Why a Christian in Texas is Voting for Beto

Ed Parenteau · Nov 4, 2022

David_S42 said:
You can vote for Democrat or republican, that doesn't change what is your faith. No political party have any monopoly over religion. I know in some part of US, if you don't vote certain way then they will question your faith. Well, if you are Christian, your faith is in Jesus Christ, and you became Christian by faith , and faith alone. You are not Christian because who you vote.

Speaking of being Pro-Life, Pro-Life is not limited to "unborn babies" alone like many Christians in America like to describe. Pro-life means taking care the poor, taking care the widow and orphan, taking care the sick, give shelter and refuge to foreigner (like illegal immigrants). Pro-life means during the height of the pandemic , put a mask on to save fellow citizen, pro life means during the deadly pandemic , take the lifesaving vaccine to prevent more death. And yes, pro-life also means saving unborn babies.

Then I might suggest ranking those in importance and making a biblical argument for each. For instance, God can also use the foreigner(illegal immigrant) to judge a nation such as Ezekiel 7 which sounds a lot like today to me.
20 They transformed the beauty of His ornaments into pride, and they made the images of their abominations and their detestable things with it; therefore I will make it an abhorrent thing to them. 21 I will give it into the hands of the foreigners as plunder and to the wicked of the earth as spoil, and they will profane it. 22 I will also turn My face from them, and they will profane My secret place; then robbers will enter and profane it.
23 ‘Make the chain, for the land is full of bloody crimes and the city is full of violence. 24 Therefore, I will bring the worst of the nations, and they will possess their houses. I will also make the pride of the strong ones cease, and their holy places will be profaned. 25 When anguish comes, they will seek peace, but there will be none. 26 Disaster will come upon disaster and rumor will be added to rumor; then they will seek a vision from a prophet, but the law will be lost from the priest and counsel from the elders. 27 The king will mourn, the prince will be clothed with horror, and the hands of the people of the land will tremble. According to their conduct I will deal with them, and by their judgments I will judge them. And they will know that I am the Lord.’”

The Barbarian · Nov 4, 2022

Brother-Mike said:
Indeed, the murder of anyone does make me angry. As do people who vote for candidates that directly seek to decriminalize murder.

I notice that red states average much higher murder rates than blue states. But I don't think that republicans "directly seek to decriminalize murder."

They just aren't very good at preventing them.

The Barbarian · Nov 4, 2022

That's an important point. My right to swing my arm ends where your nose begins. The law isn't there to make us good; it's there to keep us from harming others.

HARK! said:
Killing babies is harming others.

The baby, for example.

HARK! said:
Well you'll see soon enough how Texans feel about a man who wants to take your guns and allow baby killing.

It's surprising to see that a guy like Beto is now in a statistical tie with Abbot. I think Abbot will win, but his bungling of the power grid, Uvalde killings, etc. Have hurt him a lot.

I don't think that overturning Roe v. Wade will make the kind of difference in Texas that it seems to be making elsewhere. Texas is very pro-life. And in the end, that should give Gov. Greg the win.

Brother-Mike · Nov 4, 2022

The Barbarian said:
I notice that red states average much higher murder rates than blue states. But I don't think that republicans "directly seek to decriminalize murder."

They just aren't very good at preventing them.

You raise a point that is worthy of deeper analysis and discussion BUT is respectfully besides the point being made here.

Abortion is murder.
Beto is pro-abortion, vowing to fight for the cause.
Voting for Beto is a vote for murder. The same would be true for voting for any other politician, red or blue, that holds the same position.

HARK! · Nov 4, 2022

The Barbarian said:
I notice that red states average much higher murder rates than blue states. But I don't think that republicans "directly seek to decriminalize murder."

They just aren't very good at preventing them.

The “red state murder problem” claim also ignores that the scope of the murder problem in blue cities (particularly in the small slices of the neighborhoods where a given city’s crime concentrates) is much bigger than it is in suburban, exurban, and rural America.

Criminal homicide is primarily (which does not mean entirely) a problem that resides within large cities. The 50 largest cities in America, home to 15.3% of the country’s population, saw 34.2% of the country’s murders in 2020; 34, or 68%, of the 50 cities had Democratic mayors in 2020, while only 14 (six of which were in blue states that voted for Biden in 2020) had Republican mayors.

