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Who Will Harris Pick for VP Running Mate???

SimplyMe

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Not at all...I recall when Clinton never faced charges for exactly the same crime Trump was recently found guilty of.

Oh? What crime is that? It can't be falsifying business documents since Clinton didn't own a business.

I recall Hillary Clinton being investigated far too many times for Benghazi. Benghazi needed investigated...maybe even 2 or 3 times....but I don't recall any new facts emerging after that.

And yet there were seven Congressional investigations, with -- again -- the last ones even Republicans admitting they were merely attempting to hurt Hillary's chances at being elected President.

And this is completely ignoring the Clinton Presidency, that I was really talking about. Republicans did everything they could to find a crime. The allowed the Special Prosecutor, once he couldn't find a crime related to Whitewater, to "go fishing" and start looking at everything the Clintons had ever done.

What has happened to Trump is not much different than what happens to most Presidential candidates, we just have never had a candidate whine about it (and have people like his whining) like Trump.

I recall Hillary found in possession of hundreds of classified documents, at home, on her private server

Then you recall a fantasy. The server wasn't at her home and, from my recollection, never had "hundreds of Classified documents." My recollection is she had been sent documents with maybe a couple of dozen documents that had some small pieces of Classified information but the sender never properly marked the emails. If you have evidence to the contrary, please link it.

...and facing no charges for it.

But not for lack of Trump attempting to get his AGs to press charges. Instead, the AGs knew it was a poor case -- since they'd have to prove that Hillary knew those emails, that were not marked as Classified, were on her servers and that she had motive to have the Classified information there. As was stated by the FBI director (who announcing that Clinton was under investigation just a month before the election, in violation of FBI protocols, likely cost her the election), it wasn't prosecuted because it would be almost impossible to get a conviction; it would have been a waste of time and money.

This is far different from Trump who was actually physically attempting to hide Classified documents from the government, as he didn't want to turn them over to the government as the law requires.

It wasn't politically motivated...everyone who emailed her would have known she had a non-government email address. It was motivated by the fact that details of that server were leaked/hacked...classified info out in the open.

No, we have no evidence her server was ever hacked. And much of the "classified information" that was on her server was things like her daily schedule -- which is often classified to keep other countries from knowing who she is meeting with and when; but hardly worth anything a couple of months after they were sent.

I don't recall any former president facing clearly bogus charges by DAs in NY. I don't recall any president, including the sitting one, facing charges for classified documents, in a coordinted effort with the white house.

I don't recall any former President who was accused of fraudulent business practices -- yet Trump had that before he was ever President with things like Trump University and Trump Charities; just the chargers were against his company and not him personally, even though with the Charities he seemed to be the one who personally benefitted. For some reason Republicans never had an issue with Trump being in charge of multiple organizations where fraud was proven.

I don't recall any president facing local election charges by a prosecutor coordinating with the white house.

Me either. Then again, I never heard of a Presidential Campaign trying to get Electors to fraudulently claim they won the state, much less those Electors being convicted of fraudulently sending in the paperwork alleging that their candidate won their state.

I don't recall any effort to remove a valid presidential candidate from the ballot by left wing groups over a post Civil War election clause.

Yet, for some reason there were Republicans who sought to do it to their own candidate.

Yes, I absolutely recall the Clintons. 100%.

Much of what happened to them was justifiable. None of it resulted in criminal charges after leaving office.

Because there were never charges which prosecutors believed would result in a conviction. In Trump's case, a prosecutor was able to convince a jury, despite Trump's attorneys defending Trump of the charges and being able to remove jurors they didn't want on the panel.

Tell me when it happens. Mark my words...it's going to be Harris.

It is definitely looking like it will be Harris tonight. Then again, the Democratic Party I know has always been really good at shooting themselves in the foot. I just wish either party was worth anything at all, much less a hill of beans.
 
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SimplyMe

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It doesn’t say much for some Democrats that they won’t vote for a black female

I wasn't claiming Democrats, though there are likely a few of those. I was speaking more of the General Election.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Oh? What crime is that? It can't be falsifying business documents since Clinton didn't own a business.


How about we pass a law trying Bill, civilly, for ancient rape accusations?

And yet there were seven Congressional investigations, with -- again

I spoke out against those so you're barking up the wrong tree.



the last ones even Republicans admitting they were merely attempting to hurt Hillary's chances at being elected President.

Let's start with the fact that a "Congressional investigation" isn't a "criminal investigation" and so not remotely comparable.

Secondly, I don't recall Republicans saying anything about the investigations being strictly to hurt Presidential Campaign chances but hey....if you can dig any up I'll read them.



And this is completely ignoring the Clinton Presidency, that I was really talking about. Republicans did everything they could to find a crime.

Well you had allegations of sexual harassment and assault....some of which seem valid.

Meanwhile no evidence of a Trump/Russia collusion was ever found. Nothing to justify a multi year investigation except some lies floated by the Hillary campaign


Which btw...think about that. Hillary funded a fake spy dossier she floated to the FBI using campaign funds (0% of which was hers)....and gets a small fine by the FEC. Trump paid a harlot to keep her mouth shut, with money that was estimated between 40-60% his....and he's treated like a criminal.

What has happened to Trump is not much different than what happens to most Presidential candidates,

It's wildly different.




Then you recall a fantasy. The server wasn't at her home and, from my recollection, never had "hundreds of Classified documents."

Sigh...this is old news and easily found but hey....you brought up the Clintons


  • More than 2,000 of the 30,490 emails Clinton turned over to the State Department contained classified information, including 110 emails in 52 email chains that contained classified information at the time they were sent or received. (Most emails were retroactively deemed to contain classified information by the U.S. agencies from which the information originated.)

Given that there's thousands that weren't turned over or able to be recovered and I'm being rather generous by not really counting all that were retroactively classified...I don't think hundreds is an exaggeration.

Yes, the servers were in her home. She may have called it her office....but it was an office in her home.

