Who Started The War In Ukraine, Dare To Read?

[jacks]

Thank you for very informative history of WW2.

Do you think the new alliance between the US, Russia, China, and North Korea versus the UK and Europe will benefit the USA?

I think the more alliances we have the better. My post was pointing out that who we perceive as the "enemy" varies over time and circumstances. If you had asked people 70 years ago if Germany and Japan should be our allies, they would have thought it was a ridiculous if not treasonous question.

 

[Truth7t7]

Thank you for very informative history of WW2.

Do you think the new alliance between the US, Russia, China, and North Korea versus the UK and Europe will benefit the USA?

False claim

The only alliance somewhat being looked at between the US is with Russia, and it's about business for the US and removing the threat of future war

The iron curtain and Berlin wall fell 35 years ago, and it's been hostile NATO expansion eastward ever since

China is the world's enemy #1 presently and the 106th congress sold America out, Senate 10 seat Republican Majority, House 22 seat Republican majority, The U.S.–China Relations Act of 2000 was signed into law by Bill Clinton

You will closely note that every safeguard in the trade act in "Bold Red" below has been violated by China, the act needs to be rescinded IMHO, in the meantime China will be tariffed in reversing trade with the world's enemy China

Wikipedia: United States–China Relations Act of 2000​

The U.S.–China Relations Act of 2000 is an Act of the United States Congress that granted China permanent normal trade relations (NTR) status (previously called most favoured nation (MFN)) when China becomes a full member of the World Trade Organization (WTO), ending annual review and approval of NTR. It was signed into law on October 10, 2000, by United States President Bill Clinton. The Act also establishes a Congressional-Executive Commission to ensure that China complies with internationally recognized human rights laws, meets labor standards and allows religious freedom, and establishes a task force to prohibit the importation of Chinese products that were made in forced labor camps or prisons.[1] The Act also includes so-called "anti-dumping" measures designed to prevent an influx of inexpensive Chinese goods into the United States that might hurt American industries making the same goods. It allows new duties and restrictions on Chinese imports that "threaten to cause market disruption to the U.S. producers of a like or directly competitive product."[2]

 

[Truth7t7]

I think the more alliances we have the better. My post was pointing out that who we perceive as the "enemy" varies over time and circumstances. If you had asked people 70 years ago if Germany and Japan should be our allies, they would have thought it was a ridiculous if not treasonous question.

I Agree 100% the more alliances the better

Japan is supporting the largest share of the US debt presently, Japanese vehicles being made in America, while Ford, Chevy, etc being made in Mexico and Canada hard to believe but true, Japan is a close ally with the US presently

Russian Putin hasn't been the aggressor, it's been the western world through NATO that's the aggressor, opening relations up with Russia is a good thing, same applies to North Korea, China needs to be put under close watch and tariffs, foreign trade profits are being spent of their Military that expanded 3 fold in the past 20 years, while they press Taiwan, Panama Canal, South China Sea building islands and military bases, they're involved in many hostile aggressions in the world presently

Who would have believed Obama and Biden would overthrow a democratically elected country in Ukraine Feb 2014 and install a puppet government against the peoples will, they installed (Arseniy Yatsenyuk) and the people in the vast majority wanted (Vitali Klitschko), same applied to Iraq (Bush), Libya (Obama), and many other world countries, "Evil"!

 

[Vambram]

Trump’s polling vs. Biden on Russia-Ukraine stuns CNN data guru: ‘Holy cow!’

President Donald Trump’s shout down of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky last week created quite the debate.

Some felt it was shameful and a terrible look for the United States. Some felt it was long overdue. What does the polling say? Well, CNN data guru Harry Enten broke it down on Monday, and he sounded a bit surprised to begin with.
“Do Americans like the way that Trump is handling his job compared to how they felt about Joe Biden,” he said while showing a graph highlighting the net approval rating of each president when it came to the handling of the Russia-Ukraine situation. “You look at Joe Biden back in 2024, he was 22 points underwater, holy cow? You look at Donald Trump, it’s just a different planet entirely. The gulf between these two is wider than the Gulf of America or Mexico depending on which side of the aisle you stand on. (Trump) is at plus-2.

