The universe was not in progress.
Does the bible say that? The universe being the set of all things, where was your god then?
There is no evidence to support the universe-already-in-progress.
How did you reach that conclusion?
False. It is clear that the evidence we currently have supports a beginning to the universe.
Failed. It is clear that what happened "prior" to the instantiation of the cosmos may not be accessible to science.
Yes, you are cherry picking the bible. Are you a Floodist?
The Bible doesn't claim the earth is flat. The scripture you are referring to about the four corners of the earth is talking about the compass directions. This is shown in another part of Isaiah:
Isaiah 43:5-6 "Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, `Give them up!' and to the south, `Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth
Which is a fulfilled prophecy by the way.
From the east: Many Jews living in the Middle East moved to Israel by the early 1900s.
From the west: During mid-1900s, hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the West (Europe and the United States) began moving to Israel.
From the north: The former Soviet Union (Russia) is north of Israel. It refused to allow its Jewish residents to move to Israel. But, after years of pressure from other countries, Russia finally began to allow Jews to return to Israel during the 1980s. So far, hundreds of thousands of Russian Jews have moved to Israel.
From the south: Ethiopia, which is south of Israel, also refused to allow its Jews to return to Israel. But, in 1985, Israel struck a deal with Ethiopia's communist government to allow the Jews of Ethiopia to move to Israel. On the weekend of May 25, 1991, 14,500 Ethiopian Jews were airlifted to Israel.
Isaiah's prophecy was also correct in saying that the north (Russia) and the south (Ethiopia) would have to be persuaded to give up their Jews. Many countries pressured Russia for years before it began to allow its Jews to leave. And Ethiopia had to be paid a ransom to allow its Jews to leave.
Isaiah's prophecy was also correct in saying that the Jews would return "from the ends of the earth," and Isaiah said that many centuries before the Jews had been scattered to the ends of the earth. During the past 100 years, Jews living as far east as China, as far west as the West Coast of the United States, as far north as Scandinavia, and as far south as South Africa, have moved to Israel.
I understand your frustration. The Bible is the living word of God and it is also translated from the original language to others and sometimes the original word doesn't have a corresponding word in our language or the translator used one that can be taken in a different way. It is important to understand that.
Where have you determined that the bible is "Bible is the living word of God"?
Don't answer that. I know you can't in any meaningful way, and that for me to pursue it further is probably in violation of the site rules.
The only frustration I may have is that you have yet to address the problem of falsifiability with your claims.
Do you know what falsifiability is?
If the universe did not have the laws that govern it, we would not be here to observe them.
Yes, the weak anthropic principle. The fallacy is trying to use it to demonstrate design.
It supports Creationism. You may not like it, you may not believe it, but it supports creationism.
What doesn't support creationism? If everything supports "creationism", the word becomes meaningless. Unfalsifiable. Without significance.
Does it give us light? Does it light up the night sky? It doesn't matter that it doesn't produce the light itself. If you want to nit pick, fine.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thepan...-for-saying-the-moon-reflects-the-sun-really/
The predictions would be false if we find the universe always existed. IF the largest portion of the universe was visible and not made up of invisible undetectable "matter" it would prove it false.
I said, as you did not include a way to test or falsify these predictions, there is no point in going further with them.
There is no way to determine if the universe (multiverse?) has or has not always existed, rendering your claim unfalsifiable. Without significance.
I don't think what the bible says matters, but you keep bringing it up.
True. Your claims were neither testable nor falsifiable.
God is responsible for holding the universe together.
Whatever. Another unfalsifiable claim.
You can thank Him when you see him.
Only if you can show the how-to instructions for flush toilets detailed in the bible.
God-of-the-gaps:
"God is responsible for holding the universe together."
I'm glad I have Fred.
Read them. No excuses.
If it can be proven that it is fine tuned according to its existence and the life forms on earth. Which has been tested to be true.
Address my question: By what testable criteria do you determine if something is designed?
No time like the present.
I gave it, you just don't like it.
Not with
"How does one determine that God would be of no significance?".
The onus is on you to establish the existence of, and significance of, your particular choice of gods.
No it isn't. There are numerous details that ToE has no evidence for, but scientists use supportive evidence to support there ideas.
Yes it is. Even in the complete absence of any theories to explain the diversity of biology on this planet, theists like yourself are still on the hook for the responsibility to establish the veracity of their claims.
Well my friend we are only human. Fortunately, there is a way to find out. When we die if I am lying in my grave and totally unaware and there is no after life, I will have no concern if I was wrong. However, if I am right, you will find yourself in God's company and you can make your case to Him. In the mean time, we can all discuss our positions in the best way we can or we can discontinue our conversation. The choice is yours. I believe you have a choice.
Pascal's Wager? lol. How do you know you've got the right god?
It may be consistent and testable but if it is all illusion, you could never know.
And irrelevant, for the purposes of living day to day.
Disappointing.
Don't waste your time.
You get to use the "it's in a book" argument. Why not me?
Our God is a personal God that has made His words known and they can be tested to see if they fit with our reality. In that way He can be detected. He is known by the universe. It is balanced in such a way that you can see His work if you choose to and you can deny it as well. That is the choice that God gave us. You choose to believe there is no God and look at the evidence of the wonder of the universe and think it just is. I look at the wonder of the universe and think how wonderful God is. But we both have the same evidence.
Which is why I asked, are you going to present your evidence in the form of a testable, falsifiable hypothesis, or not? Don't just delete this line from my post as you did last time.
As I have shown so.
I've already answered this.
You have not, other than saying that is was nonsensical. Do you not have free will? Can you choose to not believe in deities for a week? Or a different one?
No problem.
oookkkk