Then, last Friday, the FBI released the final batch of what amount to nearly 250 pages of interview notes and reports collected during the course of its investigation. Agents interviewed officials ranging from former Secretary of State Colin Powell to CIA officers to the IT staffer who first rented a minivan to drive the server from Washington to the Clintons’ home in New York. The files also include the FBI’s forensic investigative process and never-before-seen details of the staff decisions that led to the server, the mechanics of Clinton’s email system, and the confusing and balky State Department processes that led a technophobic Clinton to embrace her own BlackBerry. The FBI interviewed both those who supported her and those who questioned her decisions, as well as plenty of disinterested public servants who had no allegiance or beef with her either way. While the interviews were not technically conducted “under oath” — lying to federal agents is itself a crime, as is obstruction of justice — they do open a uniquely candid window into how the decisions around Hillary Clinton’s email server unfolded. They may be as close to the actual truth as we may ever get.






But not for lack of Trump attempting to get his AGs to press charges. Instead, the AGs knew it was a poor case -- since they'd have to prove that Hillary knew those emails, that were not marked as Classified, were on her servers and that she had motive to have the Classified information there. As was stated by the FBI director (who announcing that Clinton was under investigation just a month before the election, in violation of FBI protocols, likely cost her the election), it wasn't prosecuted because it would be almost impossible to get a conviction; it would have been a waste of time and money.

I'll just skip this...because 100 emails isn't small.

We good now? I understand a completely different set of info was published in WaPo...but the reality was she's every bit as guilty as Trump and Biden for taking docs, she unintentionally had those taken from her and Biden openly shared his docs....both worse than the Trump case.

It's not my fantasy...you're just wrong here.



No, we have no evidence her server was ever hacked.

Hacked was the pretense for the Trump investigation but I also think it's possible she had a leaker who was murdered.


I don't recall any former President who was accused of fraudulent business practices

Seriously?


Me either. Then again, I never heard of a Presidential Campaign trying to get Electors to fraudulently claim they won the state, much less those Electors being convicted of fraudulently sending in the paperwork alleging that their candidate won their state.

I think this was probably the strongest case....and somehow it got bungled.

Yet, for some reason there were Republicans who sought to do it to their own candidate.

He's still a black sheep on the right largely to establishment Republicans.


It is definitely looking like it will be Harris tonight.

Donors and lack of time basically ensure it's Harris.
 
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Sword of the Lord

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Harris isn't the nominee. That will be settled in August. I'm sticking with Michelle with RFK. I think the pairing could beat Trump. Plus you get the first female president plus a Kennedy back in the white house. If they want to win that's the strongest duo.

~bella
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Richard T

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I pray someone for someone who is pro-life, experienced, and humble as Kamala's VP pick.
You are right on Alex. If Harris loses the election, the VP pick could be in the driver's seat for 2028. All Christians need to pray for both parties to field candidates that are relatively better picks from a biblical perspective. This is why cabinet selections, Governors and Senate elections need more prayer too FOR BOTH PARTIES. Spiritual forces are at work in elections. God does care.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Ok...I guess "in group" "out group" identities are probably the simplest and easiest possible groupings of identity politics....but still valid.

It's fundamentally a part of politics however, to distinguish yourself apart from the competition in some way.

It’s often (though not always) less about the candidate’s identity than it is about the audience’s.

The rest of my family. I grew up in fundie churches (one of which had their parent org written up recently for being a pedo-defending cult) and then I did a presentation on Rush Limbaugh in jr high, with a poster board and everything.
 
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AlexB23

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You are right on Alex. If Harris loses the election, the VP pick could be in the driver's seat for 2028. All Christians need to pray for both parties to field candidates that are relatively better picks from a biblical perspective. This is why cabinet selections, Governors and Senate elections need more prayer too FOR BOTH PARTIES. Spiritual forces are at work in elections. God does care.
I pray for peace and Christian values a lot. We need to pray for our leaders of both right, left and centrists, and pray for humility. Spiritual forces are always at work, even in between elections, but really ramp up during elections, it seems.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Democratic lawyers are beginning their work conducting a deep, yet truncated, vetting process for potential vice presidential hopefuls, two people familiar with the matter told CNN, with siloed teams being established for the leading prospective candidates.

[NC Gov Roy] Cooper, [PA Gov Josh] Shapiro, [seemingly Gov Andy Beshear of KY], and Arizona Sen. Mark Kelly are among the Democrats who have been asked to submit information about their finances, family histories and other personal details, two people familiar with the process said. They are part of a group that includes about 10 names, nearly all of whom are elected officials.

[Gov Whitmer of MI has said she's not leaving Michigan.]
 
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Ana the Ist

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The rest of my family. I grew up in fundie churches (one of which had their parent org written up recently for being a pedo-defending cult) and then I did a presentation on Rush Limbaugh in jr high, with a poster board and everything.

You lived with your family for 40 years?
 
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BCP1928

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Democratic lawyers are beginning their work conducting a deep, yet truncated, vetting process for potential vice presidential hopefuls, two people familiar with the matter told CNN, with siloed teams being established for the leading prospective candidates.

[NC Gov Roy] Cooper, [PA Gov Josh] Shapiro, [seemingly Gov Andy Beshear of KY], and Arizona Sen. Mark Kelly are among the Democrats who have been asked to submit information about their finances, family histories and other personal details, two people familiar with the process said. They are part of a group that includes about 10 names, nearly all of whom are elected officials.

[Gov Whitmer of MI has said she's not leaving Michigan.]
Cooper would be an excellent choice. He is the popular Democratic governor of a red southern state coming to the end of his second term. Prior to that he was elected to the state Senate and then served as Attorney General. He knows better than Harris how to work a red state.
 
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SimplyMe

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Why would we need to pass a law? Though, and maybe I remember incorrectly, I don't recall any allegations of rape made against Bill Clinton. There were lots of lawsuits about sex but the allegations I recall were after consensual sex had occurred, just that there were other details where the person felt harassed or intimidated -- and my recollection is that they were settled.

And just for the record, I never voted for Bill Clinton, I voted for Bush the first time and Dole in '96 -- so it isn't like I have ever been any type of Clinton supporter.

I spoke out against those so you're barking up the wrong tree.





Let's start with the fact that a "Congressional investigation" isn't a "criminal investigation" and so not remotely comparable.