The homicide rate in the blue cities was 15.8 per 100,000, compared to 9.4 per 100,000 in the red cities and 10.9 per 100,000 in the two cities with Independent mayors.

Dems' shameless ploy to blame crime rise on 'red states'

JacksBratt · Nov 4, 2022

Clear2LearnFaith said:
I live in Texas and I voted Beto O'Rourke. You may be wondering how a Christian can vote for him.

First, let me tell you that I prayed for God's guidance, and the answer I received is that we as Christians should pray for, teach, mentor, and comfort those who are hurting and facing difficult choices, not try to wrest control from them. I'm not voting for abortion, I'm voting for women to be able to exercise the free will that God gave us all. I'm voting, knowing that we have a two party system and there will be limits set on that freedom. Just as Abbot has been limited by the democrats in congress, so will Beto be limited by the Republicans.

I also voted for Beto because, although I do believe he and the Democratic Party are too extreme, I also believe Abbot and the Republicans are also too extreme and it's time we leaned more towards giving those who were not born into middle and upper class families a better chance to work, to learn, and to succeed. I also know there will be caring Christians and people of other faiths who will work to help women and families find their way, as well as Doctors and other medical staff that will advise them as well, so they can make informed decisions.

Will the right choices always be made? No, but has that ever been the case? We were given free will and taking away someone's right to choose teaches them nothing. Learning from mistakes, and sharing what you’ve learned from those mistakes, does.

If you're truly faith-driven, rather than responding to the panic inciting rhetoric of politicians and the media, let us pray for those who are faced with such choices! Let us pray for politicians, and doctors! Let us pray for young men and women who are irresponsibly using sex as a cheap substitute for love and marriage. Let us pray for those who are victims of rape and incest, and also pray for those who are evil, disturbed, and closed off from God that would want to or have committed rape or other such evil acts.

Rather than fighting so hard to prevent abortion, which is just a symptom of our societal ills, let us rather focus on the true illness: a world where we have raised our children to be undisciplined, selfish, and overly emotional tyrants who are addicted to cheap thrills and instant gratification.

Have you listened to popular music? Have you heard how vulgar, how lewd it is? Have you done a simple search, mentioning just one key word like sex or a body part, and seen how many porn videos come up? It's shocking easily, too easy, and the only thing stopping young, impressionable children from seeing what they shouldn't is a simple check box that you click on to assert that you are "at least 18 years of age."

Let us fight to ban the easy access to porn, and to set standards for music and video. Let us volunteer and mentor young people who don't have strong father or mother figures in their lives. Let us teach our children respect and obedience, and not fall prey to the mindsets and beliefs that are displayed in popular culture, reality television, and the media. Instead let us teach them that happiness does not come from getting your way all the time, but rather from self-discipline, good work, mutual respect, and service to God and others.

So my fellow Christians, let us humbly pray for guidance, and pray for discernment. Pray for God to guide you and then give you the strength and faith to believe, to listen, and do God's will in this world and in your life. Vote and live as God calls you to live. Vote for your children and for our world and let no one dissuade you. Not even me!

If voting for anyone is a vote for someone who allows women the choice to kill an innocent defenseless child.. I could not vote for them.

It's the work of the enemy.
If you climbed a tree and took the egg of a bald eagle and broke it.. you would probably be thrown in prison.. But, kill a baby in the womb..... meh.

The Barbarian · Nov 4, 2022

HARK! said:
The “red state murder problem” claim also ignores that the scope of the murder problem in blue cities

All urban areas have higher homicide rates. But enforcement and other factors are controlled by state laws. This is why red states have much higher murder rates than most blue states.

Tulsa has a higher murder rate than New York City. Not because the police in Tulsa are incompetent; it's because of the way the state is governed.

In fact, of last years 65 cities with the highest murder rates:
48 were in red states
5 were in purple states
12 were in blue states
Murder map: Deadliest U.S. cities

HARK! · Nov 4, 2022

The Barbarian said:
All urban areas have higher homicide rates. But enforcement and other factors are controlled by state laws. This is why red states have much higher murder rates than most blue states.

