Whose Side Are You On? The Sabbath Truth

[Byfaithalone1]

It is always interesting to view the words that some find to be important. Along with the sections you highlighted, I find these sections to be compelling (for ease of discussion, I'll not only include verses 17-20 that are of interest to you but also the following chapter as well):

A man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. 17"But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!
18"For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
19"For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
20"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4Did you suffer so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain?
5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
6Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
7Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.
8The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."
9So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."
11Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."
13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--
14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
16Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.
17What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
20Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.
21Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
​

What are your thoughts on the highlighted sections? They seem to be at odds with your world view.

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

Awesome BF1,..I can easily see that you're presenting scriptures without spin, rather than commentary of the scriptures as the truth to apply to understanding. My SDA friends always throw in questions that'll redirect the discussion from Paul's teaching to reasoning what He did not say..........

 

[Byfaithalone1]

My SDA friends always throw in questions that'll redirect the discussion from Paul's teaching to reasoning what He did not say..........

I've seen that too. Have you noticed the use of Romans 3:31 without the surrounding context? When we consider what Paul says -- in the full context -- we gain a much broader and richer perspective:

1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision?
2Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.
3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
4May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
"THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS,
AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED."
5But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.)
6May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world?
7But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?
8And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.
9What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
10as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13"THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14"WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15"THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18"THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. 21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27Where then is boasting? It is excluded By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. 31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. 1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
6just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7"BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN,
AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
8"BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."
9Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
10How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;
11and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,
12and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.
13For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified;
15for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.
16For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
17(as it is written, "A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU") in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.
18In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, "SO SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE."
19Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah's womb;
20yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God,
21and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.
22Therefore IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
23Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him,
24but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.
​

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

Yes indeed.... because the KJV appears to say "we establish the law", they add commentary and isolated this text to teach that Paul said we're to establish the law.

Isn't it a shame that Paul is teaching the opposite in the other 30 verses in that Chapter.

Paul is teaching how God will judge the world and they're ignoring the truthRom 3:6God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?


Rom 3:21¶But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

And concludes....
Rom 3:28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So when the last verse say;
Rom 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


The text is asking Does the doctrine of faith ignors what the law commands? NO... within the doctrine of faith the true law of God is upheld.
They fail to understand that the sabbath is a ceromonial command, and all the other commandments are reiterated as sinful and ungodly acts that people of faith are pursuaded to avoid.
Fact is, the wage of sin is death, and unless you apply the blood of Jesus you will die. ( doing what the law says does not give life)

The law is done away with, because the law condemn death on those who break it. Since the death penalty was paid by Christ it became is powerless to condemn those who live by faith. 1Cr 15:55O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
1Cr 15:57But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


So if we're under the law, we have not trully accepted what Christ has done for us.

 

[VictorC]

I've seen that too. Have you noticed the use of Romans 3:31 without the surrounding context? When we consider what Paul says -- in the full context -- we gain a much broader and richer perspective:
21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. 1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
3For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Romans 3:31 blends in well with the context.

• Romans 3:21 says that the Law and the Prophets are witnesses to righteousness that is imputed by faith, and not compliance to the law.
• Romans 3:31 says that we establish the law.
• Romans 4:3 then identifies that Law by quoting Genesis 15:6. "The law" that Romans 3:31 refers to is the writings of Moses, including the Genesis account that was 430 years before the covenant mediated by Moses existed.

Righteousness is imputed by trusting God in His promises, as attested by the Law's record. As Romans 4:20-25 tells us:

He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.​

There is no support for returning to the covenant mediated by Moses in this passage.
By saying we establish the law, we affirm the reliability of its testimony.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Seventh Day Adventists, at least ones that ground their faith in the pillars and platform of the pioneers, are not interested in finding common ground to ecumenicalize with the world..... thanks anyway.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Seventh Day Adventists, at least ones that ground their faith in the pillars and platform of the pioneers, are not interested in finding common ground to ecumenicalize with the world..... thanks anyway.

I understand and respect that this is your position. I won't try to change it. I'm not sure, however, whether this is the way that all SDAs view non-SDAs. Is it your perspective that -- when SDAism has taken steps toward ecumenicalism -- it has taken steps in the wrong direction?

BFA

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Very much so.... we are given the example as Abrahams seed, that just as Isaac, and jacob and later the Israelites were not to mingle with those outside their faith to keep God's people pure and undefiled.

We know that Rome is calling her daughters back unto herself and that we have been infiltrated by Jesuits for some time now. The fact the last conference president attended the same school at Ratzinger, should tell you something.

I do have hope and am praying for the current leadership as the speach he made after taking the presidency contained a message of getting away from spiritualizing doctrines and back to the foundations and pillars....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Very much so.... we are given the example as Abrahams seed, that just as Isaac, and jacob and later the Israelites were not to mingle with those outside their faith to keep God's people pure and undefiled.

OK. Thanks for the open candor and for helping me better understand your perspective. So, when you mingle with folks like me, do you sense that you're taking a risk of defilement?

Would "outside the faith" include anyone outside of "SDAism," or would it go deeper than that -- perhaps anyone outside of "historic SDAism?" In your view, are there some within the SDA denomination who are "outside the faith?"

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

I've seen a few threads on here where you trolls seem to focus on what is not said but what you want to argue against.

Here it is in it's simplist form....

We are justified through faith in Jesus and through His atoning blood.

We are sanctified by obedience.

If you don't agree with what we believe, then by all means troll elsewhere...

:o Welcome....You must be annointed to teach the truth. Let's hear what you know.
I do take offense to you mentioning my name rather than refuting each post you dont agree with.
The word of God is truth regardless of what you say or think.