Secondly, I don't recall Republicans saying anything about the investigations being strictly to hurt Presidential Campaign chances but hey....if you can dig any up I'll read them.

How about a direct quote from Keven McCarthy: "Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today?"


Well you had allegations of sexual harassment and assault....some of which seem valid.

Yes, and again, suits were filed and my recollection is most were settled. Those victims had their days in court and seemed happy with the verdicts. I won't argue that Bill Clinton had sex issues -- much as Donald Trump appears to have had.

Meanwhile no evidence of a Trump/Russia collusion was ever found.

Though Trump went to great pains to point out that he was never a subject of those investigations. And it is false to claim that "no evidence" was found -- there are plenty of examples in the Mueller Report, there were a number of convictions, but again, none were tied to Donald Trump because he wasn't being investigated (as the Mueller Report explains). To give a couple of examples, Manafort passing confidential campaign polling data (confidential to the campaign, not the US) to the Russians, the meeting with "Russians agents" at Trump Tower, etc. In fact, what makes it even more interesting is that Mueller explains that these were crimes but he chose not to prosecute -- and the reason was similar to why Hillary was not prosecuted, because he couldn't prove they knew what the did was illegal, meaning he couldn't prove motive, so declined to prosecute because of the issues he'd have getting a conviction. Funny how that works, isn't it -- people in Trump's administration getting off on the same legal technicality that kept Hillary from being prosecuted.

Nothing to justify a multi year investigation except some lies floated by the Hillary campaign


Which btw...think about that. Hillary funded a fake spy dossier she floated to the FBI using campaign funds (0% of which was hers)....and gets a small fine by the FEC. Trump paid a harlot to keep her mouth shut, with money that was estimated between 40-60% his....and he's treated like a criminal.

Nope, false. Hillary's campaign tasked a law firm, one doing work for the campaign, to investigate Trump as part of "opposition research." The law firm, rather than run the investigation themselves, hired a firm that does opposition research. That firm hired Christopher Steele -- a former British agent with connections inside Russia, to run that part of the investigation. Steele produced a report and, worried by what he had learned, gave a copy of his final report to friends of his at the FBI. Hillary, nor her campaign, had any ties to Steele, nor did they ever "hire" Steele -- he was hired as a contractor to the company contracted by the law firm.

Further, despite the fever dreams of Special Prosecutor Durham, he had zero evidence the Clinton campaign ever sent the dossier to the FBI. The closest he came, but he lost the criminal prosecution, was claiming that a lawyer that worked for the same law firm as was hired by the Clinton campaign (but apparently one not working with the Clinton campaign) talked to a FBI agent at a cocktail party about the dossier.

The Clinton campaign, not Hillary personally, was cited by the FEC because they didn't note they didn't log the payment to the law firm as going toward the opposition research paid to Fusion GPS (not to Christopher Steele, though presumably Fusion GPS did pay him something for his work).

Two major differences, the Clinton campaign was not trying to hide that they did opposition research; it is known that every campaign (at least that is done with any level of experience or professionalism) will do opposition research -- there is nothing illegal about it. Nor is it illegal even if they had turned the research over to the FBI, if they believe there was a crime committed that they believed needed to be examined. That much of it turned out to be false is not important as the Clinton campaign had no reason to believe it was false -- even the author believed the information to be valid (he was taken in by a person acting as a Russian agent). But, please, tell me what crime the Clinton campaign were trying to conceal?

Next, there is no evidence Hillary had any knowledge of how the payment was reported. There are a reasons there are thousands, including an entire team of accountants and people over them, by most Presidential campaigns. But I'd love to hear your evidence that Hillary had anything to do with how the payment was reported.

It's wildly different.






Sigh...this is old news and easily found but hey....you brought up the Clintons


  • More than 2,000 of the 30,490 emails Clinton turned over to the State Department contained classified information, including 110 emails in 52 email chains that contained classified information at the time they were sent or received. (Most emails were retroactively deemed to contain classified information by the U.S. agencies from which the information originated.)

Given that there's thousands that weren't turned over or able to be recovered and I'm being rather generous by not really counting all that were retroactively classified...I don't think hundreds is an exaggeration.

Yes, the servers were in her home. She may have called it her office....but it was an office in her home.

Actually, not really. It does appear the servers were in the Clinton's New York home, for a time, before being moved to a New Jersey data server. It is the New Jersey data server location that I recall them being. Though Hillary was not living in New York during that time, but in Washington. It is also worth noting that Secretaries of State typically can have classified information at their homes, I believe they typically have a room classified as a SCIF, because of their need to sometimes deal with various issues at home. Benghazi would be a good example -- it started overnight, Washington time, and the embassy would have called her about the attacks. For these types of reasons, they need to be able to have secure calls and computers in their homes to handle those types of situations. While the New York home might not typically have a second secure area; because it is protected by the Secret Service and was already largely secure, they likely added a SCIF there, as well, while Clinton was Secretary of State. So, no, there would be no violation for her having Classified information in her home.

And, as the article points out, there were 110 emails that were determined to have Classified information at the time they were received BUT the issue is that they weren't marked as having Classified information. In the Fact Check article you linked, "Comey told Congress that three emails sent and received by Clinton had “portion markings” — a letter “C” in the body of the emails — indicating the presence of classified information." Making it even less of an issue, "The State Department said it believes that at least two of the emails were marked in error."

And, again, we aren't talking about Classified documents, we're talking about emails that might have a sentence or two that was Classified -- and which didn't include the markings that they were Classified (except, apparently, once).

Then, last Friday, the FBI released the final batch of what amount to nearly 250 pages of interview notes and reports collected during the course of its investigation. Agents interviewed officials ranging from former Secretary of State Colin Powell to CIA officers to the IT staffer who first rented a minivan to drive the server from Washington to the Clintons’ home in New York.

It's interesting that it brings up Colin Powell, who as Secretary of State used a personal email server and apparently was also sent Classified Information. Condelezza Rice, I believe used a private email account (but not her own server) that was also sent Classified information. So it is worth pointing out neither of them were charged, either, despite being just as "guilty" as Sec. Clinton.