The statistics demonstrate that those blue cites within the red states are inflating the numbers for red states; but I can understand why some who lean blue might want to sweep that detail under the carpet.

Ed Parenteau · Nov 5, 2022

David_S42 said:
I am confused, you want to rank Biblical teaching by "importance"?

It seemed to me you made an equivalence argument with several assertions and compared them to the murder of an innocent human being in the first stages of life. What I mean is to make "your" argument from scripture regarding your assertion of equivalence. And if you weren't making an equivalence argument, then rank them in importance with understanding from scripture so someone could make a decision regarding voting for someone as per the Opening Post. It doesn't regard salvation as you well stated, but rather the good stewardship of what God has given us.

The Barbarian · Nov 6, 2022

HARK! said:
The statistics demonstrate that those blue cites within the red states are inflating the numbers for red states;

If you're correct, wouldn't the blue cities in blue states do that even more? Don't see why they wouldn't. Homicide in each state is due to the laws and culture of each state. Cities will always have more homicides, but of course that can't account for the fact that Oklahoma has a higher homicide rate (9.0) than New York (4.7). It's laws and culture that determine homicide rates. BTW Chicago (blue state) has a homicide rate of 18.26 and St. Louis (red state) has a rate of 64.54.

In fact, of the top ten cities with highest homicide rates, 8 are in red states, 1 is in a blue state, and 1 is in a purple state (Michigan). Ironically, the numbers are even worse for red states when you compare their cities to cities in blue states.
Murder map: Deadliest U.S. cities

But I can understand why some who lean red might want to sweep the under the carpet. Cities in red states tend to have higher homicide rates than cities in blue states, just as red states have higher homicide rates than blue states. The relationship remains, regardless. Apples to apples.

The Barbarian · Nov 6, 2022

David_S42 said:
fact abortion was commonly practiced in Roman times yet, early Christian never talked about abortion. Early Christians talked about adultery, fornication, idolatry or even what kind of meat can be eaten, but they never talked about abortion. Only in past 50 years some Christians found new doctrine call “pro-life” .

To be fair, people in ancient and medieval times did not know when life began. In the Middle Ages, it was considered to begin at the first quickening, when the mother felt movement. Today, we have the benefit of science, which shows that a genetically unique person begins at conception.

Clear2LearnFaith · Nov 6, 2022

Otherwise why not just surrender the half-baked and grotesque rationale and be clear about your position: a fellow person created in the image of God has zero value, is not worth our protection but rather the correct Christian action is instead to support candidates who actively pursue this murder.[/QUOTE]

I see where you're coming from, but my rationale is neither half-baked nor grotesque. Nothing in this world is purely black and white. Let me be clear, I detest the idea of abortion as the means of simply avoiding the inconvenience of birthing and raising a child, but extreme cases involving life or death consequences should be between God, the parents, and the doctors. As I stated, the Republicans would limit such freedoms and not let just anyone walk in and have an abortion. Further, and in my opinion most importantly, we need to shift our focus towards how we raised our children and what we make available to them! Children from "Good Families" are often spoiled rotten, and those from families of lesser means are neglected and abused.

We need Christians who are there to mentor kids, and we need to change our culture! We need to make porn much more difficult to access, and we need strict guidelines on music and video because, especially in our 21st century world, life is very much imitating art. The singers, rappers, actors, and content creators in music, TV shows, and most forms of video are now young people's role models, not their families! Listen to today's vulgar popular music, watch the shows they watch, and prepare to be disgusted and horrified! They are mostly about being hyper sexual, putting your feelings first, and being able to act and live as you please. They are about revealing how depraved and dark your feelings and emotions are and finding a way to celebrate your dark side and be happy living your "best life."

Too many kids today want to be rich and sexy, and think that the products of their every whim and desire should be handed to them on a platter, and then grow horribly depressed when they learn that life doesn't really work that way. I should probably just make this into another post, because all people seem to focus on is that I believe that abortion in some instances may be a realistic answer. If we truly want to follow black and white reasoning, then let us make this world a place where ALL CHILDREN have caring adults who love them enough to teach them discipline, morality, integrity, and respect for authority. Let us set limits on their freedoms because they are too young and impressionable to do it for themselves. It may not be realistic today, but pray about it and let God speak to you! We should be working to make that future a reality.

