Who's spreading falsehoods?

[RealityCheck]

Why is it difficult to believe that God did something He said?

According to His Word He created everything ex nilo, out of nothing. I can understand why non-Christians wouldn't be open to believing that, but for Christians to not even entertain the idea is quite fascinating.

If God were to create something from nothing, like Adam for example, it would be complete when it was made. Adam wasn't a baby that was born but a fully grown man and therefore would appear to be older than he was. The same would hold true for everything else.

Why, as a Christian, do you believe that God could ever deceive us? Are you saying that His Word is wrong and that He was purposely deceiving us to believe He created everything in six days? What would be the purpose in that?

According to your beliefs then He decieved us so that we could find out the truth for ourselves, that everything on this planet, including the rocks, dirt, etc, was formed through some evolutionary process?

No, according to my beliefs, the Bible was not authored by God, but by men.

 

[Edx]

We who are not evolutionst dont understand it and are ignorant

Thats what ignorent means...

liers

Many Creationists are dishonest, and all the professional Creationists have to be.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why, as a Christian, do you believe that God could ever deceive us?

Vossler,

Your post is an excellent one.

When I see people not accepting embedded age because it's "deceiving", I just shake my head in wonderment.

As I have told them before, if God's intention were to deceive us, I guarantee you - we'll be deceived.

But to embed age in Creation as an act of deception, then give us a Book that clearly shows the earth in existence for only 6100 years, would be self-defeating; and I don't think they can see that.

I have, in 26 years of debating Creation, never heard a weaker argument than: "deception".

 

[Edx]

I guess you can't reason a person out of a position they did not reason themselves into, can you?

Very true, thats why no one can reason with Creationsits like you and Nipper.

 

[Edx]

If God embedded age into the world, and gave you an acceptable form of proof, would that render your conclusion false?

And theres the hypothetical, AV.

What if Zeus was real and gave you an acceptable form of proof?

Well, I guess you'd believe Zeus was real in that case, wouldnt you?

Ed

 

[LittleNipper]

Thats what ignorent means...


Many Creationists are dishonest, and all the professional Creationists have to be.

Many Evolutionists are brainwashed, and all the professional evolutionists have to be bias....

 

[DrkSdBls]

As I have told them before, if God's intention were to deceive us, I guarantee you - we'll be deceived.

Then congradulations! He succeeded!

 

[RealityCheck]

Vossler,

Your post is an excellent one.

When I see people not accepting embedded age because it's "deceiving", I just shake my head in wonderment.

As I have told them before, if God's intention were to deceive us, I guarantee you - we'll be deceived.

But to embed age in Creation as an act of deception, then give us a Book that clearly shows the earth in existence for only 6100 years, would be self-defeating; and I don't think they can see that.

I have, in 26 years of debating Creation, never heard a weaker argument than: "deception".

You still have yet to offer

a) Evidence of "embedded age" outside the Bible

b) Evidence of "embedded age" within the Bible

c) A reason why this would even be in the first place.

 

[AV1611VET]

In the same way as God can embed age, God could quite easily be making us see the world as it isn't. God could have planted the Bible with the intent of making everyone wrong.

God's got better things to do than play games.

Try interpreting Genesis literally, then see if you conclude that He created this universe "Last Thursday".

 

[RealityCheck]

God's got better things to do than play games.

But isn't that what the whole "embedding age" idea is? One big game?

 

[Edx]

Many Creationists are dishonest, and all the professional Creationists have to be

Many Evolutionists are brainwashed, and all the professional evolutionists have to be bias....

Difference between what I said and what you said is that yours is just empty words.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes. Now for the proof part, if you don't mind.

I hold a rock in one hand that's 80,000 years old.

I hold a piece of paper in the other, written from the creator of the rock, that says this universe has only been around for 6100 years, and he can't lie.

Question: is this a contradiction, or a paradox?

 

[Edx]

I hold a rock in one hand that's 80,000 years old.

I hold a piece of paper in the other, written from the creator of the rock, that says this universe has only been around for 6100 years, and he can't lie.

Question: is this a contradiction, or a paradox?

lol. And how would you know the guy that wrote the note really created the rock, AV?

Can we do any experiments to empirically verify this? The answer is no.

lol

 

[LittleNipper]

And theres the hypothetical, AV.

What if Zeus was real and gave you an acceptable form of proof?

Well, I guess you'd believe Zeus was real in that case, wouldnt you?

Ed

Zeus is but a god in the image of a super sinful man. My GOD is perfect and expects perfection. The only way HE could achieve this was to take on imperfection and become perfection for us...... This is something Zeus never did, because he was of man's creation. I could not have thought of the GOD I worship, because HE is not like me....

 

[AV1611VET]

You still have yet to offer

a) Evidence of "embedded age" outside the Bible

b) Evidence of "embedded age" within the Bible

c) A reason why this would even be in the first place.

a) Almost any rock will do, I suppose.

b) Adam had to have been an adult.

c) So the universe could be fully-functional and mature enough to keep us alive.

When God launched this universe out from the palm of His hand, with Adam and Eve in it, it had better be running at 100% peak efficiency, don't you think?

 

[vossler]

No, according to my beliefs, the Bible was not authored by God, but by men.

If it was authored by men why even give it a second thought?

 

[AV1611VET]

But isn't that what the whole "embedding age" idea is? One big game?

No --- it's actually based on a reconciliation of Science (notice the capital "S") and Scripture.

Technically, it's called paradox resolution.

 

[LittleNipper]

I hold a rock in one hand that's 80,000 years old.

I hold a piece of paper in the other, written from the creator of the rock, that says this universe has only been around for 6100 years, and he can't lie.

Question: is this a contradiction, or a paradox?

What exactly makes the rock 80,000 years old? Is it the materials it is made of? GOD created a mature man (chicken came first). GOD created a mature ecological system (it worked for the benifit of all living things from day one). GOD is not bound by your expectations (scientific or not). The piece of paper told me so and I choose to believe it, just as you choose not to. It is all about choice----true science has nothing to do with our expectations.... Sin does.

 

[RealityCheck]

I hold a rock in one hand that's 80,000 years old.

I hold a piece of paper in the other, written from the creator of the rock, that says this universe has only been around for 6100 years, and he can't lie.

Question: is this a contradiction, or a paradox?

Neither. You're making the assumption that the piece of paper is trustworthy in its authorship. How do you know that the creator of the rock wrote on that piece of paper?

Wait wait! Don't tell me! The paper says that the creator of the rock wrote it, and therefore it must be true!

I highly advise you watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDp7pkEcJVQ

 

[vossler]

a) Almost any rock will do, I suppose.

b) Adam had to have been an adult.

c) So the universe could be fully-functional and mature enough to keep us alive.

When God launched this universe out from the palm of His hand, with Adam and Eve in it, it had better be running at 100% peak efficiency, don't you think?

Nice post!

Simple and straight to the point; hard to refute too!