And, while we are at it, why hasn't there ever been an investigation of Ivanka and Jared, who both used Gmail accounts for government business while working at the White House -- and since there has been no investigation we don't know if they received Classified information or not (but given the President's schedule can be classified -- particularly on foreign trips which they sometimes went on -- there is a high probability there was Confidential emails sent unsecured through Google's servers.

The files also include the FBI’s forensic investigative process and never-before-seen details of the staff decisions that led to the server, the mechanics of Clinton’s email system, and the confusing and balky State Department processes that led a technophobic Clinton to embrace her own BlackBerry. The FBI interviewed both those who supported her and those who questioned her decisions, as well as plenty of disinterested public servants who had no allegiance or beef with her either way. While the interviews were not technically conducted “under oath” — lying to federal agents is itself a crime, as is obstruction of justice — they do open a uniquely candid window into how the decisions around Hillary Clinton’s email server unfolded. They may be as close to the actual truth as we may ever get.

I'll fully agree that Clinton was careless, I've never been a fan of hers. But my issue is with how the government doesn't hold high government officials to the same standards as military member or rank and file members of the CIA. If I'd done anything close to what any of these former Presidents or Cabinet Officers had done, I'd have gone to jail (likely Ft. Leavenworth). The issue is that it is laws and Classified document regulations that need to change, not prosecuting every senior official that does something wrong.

Oh, and the Blackberry thing is a red herring. From all the evidence I've seen, she would use a Blackberry until she started having problems with it and then request a new one. Once she got a new one, the information was moved over and, since the data on the Blackberry was considered sensitive (and I believe it was authorized for Confidential Information, such as what she could get through her State Department official email) the device was destroyed once the information was transferred (in accordance with Classified document regulations). It wasn't like she had eight different Blackberrys and one day, because she was afraid they might be subpoenaed, she destroyed them all.

I'll just skip this...because 100 emails isn't small.

We good now? I understand a completely different set of info was published in WaPo...but the reality was she's every bit as guilty as Trump and Biden for taking docs, she unintentionally had those taken from her and Biden openly shared his docs....both worse than the Trump case.

It's not my fantasy...you're just wrong here.

Except she didn't take docs. Again, she was legally allowed to have the documents -- the issue is that they were put on a public email server that was run by the Secretary of State (which she shouldn't have done but neither should Colin Powell). When she left her job as Secretary of State, all the remaining emails were turned over to the State Department -- she did not retain a copy of the emails (which is why the FBI had so many issues getting them. You mention the server being removed from her "home" in New York -- from what I've read they got the servers with no hard drives, as those were either at the State department or destroyed in accordance with government regulations and laws.

Hacked was the pretense for the Trump investigation but I also think it's possible she had a leaker who was murdered.

That's nice. I think it is much more likely (and you should even agree) that Republicans invented the leak story to hurt Clinton in the election.

Seriously?

I might be forgetting one. I suppose you could claim Biden but there has been zero evidence to support any of the claims made by Republicans, which is why the House Impeachment committee has been so silent at a time when they'd typically have been trying to destroy Biden, from this summer through November. Of course, it is all moot now.

I think this was probably the strongest case....and somehow it got bungled.



He's still a black sheep on the right largely to establishment Republicans.




Donors and lack of time basically ensure it's Harris.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Why would we need to pass a law?

Why indeed.



Though, and maybe I remember incorrectly, I don't recall any allegations of rape made against Bill Clinton.

You remember incorrectly.


And just for the record, I never voted for Bill Clinton

You brought up the Clintons....not me.


How about a direct quote from Keven McCarthy: "Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today?"

Context?

I clicked your link and it's clear he's giving an example of something. Not sure what.


Yes, and again, suits were filed

Some were.

Though Trump went to great pains to point out that he was never a subject of those investigations. And it is false to claim that "no evidence" was found -- there are plenty of examples in the Mueller Report,

Let's hear the evidence.



there were a number of convictions,

Mostly trivial charges of not cooperating with what turned out to be a bogus investigation. Unlike you, it seems I looked at the charges.



but again, none were tied to Donald Trump because he wasn't being investigated (as the Mueller Report explains).

Right.




Easily the worst bit of evidence...polling data. The Russians would have needed to read the NYT a week later to obtain that.


(confidential to the campaign, not the US) to the Russians, the meeting with "Russians agents" at Trump Tower, etc.

Which turned up nothing....despite FISA warrants bugging every phone in the building. Weird.


and the reason was similar to why Hillary was not prosecuted,

If you like...as someone who works for the federal government, I can easily call nonsense on this. Do you think that anything less than years in prison would happen to me if I did the same? Do you have any idea what happens to people who take classified information home or worse, like Biden, shares it with people they shouldn't.

Don't you remember an airman IT person who shared classified information on discord? Do you know how many years he got? He wasn't some elder statesman....he was a young guy probably on his first real job.

Get a grip. Read the room. Comey thought Hillary would win...same as everyone else, including Trump. You don't charge your new boss with a federal crime if you want to keep your job.



Nope, false. Hillary's campaign tasked a law firm, one doing work for the campaign, to investigate Trump as part of "opposition research."

Uh huh.

The law firm, rather than run the investigation themselves, hired a firm that does opposition research.

Yup.

That firm hired Christopher Steele -- a former British agent with connections inside Russia, to run that part of the investigation.

Interesting...so we're talking about Hillary's campaign money.


Steele produced a report and, worried by what he had learned, gave a copy of his final report to friends of his at the FBI. Hillary, nor her campaign, had any ties to Steele, nor did they ever "hire" Steele -- he was hired as a contractor to the company contracted by the law firm.

If you think the contractor was using their own money....you're wrong.
If you think the law firm was using their own money, you're wrong.
The contractor didn't turn the bogus info over to the FBI, Hillary's lead lawyer on her campaign did. That's why she got that little fine.

Let's not forget, the law firm didn't believe the dossier, the FBI didn't believe the dossier, yet that didn't stop the FBI from using to continue the investigation long after it was dead.



Further, despite the fever dreams of Special Prosecutor Durham, he had zero evidence the Clinton campaign ever sent the dossier to the FBI.

