Who was God talking about in this verse?

[frost]

Genesis 13:14-17 (NIV)

The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Lift up your eyes from where you are and look north and south, east and west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted. Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you."

I've heard people say that, "your offspring," applies to the Hebrews, and I've heard this applies to the Elect of all ages. Opinions?

 

[reformedfan]

Genesis 13:14-17 (NIV)

The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Lift up your eyes from where you are and look north and south, east and west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted. Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you."

I've heard people say that, "your offspring," applies to the Hebrews, and I've heard this applies to the Elect of all ages. Opinions?

I've always heard it refers to the elect of all ages, including those Hebrews who were the elect. The rest of this is my speculation.
Romans9:6-26 touches on this pretty good I think. Stephen's reference to this passage in his pre death speech in Acts 7 seems to indicate physical Israel, though he was preaching Spiritual issues, not just temporal ones. There is no doubt that he knew of & believed God's promise to extend the covenant to non Hebrews.
As the geographic destination refered to in this Genesis verse, I guess physical Israel inherited the temporal aspects of this promise. Therefore, even the Ishamels & Esaus were abundantly fruitful with kids & princes in their lineages (Gen. 21:18, Gen. 25:12-18, etc.) But to see this as Spiritual, with Canaan as a picture of heaven, Christ as King over the universe now, etc. then Spiritual Israel benefits from this promise in a Spiritual rather than geographic sense.
Great question! I haven't been here in a long time, it's nice to see this forum!

 

[Abruer17]

Good question. Paul answers this in his epistle to the Galatians,

"6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"? 7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed." 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. "

 

[tigersnare]

Not Muslims

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

I think you guys are making these verses too difficult. It looks like God is just explaining to Abraham that his descendants will be numerous, as we are all descendants of him if you trace our ancestry back far enough.

 

[frost]

I think you guys are making these verses too difficult. It looks like God is just explaining to Abraham that his descendants will be numerous, as we are all descendants of him if you trace our ancestry back far enough.

That is the way I've always interpreted it. However lately as I've been studying covenant theology, I'm seeing passages such as this pointing specifically to the Elect. Otherwise, you run into issues of OT covenants not applying to modern-day Christians which is the basis of dispensational theology.

 

[Abruer17]

Gabriel: Not everyone comes from Abraham. There were more people alive than just him and his wife...

Paul made it pretty clear as to what it means.

 

[tigersnare]

Gabriel: Not everyone comes from Abraham. There were more people alive than just him and his wife...

Paul made it pretty clear as to what it means.

Easy friend..I"m pretty sure Bro Gabe was talkin about all Christians or similar, not all people on earth.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.”

All believers, Old Testiment and New Testiment alike are children of Abraham.

The pharisees, being Jews considered themselves children of Abraham, but Jesus told them that if they were children of Abraham, they would know Jesus. He said rather that they were the children of their father, the devil.

 

[Gabriel]

That is the way I've always interpreted it. However lately as I've been studying covenant theology, I'm seeing passages such as this pointing specifically to the Elect. Otherwise, you run into issues of OT covenants not applying to modern-day Christians which is the basis of dispensational theology.

You got it, my good man. And as Wilfred says above, "All believers, Old Testament and New Testament alike are children of Abraham." Believers being the key word. It's not about our bloodline, it's about our adoption papers.

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

Sounds good to me!

 

[Abruer17]

Amen.