Who Was Moses?

[Devin P]

I didn't really realize this, and I wanted the perspective of this from one who is of the tribe of Judah.

I've only seen a few examples of this, but it seems to be the majority, and I just wanted to get some opinions. So, after looking at a video of someone of the tribe of Judah explaining the story of Moses - they say that Moses was Jewish, and that it was the Pharaoh vs Judaism, and consequently, God. And that Moses was Jewish, and that those Egyptians that saw the undeniable truth of God working through Moses and God's wonders, converted, not into Israel, but into Judaism.

I just wanted to get some opinions, to see what others thought of this, so I could understand the thinking behind it. Is it not the majority that believe this? Or is it general and basic understanding of the Torah in Judaism today?

 

[Catherineanne]

I didn't really realize this, and I wanted the perspective of this from one who is of the tribe of Judah.

I've only seen a few examples of this, but it seems to be the majority, and I just wanted to get some opinions. So, after looking at a video of someone of the tribe of Judah explaining the story of Moses - they say that Moses was Jewish, and that it was the Pharaoh vs Judaism, and consequently, God. And that Moses was Jewish, and that those Egyptians that saw the undeniable truth of God working through Moses and God's wonders, converted, not into Israel, but into Judaism.

I just wanted to get some opinions, to see what others thought of this, so I could understand the thinking behind it. Is it not the majority that believe this? Or is it general and basic understanding of the Torah in Judaism today?

No problem with asking Messianics, of course, but what makes you think that Moses was not Jewish?

Where are you getting that from?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Dkh587]

No problem with asking Messianics, of course, but what makes you think that Moses was not Jewish?

Where are you getting that from?

Moses was not from the tribe of Yahudah(Judah), Moses was of the tribe of Levi

Therefore Moses was not a "Jew" nor was he "Jewish".

 

[Devin P]

No problem with asking Messianics, of course, but what makes you think that Moses was not Jewish?

Where are you getting that from?

From the Torah. Moses' great grandfather was Levi, therefore he wasn't from the tribe of Judah. It also explains why when he asked who was with him after he destroyed the golden calf, only the tribe of Levi joined him. Not only because biblically they are the ones with the swords, and the priests, but because he was from that specific tribe.

 

[Catherineanne]

From the Torah. Moses' great grandfather was Levi, therefore he wasn't from the tribe of Judah. It also explains why when he asked who was with him after he destroyed the golden calf, only the tribe of Levi joined him. Not only because biblically they are the ones with the swords, and the priests, but because he was from that specific tribe.

But to all intents and purposes when people speak of 'Jews' today they mean descendants of any and all of the 12 tribes, don't they? They don't mean only descendants of Judah, even though that might have once been the meaning.

 

[Devin P]

But to all intents and purposes when people speak of 'Jews' today they mean descendants of any and all of the 12 tribes, don't they? They don't mean only descendants of Judah, even though that might have once been the meaning.

Not really. I see where you're coming from for sure, but even your original response you used the word "Jewish", and not Israelite. Even amongst the teachers, they say that Egyptians saw Judaism, and wanted to convert, not, they saw Israelites, and wanted to convert.

Most people don't really understand the distinction between the two, or even that there is a distinction. Modern day Judaism is comprised of two tribes primarily, but people see all that they do, as specific to them, and that anyone else from any other tribes, must be Jewish, when that isn't so. The dispersion that happened, happened to 10 tribes. I'm of one of the other 10, I'm just not sure which. None of us that see the dispersion, and are coming to realize these things know for sure which tribe we're from just yet, it's too early in His plan to make that out. We're too young in the faith to really know, but more people need to know that what's considered "Judaism", as long as it's based on completely and specifically the Torah, isn't really "Judaism", it's just listening to יהוה.

I feel like, when more people come to accept that the law wasn't ever done away with, and that the Messiah never did away with the law, but only the curse of an adulterous bride, it'll help alleviate this merging of the two houses until He comes back again, but idk. We'll just have to see. Shabbat Shalom, sister!

 

[visionary]

Today's Judaism includes all tribes of Israel.

 

[Devin P]

Biblically, God never brought them back after the last dispersion, so that can't be when looking to the Tanank as our source of truth, nor when looking at the B'rit Chadashah. He was supposed to do so prior to the end, which, is starting to happen, but hasn't quite yet happened. As Jesus said, he's only come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[visionary]

Today's Judaism includes all tribes of Israel.

Shipments of people with Jewish blood in them, declaring themselves one of the lost tribes, have come to Israel.

 

[Devin P]

Shipments of people with Jewish blood in them, declaring themselves one of the lost tribes, have come to Israel.

"Jewish blood". That is the tribe of Judah, which is awesome. But, there's still 10 tribes that haven't been found yet. Jews are one tribe, technically two, because of Benjamin, but there's still 10 more tribes that will only return after judgement. But first before that, more people have to realize they're Israel than the amount that already have.

That's pretty cool to know though, I wasn't aware more of Judah came through.

 

[Devin P]

And not to mention, the 10 tribes, while they may have blood associated with each tribe (maybe) they're not really called because of their blood. It's by spirit, not blood. Just as if one wishes to be of Judah, so long as he does the customs of the Torah, he can be accepted as a brother, no longer a stranger.

After He was enraged with Israel and cast them to an unclean place (among gentiles after the Torah for leprous homes), from there also would He gather them in the end times (from among the gentiles).