"The trial focused on a narrow issue: whether Sussmann, a cybersecurity attorney and former federal prosecutor himself, concealed from the FBI that he was representing Clinton’s campaign when he passed along computer data that he said showed a possible secret communication backchannel between Russia-based Alfa Bank and Trump’s business company, the Trump Organization."

I hate to keep telling you that you're wrong but you're 100% wrong. There's 0 question Hillary's lawyer gave the dossier to the FBI. Both her lawyer and the FBI agree on that. The only thing that is supposedly in question lol is whether he undertook this endeavor as part of her campaign or just because he's a really swell guy lol.

Be serious, please.


The Clinton campaign, not Hillary personally,

A remarkable distinction. It's not her...it's her campaign. It's not her campaign, it's her campaign's lawyer. It's not her law firm, it's the contractor they hired.

Look up "plausible deniability" then get back to me.



Actually, not really. It does appear the servers were in the Clinton's New York home, for a time, before being moved to a New Jersey data server.

Glad we agree.


It is also worth noting that Secretaries of State typically can have classified information at their homes, I believe they typically have a room classified as a SCIF, because of their need to sometimes deal with various issues at home.

Where in the world are you hearing this from?

Why do you think everyone else is using government servers?


And, as the article points out, there were 110 emails that were determined to have Classified information at the time they were received BUT the issue is that they weren't marked as having Classified information.




In the Fact Check article you

  • More than 2,000 of the 30,490 emails Clinton turned over to the State Department contained classified information, including 110 emails in 52 email chains that contained classified information at the time they were sent or received. (Most emails were retroactively deemed to contain classified information by the U.S. agencies from which the information originated.)
What this paragraph explains....and what you missed....is that 110 emails were marked classified when sent to Clintons server....it's the other 1900 emails that were retroactively classified.

You know how we know they were classied when they were sent or received and not "retroactively classified"? Because they were marked classified.

As I said, I'm being generous by not counting the other nearly 2000.



And, again, we aren't talking about Classified documents,

In legal terms an email is a document. I'm sorry...it just is.

That's why whenever I get a questionable order from my superiors I make sure to get it in writing. Emails will work...I can print it right out.


It's interesting that it brings up Colin Powell, who as Secretary of State used a personal email server and apparently was also sent Classified Information. Condelezza Rice, I believe used a private email account (but not her own server) that was also sent Classified information.

And if you want to dig up my first post regarding the raid on Mar-a-lago you'll notice I said "so what? They all do it."



And, while we are at it, why hasn't there ever been an investigation of Ivanka and Jared

Seems the FBI was rather busy.


Except she didn't take docs.

She did...100%...and there's really no question about it.



Again, she was legally allowed to have the documents -- the issue is that they were put on a public email server

At home, which is illegal. Both the public email address for classified information and the fact it went to her home are both illegal.


That's nice. I think it is much more likely (and you should even agree) that Republicans invented the leak story to hurt Clinton in the election.

I'm curious about how that works.

A DNC staffer takes two to the back of the head, and it's quietly ruled a "robbery gone wrong" although he wasn't robbed...but certainly not the first robbery gone wrong near the Clintons.

Then how does this work? Do Republicans pay Julian Assange for his statement offering a reward to anyone with info on the guy's death?

Do they pay a lawyer to keep after this for years until finally getting a court order for the FBI to turn over this staffer's laptop (which they mysteriously kept this whole time, for no apparent reason, over a "botched robbery") and the FBI have essentially refused the order....claiming they'll provide the data but it will take 40 years lol.

Those are the facts regarding the possible leak...I'm curious how the Republicans orchestrated it.



I might be forgetting one. I suppose you could claim Biden but there has been zero evidence

Well we'd need an actual investigation instead of just whistleblowers going to Congress...but hey, maybe you know what the many Biden businesses actually do? What products do they sell? What services do they provide?
 
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Valletta

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Why would we need to pass a law? Though, and maybe I remember incorrectly, I don't recall any allegations of rape made against Bill Clinton. There were lots of lawsuits about sex but the allegations I recall were after consensual sex had occurred, just that there were other details where the person felt harassed or intimidated -- and my recollection is that they were settled.
A friend of mine was supposed to meet with Bill Clinton, but ended up only meeting with Anthony Lake, his national security advisor at the White House. Apparently Clinton was to busy to see her. I remember Clinton had the time that very month to meet with Kathleen Willey. you can look up the basics of her sexual encounter with Clinton on Wikipedia, which leans left.
 
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BPPLEE

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Why would we need to pass a law? Though, and maybe I remember incorrectly, I don't recall any allegations of rape made against Bill Clinton. There were lots of lawsuits about sex but the allegations I recall were after consensual sex had occurred, just that there were other details where the person felt harassed or intimidated -- and my recollection is that they were settled.

And just for the record, I never voted for Bill Clinton, I voted for Bush the first time and Dole in '96 -- so it isn't like I have ever been any type of Clinton supporter.



How about a direct quote from Keven McCarthy: "Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today?"




Yes, and again, suits were filed and my recollection is most were settled. Those victims had their days in court and seemed happy with the verdicts. I won't argue that Bill Clinton had sex issues -- much as Donald Trump appears to have had.



Though Trump went to great pains to point out that he was never a subject of those investigations. And it is false to claim that "no evidence" was found -- there are plenty of examples in the Mueller Report, there were a number of convictions, but again, none were tied to Donald Trump because he wasn't being investigated (as the Mueller Report explains). To give a couple of examples, Manafort passing confidential campaign polling data (confidential to the campaign, not the US) to the Russians, the meeting with "Russians agents" at Trump Tower, etc. In fact, what makes it even more interesting is that Mueller explains that these were crimes but he chose not to prosecute -- and the reason was similar to why Hillary was not prosecuted, because he couldn't prove they knew what the did was illegal, meaning he couldn't prove motive, so declined to prosecute because of the issues he'd have getting a conviction. Funny how that works, isn't it -- people in Trump's administration getting off on the same legal technicality that kept Hillary from being prosecuted.



