yes and Job is corrected for his limited knowledge much later on starting in chapter 38.

 

[redleghunter]

Everybodys morals is nothing more than an opinion.

That would be a good OP for an atheist to argue on another thread.

 

[KCfromNC]

Well she is correct. Human life begins at conception.

If only the confidence in and the correctness of one's guesses were related in any way.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Some of these discussions are like trying to reason with a tape recorder.

Yeah, I'm getting tired of running in his illogical (or intellectually dishonest) circles.

You just have to admit to yourself that some people are incapable of processing information past what ridiculous things they have stuck in their heads and move on...

 

[redleghunter]

If only the confidence in and the correctness of one's guesses were related in any way.

If only one would read.

 

[redleghunter]

Yeah, I'm getting tired of running in his illogical (or intellectually dishonest) circles.

You just have to admit to yourself that some people are incapable of processing information past what ridiculous things they have stuck in their heads and move on...

I accept your capitulation as you have not offered anything in rebuttal to the scientific evidence presented.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I accept your capitulation as you have not offered anything in rebuttal to the scientific evidence presented.

Lol. Whatever makes you feel better dude...

 

[redleghunter]

 

[Uncle Siggy]

@Uncle Siggy how many times now?

I've lost count, I think you're wasting your breath some people just don't want to learn. If it was any other subject they would be counting on science to back their argument, this one science can go take a hike...

 

[Uncle Siggy]

I thought you were more a fan of the Twilight Zone, guess I was wrong...

 

[Uncle Siggy]

So your morals are a matter of opinion. Noted and makes sense.

Is this the same concept as the Selective Definition Dictionary???

 

[redleghunter]

I thought you were more a fan of the Twilight Zone, guess I was wrong...

Thought the thread needed a laugh

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Thought the thread needed a laugh

There's one out there somewhere about people who look like their dogs...