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[danny ski]

According to the tradition in my family, we're part of the Tribe of Benjamin. I guess we're not Jewish either. LoL.

 

[ChavaK]

According to the tradition in my family, we're part of the Tribe of Benjamin. I guess we're not Jewish either. LoL.

My husband was a kohane.....guess he wasn't a Jew either

 

[Devin P]

According to the tradition in my family, we're part of the Tribe of Benjamin. I guess we're not Jewish either. LoL.

Yeah, I know in my bloodline I've got some Benjamin apparently (my cousin did the research, not me).

I don't know if I'd be of Benjamin though. I was a gentile before Yeshua, and have since started learning to keep Torah the way He commands us. I kind of wish to be of Levi. We get to pick based on where we choose to reside apparently, at least that's how a few verses imply it to be, which would be cool. Levi would be awesome to be a part of

 

[SolomonVII]

Well, I guess the thing is that twelve brothers raised together would have the same basic cultural outlook, and would be related by blood at the level of family, which is a more fundamental relation than that of tribe.
It is the same understanding that allows modern day Jews to retroactively declare Abraham to be Jewish. It is not just the same family tree being shared, but the same direct lineage.
Technically, the word Jewish does derive from the name Judah, and would only apply to people of that lineage, when taken in the narrowest sense. But the term has come to mean so much more than that. Languages are living, and evolving, and the meanings of words branch out and develop new meanings over time.

The thing about the ten lost tribes is that they were dispersed and merged into the surrounding populations so that they are indistinguishable from the populations that envelop them in any way. Claims to be of the clan of Israel are mythic for these assimilated people, although there may well be genetic ties to the dispersed tribes of Israel in any one of us. Jesus seeking out the lost sheep of Israel plays into this theme, and in effect it is Christianity that seeks to reintegrate Jews with the rest of God's chosen people, now seeded into the greater part of humanity.

 

[Devin P]

Well, I guess the thing is that twelve brothers raised together would have the same basic cultural outlook, and would be related by blood at the level of family, which is a more fundamental relation than that of tribe.
It is the same understanding that allows modern day Jews to retroactively declare Abraham to be Jewish. It is not just the same family tree being shared, but the same direct lineage.
Technically, the word Jewish does derive from the name Judah, and would only apply to people of that lineage, when taken in the narrowest sense. But the term has come to mean so much more than that. Languages are living, and evolving, and the meanings of words branch out and develop new meanings over time.

The thing about the ten lost tribes is that they were dispersed and merged into the surrounding populations so that they are indistinguishable from the populations that envelop them in any way. Claims to be of the clan of Israel are mythic for these assimilated people, although there may well be genetic ties to the dispersed tribes of evil in any one of us. Jesus seeking out the lost sheep of Israel plays into this theme, and in effect it is Christianity that seeks to reintegrate Jews with the rest of God's chosen people, now seeded into the greater part of humanity.

True, they are of the same bloodline, you raise a great point indeed. See, the only thing that's harmful calling the entire way of living with God, and following Torah, as Jewish, harms a lot of what the Tanakh was about. The prophets talked about how God would disperse the the 10 tribes among the gentiles, and that they would one day be brought back after they had forgotten entirely who they were, God's name יהוה, and the Torah of Elohim would be unknown to us, and be strange. Which, has definitely happened. But because of a lack of knowledge, it's incredibly hard to show anyone that the Torah is still meant to be followed by those that believe in Jesus.

Even though the early church fathers kept Torah and observed the biblical feasts until 320 AD - 400 AD. Even though they were forced to stop observing these things by being killed if they were caught, because of Constantine. Jews, and the Christians alike, forgot about this happening. Now, the Christians feel Jews are foolish because they keep Torah, and the Jews don't believe Christians, because the majority of them believe the Torah was done away with, even though God's blessings are insanely obvious on the Jewish people for keeping Torah. Idk, it's no one's fault, but it's a big circle that gets nothing done. We need to come together, and grow together. We will, because the Gentiles are waking up to Torah left and right. Verses that we just passed over showing that Paul and Peter, etc. not only kept biblical feast days after the cross, but that groups of people did. That, and entire books in the NT were written to a dispersed Israel scattered abroad. There's no way we could've overlooked all of the undeniable evidence unless Father's hand was at play.

Whether it's cutting out unclean foods, observing feast days, etc, Torah is slowly but surely making ground with the Gentiles. I am a testament to this. We're babies when it comes to it, but we're learning. Halleluyah!

 

[visionary]

If they ever figure out what family tree the Cherokee branch is, then I will be able to say that I come from that line. I have heard it said that you must have Jewish blood in you to have this desire to obey Torah and love God. I don't actually think that is true. But it is fun to check and see.. but alas not even six generations on either side show any signs of Jewish blood.

 

[Devin P]

If they ever figure out what family tree the Cherokee branch is, then I will be able to say that I come from that line. I have heard it said that you must have Jewish blood in you to have this desire to obey Torah and love God. I don't actually think that is true. But it is fun to check and see.. but alas not even six generations on either side show any signs of Jewish blood.

That's the beauty of Yeshua (Jesus), by believing on what He did, your flesh is crucified and His obedient spirit causes you to desire the Torah and it's loving kindnesses. Meaning that bloodline no longer matters in the 10 tribes. Whichever tribe you wishto reside in you will get your inheritance in.

As He told Peter, unless He washes your feet you have no part with Him.