Nope, false. Hillary's campaign tasked a law firm, one doing work for the campaign, to investigate Trump as part of "opposition research." The law firm, rather than run the investigation themselves, hired a firm that does opposition research. That firm hired Christopher Steele -- a former British agent with connections inside Russia, to run that part of the investigation. Steele produced a report and, worried by what he had learned, gave a copy of his final report to friends of his at the FBI. Hillary, nor her campaign, had any ties to Steele, nor did they ever "hire" Steele -- he was hired as a contractor to the company contracted by the law firm.

Further, despite the fever dreams of Special Prosecutor Durham, he had zero evidence the Clinton campaign ever sent the dossier to the FBI. The closest he came, but he lost the criminal prosecution, was claiming that a lawyer that worked for the same law firm as was hired by the Clinton campaign (but apparently one not working with the Clinton campaign) talked to a FBI agent at a cocktail party about the dossier.

The Clinton campaign, not Hillary personally, was cited by the FEC because they didn't note they didn't log the payment to the law firm as going toward the opposition research paid to Fusion GPS (not to Christopher Steele, though presumably Fusion GPS did pay him something for his work).

Two major differences, the Clinton campaign was not trying to hide that they did opposition research; it is known that every campaign (at least that is done with any level of experience or professionalism) will do opposition research -- there is nothing illegal about it. Nor is it illegal even if they had turned the research over to the FBI, if they believe there was a crime committed that they believed needed to be examined. That much of it turned out to be false is not important as the Clinton campaign had no reason to believe it was false -- even the author believed the information to be valid (he was taken in by a person acting as a Russian agent). But, please, tell me what crime the Clinton campaign were trying to conceal?

Next, there is no evidence Hillary had any knowledge of how the payment was reported. There are a reasons there are thousands, including an entire team of accountants and people over them, by most Presidential campaigns. But I'd love to hear your evidence that Hillary had anything to do with how the payment was reported.



Actually, not really. It does appear the servers were in the Clinton's New York home, for a time, before being moved to a New Jersey data server. It is the New Jersey data server location that I recall them being. Though Hillary was not living in New York during that time, but in Washington. It is also worth noting that Secretaries of State typically can have classified information at their homes, I believe they typically have a room classified as a SCIF, because of their need to sometimes deal with various issues at home. Benghazi would be a good example -- it started overnight, Washington time, and the embassy would have called her about the attacks. For these types of reasons, they need to be able to have secure calls and computers in their homes to handle those types of situations. While the New York home might not typically have a second secure area; because it is protected by the Secret Service and was already largely secure, they likely added a SCIF there, as well, while Clinton was Secretary of State. So, no, there would be no violation for her having Classified information in her home.

And, as the article points out, there were 110 emails that were determined to have Classified information at the time they were received BUT the issue is that they weren't marked as having Classified information. In the Fact Check article you linked, "Comey told Congress that three emails sent and received by Clinton had “portion markings” — a letter “C” in the body of the emails — indicating the presence of classified information." Making it even less of an issue, "The State Department said it believes that at least two of the emails were marked in error."

And, again, we aren't talking about Classified documents, we're talking about emails that might have a sentence or two that was Classified -- and which didn't include the markings that they were Classified (except, apparently, once).



It's interesting that it brings up Colin Powell, who as Secretary of State used a personal email server and apparently was also sent Classified Information. Condelezza Rice, I believe used a private email account (but not her own server) that was also sent Classified information. So it is worth pointing out neither of them were charged, either, despite being just as "guilty" as Sec. Clinton.

And, while we are at it, why hasn't there ever been an investigation of Ivanka and Jared, who both used Gmail accounts for government business while working at the White House -- and since there has been no investigation we don't know if they received Classified information or not (but given the President's schedule can be classified -- particularly on foreign trips which they sometimes went on -- there is a high probability there was Confidential emails sent unsecured through Google's servers.



I'll fully agree that Clinton was careless, I've never been a fan of hers. But my issue is with how the government doesn't hold high government officials to the same standards as military member or rank and file members of the CIA. If I'd done anything close to what any of these former Presidents or Cabinet Officers had done, I'd have gone to jail (likely Ft. Leavenworth). The issue is that it is laws and Classified document regulations that need to change, not prosecuting every senior official that does something wrong.

Oh, and the Blackberry thing is a red herring. From all the evidence I've seen, she would use a Blackberry until she started having problems with it and then request a new one. Once she got a new one, the information was moved over and, since the data on the Blackberry was considered sensitive (and I believe it was authorized for Confidential Information, such as what she could get through her State Department official email) the device was destroyed once the information was transferred (in accordance with Classified document regulations). It wasn't like she had eight different Blackberrys and one day, because she was afraid they might be subpoenaed, she destroyed them all.



Except she didn't take docs. Again, she was legally allowed to have the documents -- the issue is that they were put on a public email server that was run by the Secretary of State (which she shouldn't have done but neither should Colin Powell). When she left her job as Secretary of State, all the remaining emails were turned over to the State Department -- she did not retain a copy of the emails (which is why the FBI had so many issues getting them. You mention the server being removed from her "home" in New York -- from what I've read they got the servers with no hard drives, as those were either at the State department or destroyed in accordance with government regulations and laws.



That's nice. I think it is much more likely (and you should even agree) that Republicans invented the leak story to hurt Clinton in the election.



I might be forgetting one. I suppose you could claim Biden but there has been zero evidence to support any of the claims made by Republicans, which is why the House Impeachment committee has been so silent at a time when they'd typically have been trying to destroy Biden, from this summer through November. Of course, it is all moot now.
Yes there were allegations of rape.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Yes there were allegations of rape.

In 2024 after learning that Bill was on the Lolita express at least 20+ times, has had multiple sexual assault and rape allegations....the idea that he isn't at least a rapist is pretty wild.
 
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Why indeed.





You remember incorrectly.

Great, so Clinton and Trump have things in common. Yet another reason I won't vote for either.

You brought up the Clintons....not me.

Because of your claim that Trump has been so mistreated because of all the investigations -- but I think we can largely conclude that he isn't unique, the Clintons were just as investigated -- though over a much longer period of time (decades). Maybe we should just conclude that when there is "smoke" (politicians get this much attention for breaking the law) then there is likely fire and they deserve the investigations?

