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Who's spreading falsehoods?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by Aron-Ra, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. FishFace

    FishFace Senior Veteran

    +165
    Atheist
    My Chemistry teacher showed me this. Awesome.


    Contradiction. If a rock is 80,000 years old, it's not also 6100 years old. Right, since you insisted people answer instead of actually dealing with the problem, I'll do both.

    Assumption 1: the creator can't lie
    Assumption 2: the piece of paper is actually from the creator.
    Assumption 3: the creator exists
    Assumption 4: the piece of paper actually says the earth is 6,100 years old
    Assumption 5: the piece of paper is to be believed over any evidence.
    Flaw: if the creator doesn't actually know when he created the rock, he wouldn't be necessarily lying.
     
  2. Upisoft

    Upisoft CEO of a waterfal

    +111
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  3. MrGoodBytes

    MrGoodBytes Seeker for life, probably

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    So far, so good.

    Here the trouble starts. You do not have a paper written by the creator, you have a compilation of texts written by men claiming to speak for the creator.

    Depends. If the rock really is 80.000 years old, and the creator exists and is unable to lie, it is a direct contradiction.
     
  4. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    You DO realize I'm grading papers, don't you?
     
  5. RealityCheck

    RealityCheck Senior Veteran

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    Wait, now your grading the paper that claims to be written by the rock's creator?

    I'm confused. Where are the scissors?
     
  6. MrGoodBytes

    MrGoodBytes Seeker for life, probably

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    By what criteria?
     
  7. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Paradox resolution.
     
  8. RealityCheck

    RealityCheck Senior Veteran

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    Genuine paradoxes do not have real resolutions. Most things that are posed as a "paradox" are not - they end up being based on a faulty assumption or premise, or they turn out to provide only partial information - there is a key piece of the puzzle purposely not revealed, the revelation of which undoes the paradox.


    Here's a classic for you to try, AV.

    1. All Cretans are liars.
    2. A Cretan says, "I am lying."

    Is the Cretan's statement a lie? Premise 1 says yes, it is a lie. But that means the Cretan is telling the truth, because he is in fact lying.

    How do you resolve that?
     
  9. MrGoodBytes

    MrGoodBytes Seeker for life, probably

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    I'm confused. I thought we were talking about the process you use to discern texts written by God vs. texts written by men.
     
  10. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Wikipedia disagrees:

    He's not a Cretan, as a Cretan would not be able to say "I am lying."

    Let's employ Occam's Razor to resolve this, and assume only one Cretan exists in the universe; and that he's a liar.

    In that case, if he was to say, "I am lying," then, by definition, he either ceases to become a Cretan, or he nullifies the paradox (which, IMO, is not really a paradox - it's a contradiction).
     
  11. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Let's go over it again, then:

    Not a single reference to God --- in fact, I changed it to the XN-6100 MATERIALIZER, did I not?
     
  12. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    so how is this thread going anyway?
     
  13. Aron-Ra

    Aron-Ra Senior Veteran

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    I'm still waiting for you to answer the challenge in the OP.
     
  14. RealityCheck

    RealityCheck Senior Veteran

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    To sum up:

    AV is still defending embedded age, and attempting to present a simplified argument for why it is true.

    The rest of us have been continually pointing out the flaws in both embedded age and in AV's attempt at a simplified argument. AV has refused to acknowledge the flaws, and has insisted that we simply debate on his terms alone.

    So all in all - like a lot of other threads.
     
  15. RichardT

    RichardT Contributor

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    .
     
  16. Aron-Ra

    Aron-Ra Senior Veteran

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    But answer came there none.
    And this was scarcely odd
    because there never was a one.
     
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