Clear2LearnFaith · Nov 6, 2022

Brother-Mike said:
But don’t get me wrong… I can love you as a brother and simultaneously disagree with you at the same time I mean, you did post this in the “Discussion and Debate” forum after all. I presume you didn’t only expect agreement and chin-scratches.

Same here! Amen! We don't have to agree, and we can still both work for and pray for each other and a better world. I hope and pray that our political parties learn to do the same!

Clear2LearnFaith · Nov 6, 2022

HARK! said:
Well you'll see soon enough how Texans feel about a man who wants to take your guns and allow baby killing.

Yes we will! Amen! And I pray we all vote as our conscience dictates, we abide by what our majority of voters say, and continue to do the work God has called us to do. May God bless you now and always!

Clear2LearnFaith · Nov 6, 2022

The Barbarian said:
That's an important point. My right to swing my arm ends where your nose begins. The law isn't there to make us good; it's there to keep us from harming others.

The baby, for example.

It's surprising to see that a guy like Beto is now in a statistical tie with Abbot. I think Abbot will win, but his bungling of the power grid, Uvalde killings, etc. Have hurt him a lot.

I don't think that overturning Roe v. Wade will make the kind of difference in Texas that it seems to be making elsewhere. Texas is very pro-life. And in the end, that should give Gov. Greg the win.

It will be what will be. I'm glad we're able to debate this and still see God in each other. May God bless you now and always.

The Barbarian · Nov 6, 2022

Clear2LearnFaith said:
It will be what will be. I'm glad we're able to debate this and still see God in each other. May God bless you now and always.

And may He bless and keep you, too. There's not enough of you in America right now. I pray that will change soon.

The Barbarian · Nov 6, 2022

HARK! said:
The statistics demonstrate that those blue cites within the red states are inflating the numbers for red states;

Sorry, that story won't work. As you see, cities in red states have higher homicide rates than cities in blue states. In fact 8 of the 10 cities with the highest homicide rates are in red states.

Which is exactly what you'd expect to see in states with higher homicide rates. And those are red states. Cities inflate homicide rates for states. But cities in red state inflate the numbers more than do cities in blue states. Which is why red states have higher homicide rates.

As you see, homicide rates are a product of laws and culture. And cities don't make laws; states do.

Clear2LearnFaith · Nov 6, 2022

JacksBratt said:
If voting for anyone is a vote for someone who allows women the choice to kill an innocent defenseless child.. I could not vote for them.

It's the work of the enemy.
If you climbed a tree and took the egg of a bald eagle and broke it.. you would probably be thrown in prison.. But, kill a baby in the womb..... meh.

I certainly understand your views, and you're right, we don't place high enough of value on human life! That's why I so strongly feel we need to reform our society and move away from this selfish, instant gratification, way of life our society promotes. We need to take an interest in what children are doing and learning and teach them to think and act better. May God bless you now and always!

Clear2LearnFaith · Nov 6, 2022

Brother-Mike said:
I’ll presume this was for me If not it should have been.

Indeed, the murder of anyone does make me angry. As do people who vote for candidates that directly seek to decriminalize murder.

I did read your entire post, and was responding directly to your own words when I responded. Did I miss something in your second half that negated the quote I pulled?

As for your belief that we need to solve the root problems behind abortion, well, how did that work out? After 49 years since Roe and 63+ million killed (even with declines since the 90s, it’s still 930k killed in 2020) is it working? You wouldn’t solve the problem of drunk driving by saying “okay, first let’s make drunk driving legal, and then let’s aim at fixing the root causes”.

Anyway, the argument isn’t to IGNORE the root problems - nothing is preventing a both-and approach here. But at least as Christians we can’t be giving a green-light to the sin of murder. Or voting for it.

The Barbarian · Nov 7, 2022

David_S42 said:
I am pro-life. I believe life begins at conception and I believe abortion is sin. But I also believe abortion is sin just like any other sins in Bible; fornication, idolatry, greed , lust, pride. Unfortunately today some Christians sums up entire Christianity to one word "pro-life" and the definition of "pro-life" is limited to unborn baby.

You make a lot of sense here.

Why a Christian in Texas is Voting for Beto

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