Context?

I clicked your link and it's clear he's giving an example of something. Not sure what.

It is quite clear what he is saying. Or are you going to defend McCarthy, stating that McCarthy actually believed they'd get new information out of the seventh Benghazi hearing done in September and October of 2016, while the Presidential candidates were campaigning, but, since they didn't get new information, at least they "got lucky" and hurt Hillary's election chances? Tell me what legitimate reasons Republicans had for running that Benghazi hearing, in the midst of a Presidential election?

Some were.



Let's hear the evidence.

Here you go.

Mostly trivial charges of not cooperating with what turned out to be a bogus investigation. Unlike you, it seems I looked at the charges.

Again, because most of the violations of the law had the same issue as Hillary's, they couldn't prove motive.

Right.





Easily the worst bit of evidence...polling data. The Russians would have needed to read the NYT a week later to obtain that.

Then why are campaigns so careful not to release their private polling data -- other than when they leak the big lead their candidate has? And actually, no, much of the campaign polling data are state level polling, so they know how they are doing in states important to their campaigns; typically there are few quality state level polls reported. There is a reason campaigns spend so much money on polling.

Which turned up nothing....despite FISA warrants bugging every phone in the building. Weird.

No, that did not happen. The one thing that may have happened was the warrants for Manafort, unrelated to Crossfire Hurricane -- though it does not appear he was wiretapped during the period he was working for the Trump campaign. The closest is that he owned a condominium in Trump Tower and that may have been bugged at a time Manafort was not working on the Trump campaign (but while Trump's campaign was active). Per the Durham investigation, there were no wiretaps of the campaign. While there were FBI investigations into Flynn, Manafort, Page, and Papadopolous, none were wiretapped while working on the campaign.

If you like...as someone who works for the federal government, I can easily call nonsense on this. Do you think that anything less than years in prison would happen to me if I did the same? Do you have any idea what happens to people who take classified information home or worse, like Biden, shares it with people they shouldn't.

Don't you remember an airman IT person who shared classified information on discord? Do you know how many years he got? He wasn't some elder statesman....he was a young guy probably on his first real job.

Get a grip. Read the room. Comey thought Hillary would win...same as everyone else, including Trump. You don't charge your new boss with a federal crime if you want to keep your job.

Which doesn't explain why she wasn't charged when she lost. If Comey was trying to protect himself, he never would have held a press conference from "Pres. Clinton" -- one that explicitly went against FBI policy -- to announce the he'd reopened the investigation in the month before the election. That press conference by Comey hurt Hillary in the polls -- you don't think she would have held a grudge if elected?

If anything, Comey just could have delayed a week or two, until after the election, and if she lost he could bring chargers (and she'd no longer be a Presidential candidate) nor would there by any appearance of Trump wanting to prosecute for political reasons. Your "reasons" don't make any logical sense. What's more, with the prosecution he'd have ended any "power" Hillary would have had to get back at him for the announcement that he'd restarted the investigation.

It also doesn't explain why high ranking officials are never prosecuted. Why hasn't Pence been prosecuted -- you aren't going to try to claim that Democrats like him, are you? Why wasn't Colin Powell prosecuted for the same crime as what Hillary did?

You also had to not read my post to know I said basically the same thing. So at least we can agree that they let the political "elite" get away with things that would land most of us in prison.

Uh huh.



Yup.



Interesting...so we're talking about Hillary's campaign money.


If you think the contractor was using their own money....you're wrong.
If you think the law firm was using their own money, you're wrong.
The contractor didn't turn the bogus info over to the FBI, Hillary's lead lawyer on her campaign did. That's why she got that little fine.

Let's not forget, the law firm didn't believe the dossier, the FBI didn't believe the dossier, yet that didn't stop the FBI from using to continue the investigation long after it was dead.

There are some very bad points of reasoning here. Again, there was clear evidence that members of the Trump campaign worked with the Russians -- the question was if laws had been broken. These investigations lasted through the Mueller investigation, it wasn't merely the Steele Report keeping the investigation alive.

This would be about like the Biden administration arguing that no one believed Hunter's laptop had any real information of wrongdoing by Joe Biden (which it doesn't), yet Republicans used it to keep investigations going into Joe Biden for four years. Seriously, the closest anything on the laptop comes to talking about Joe is the claims by a person, one working for the Trump campaign that also had worked for Hunter, claimed that a single email reference to "the Big Guy" was Joe Biden. Of course, the next issue is that even if Biden was the "Big Guy" (which the author of the email states Joe wasn't), the deal was to take place after Biden had left the White House and the deal failed to occur with no money made.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not claiming that Joe should not have been investigated, just that your usage of the Steele Report is little different than "Hunter's laptop." Neither proved wrongdoing by people in either administration, neither was worth an investigation, but there were other reasons, in both cases, to investigate.


"The trial focused on a narrow issue: whether Sussmann, a cybersecurity attorney and former federal prosecutor himself, concealed from the FBI that he was representing Clinton’s campaign when he passed along computer data that he said showed a possible secret communication backchannel between Russia-based Alfa Bank and Trump’s business company, the Trump Organization."

I hate to keep telling you that you're wrong but you're 100% wrong. There's 0 question Hillary's lawyer gave the dossier to the FBI. Both her lawyer and the FBI agree on that. The only thing that is supposedly in question lol is whether he undertook this endeavor as part of her campaign or just because he's a really swell guy lol.

Be serious, please.

At a cocktail party, a lawyer who worked for the firm that was retained by the Clinton campaign mentioned the Steele Report, and gave that information, to someone he knew that worked at the FBI. The rest remains conjecture with no evidence to suggest any wrongdoing. Whereas the Trump Tower meeting between the top executives of the Trump campaign (other than Trump himself) and a "Russian agent" (per the email used to set up the meeting) was clearly illegal, yet never even prosecuted.

A remarkable distinction. It's not her...it's her campaign. It's not her campaign, it's her campaign's lawyer. It's not her law firm, it's the contractor they hired.

Look up "plausible deniability" then get back to me.

I don't need to. My issue is the fact that there is all this "plausible deniability" with Trump, yet Trump supporters claim he is innocent and it is a "witchhunt" -- but then turn around and claim that roughly the same facts with Clinton or Biden prove they have to be dirty.

Glad we agree.




Where in the world are you hearing this from?

Why do you think everyone else is using government servers?

They use government severs because, after Powell and Clinton, the government (aside from Trump and his family) rigidly enforces use of government servers. But that has nothing to do with high level government officials often being able to access Classified documents at home -- as you point out, there is no reason for them to have paper copies to view them at home (they merely need to be in a secure area). Again, as for the Secretary of State, there are crisis that can happen in other parts of the world that may require immediate responses -- so they have a space in the home of the Secretary for them to be able to deal with that crisis, which ofter requires secure communications and access to Classified information.
  • More than 2,000 of the 30,490 emails Clinton turned over to the State Department contained classified information, including 110 emails in 52 email chains that contained classified information at the time they were sent or received. (Most emails were retroactively deemed to contain classified information by the U.S. agencies from which the information originated.)
What this paragraph explains....and what you missed....is that 110 emails were marked classified when sent to Clintons server....it's the other 1900 emails that were retroactively classified.

You know how we know they were classied when they were sent or received and not "retroactively classified"? Because they were marked classified.

As I said, I'm being generous by not counting the other nearly 2000.

Nope, that doesn't say what you try to make it claim. They know, if you read about it, that there was Classified information because they had the emails analyzed for Classified information. How do you they think they determined there was Classified information in various emails, where the information was not Classified when the email was sent -- obviously since the information was not Classified at the time, there were no markings. You are reading things in that aren't there.

And, beyond that, there is the quote by Comey, when testifying before Congress, that only three of the emails had Classified markings.

In legal terms an email is a document. I'm sorry...it just is.

That is a bit of a twist of what I was saying, it seems to be trying to win a debating point rather than going with the intention of what was said.

But, yes, here are primary documents that are Classified, which is typically the source of some amount of Classified information -- and, as a general rule, when we talk about Trump or Biden having taken "Classified documents" we are generally talking about them taking a primary document -- often a copy but in some cases the original. Then there are secondary documents (and forgive me if I misremember the exact terms) which typically either make mention of a primary document (and often just the existence of a primary document is classified) or some piece of classified information from a primary document. And this is largely what we are talking about with Sec. Clinton. The difference is typically the amount and detail of Classified information -- where a primary document will typically be completely full of Classified information, a secondary document typically may simply have one small notation from the primary document.

That's why whenever I get a questionable order from my superiors I make sure to get it in writing. Emails will work...I can print it right out.




And if you want to dig up my first post regarding the raid on Mar-a-lago you'll notice I said "so what? They all do it."





Seems the FBI was rather busy.




She did...100%...and there's really no question about it.




At home, which is illegal. Both the public email address for classified information and the fact it went to her home are both illegal.




I'm curious about how that works.

A DNC staffer takes two to the back of the head, and it's quietly ruled a "robbery gone wrong" although he wasn't robbed...but certainly not the first robbery gone wrong near the Clintons.

Then how does this work? Do Republicans pay Julian Assange for his statement offering a reward to anyone with info on the guy's death?

Do they pay a lawyer to keep after this for years until finally getting a court order for the FBI to turn over this staffer's laptop (which they mysteriously kept this whole time, for no apparent reason, over a "botched robbery") and the FBI have essentially refused the order....claiming they'll provide the data but it will take 40 years lol.

Those are the facts regarding the possible leak...I'm curious how the Republicans orchestrated it.

It's amazing to me just how much power the Clintons allegedly have. Apparently it is so great that even during the Trump administration -- with the AG and an FBI head both appointed by Pres. Trump, they can't get access to a laptop completely controlled by the FBI? Just how incompetent was Trump as President, not to mention the various people he appointed?

It is further worth pointing out that the hack at the DNC (which is what you are referring to here) had nothing to do with Clinton and her email server. As such, I'm not sure what Republicans would have to do with it (though we did have Trump asking Russia, since they hacked the DNC, to hack Clinton's emails).

No, the idea that Clinton's email server was hacked, which was investigated and no evidence of it occurring was found, does appear to be something created by Republicans during the campaign and frequently alleged.

Well we'd need an actual investigation instead of just whistleblowers going to Congress...but hey, maybe you know what the many Biden businesses actually do? What products do they sell? What services do they provide?

Are you claiming Republicans are incompetent and unable to mount any real investigation? I seem to recall them calling witnesses, not just whistleblowers, subpoenaing bank statements, etc. They found no money that went to Joe Biden (aside from a couple of loans being paid back with no interest), they couldn't find any evidence of foreign policy changes done in exchange for money Hunter Biden received from foreign sources, could find no witnesses to support the idea that Joe was involved in Hunter's businesses.

As for Hunter, before working for Burisma, he had served on the board of a couple of corporations -- so he did have experience. At Burisma they wanted him both for work he'd done in venture capital -- to bring in investments for Burisma -- as well as to be the board member overseeing their legal department. And before you bring up what Hunter didn't know about Burma's business, oil and gas, go look at the board of directors at Exxon-Mobil; how at least half of their board has zero experience in oil and gas, but instead have experience in law, insurance, finance, etc.

Other than that, Hunter worked in Venture Capital, largely finding projects in various overseas markets where he felt there were investment opportunities and then getting money from wealthy individuals and companies to invest in those companies. That was the service that was provided and, while it may not mean much to you, it did make Mitt Romney at least half a billion dollars (not that Hunter was anywhere near as good as Mitt at the job).
 
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NC Gov. Cooper opted out of Harris VP vetting, in part over worry about GOP lieutenant: AP sources

WASHINGTON (AP) — North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper opted not to be a candidate in Vice President Kamala Harris’ running mate search in part due to concerns that his Republican lieutenant governor would try to assume control if he left the state to campaign as part of the Democratic ticket, according to three people familiar with the matter.

[Cooper confirmed he withdrew: "wasn’t the right time for North Carolina and for me"]
 
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