“So, look at this particular point, Americans are giving Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt,” Enten continued. “He’s doing considerably better than Joe Biden was doing on the handling of the Russia-Ukraine conflict. On this simple question, I think Americans are saying, ‘OK, Donald Trump is doing alright on this.’”

Trump’s polling vs. Biden on Russia-Ukraine stuns CNN data guru: ‘Holy cow!’

There are some interesting polling numbers out there.

www.pennlive.com

 

[mindlight]

Barrack Obama, Joe Biden, and their secretary of state Victoria Nuland & Ukraine Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt started the conflict in Ukraine, they planned the overthrow of its government in the Maidan Coup Feb 2014 and installed their puppet government, Obama and his Admin were the aggressors against Russia starting the conflict, and at the end of the 4:19 conversation below "Bidens Willing"!

Victoria Nuland, leaked phone call plans the Ukraine coup and its US replacement government! YouTube Call 4:19 Feb 4, 2014​

​

Radio Free Europe​

Brussels, Kyiv, Moscow React To Leaked Nuland Phone Call​

February 07, 2014

So, those were Americans on the street during the mass demonstrations? I did not realise that the USA had so many foreign agents. And, of course, this had nothing to do with the president Yanukovych's changes to the constitution and movement toward Russia. The country was divided on which way Ukraine should orientate toward its future - West or East but Putin just hates that the people chose the West as was shown in the 2014 election results one month later.

 

[mindlight]

Trump’s polling vs. Biden on Russia-Ukraine stuns CNN data guru: ‘Holy cow!’

President Donald Trump’s shout down of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky last week created quite the debate.

Some felt it was shameful and a terrible look for the United States. Some felt it was long overdue. What does the polling say? Well, CNN data guru Harry Enten broke it down on Monday, and he sounded a bit surprised to begin with.
“Do Americans like the way that Trump is handling his job compared to how they felt about Joe Biden,” he said while showing a graph highlighting the net approval rating of each president when it came to the handling of the Russia-Ukraine situation. “You look at Joe Biden back in 2024, he was 22 points underwater, holy cow? You look at Donald Trump, it’s just a different planet entirely. The gulf between these two is wider than the Gulf of America or Mexico depending on which side of the aisle you stand on. (Trump) is at plus-2.

“So, look at this particular point, Americans are giving Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt,” Enten continued. “He’s doing considerably better than Joe Biden was doing on the handling of the Russia-Ukraine conflict. On this simple question, I think Americans are saying, ‘OK, Donald Trump is doing alright on this.’”

Trump’s polling vs. Biden on Russia-Ukraine stuns CNN data guru: ‘Holy cow!’

There are some interesting polling numbers out there.

www.pennlive.com

Playing to his domestic audience is pointless since he is not up for election next time round. But he is creating deep divisions with allies the way he is playing this.

 

[mindlight]

The United States, as the sole superpower, along with NATO, the strongest military alliance the world has ever seen, does not allow Russia to dictate who can be a US ally or a member of NATO.

Decisions on NATO membership are determined solely by NATO members, not by Russia. If Russia opposes NATO's decision and attacks another country, NATO should respond appropriately. NATO needs to communicate to Russia that it does not take directives from other countries.

The most saddening and shocking part is that some American citizens blame America’s past 80 years foreign policy and side with a dictator and a country that has taken more innocent lives since 1945 than any other country post-WW2.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine proves the value of NATO. As both Finland and Sweden agree.

 

[mindlight]

Your 100% correct, Ukraine and Georgia were Russia's red line, and the Feb 2014 coup in Ukraine and the US puppet government installed crossed that red line, and Russia spent 8 solid years trying to negotiate with the US, EU, and NATO to deaf ears

The Feb 2022 war in Ukraine wasn't a big surprise, it all started in Feb 2014 under Obama, the coup, replacement government, and continued violations of the Minsk agreements

Many are ignorant to the factual history regarding Ukraine, living in a fairy tale fantasy bubble of yesterday's MSM propaganda

Would the US allow Mexico or Canada to join alliances with China and install missile bases on the US southern and northern borders "Absolutely Not"! It would be an immediate declaration of war, Russia is no different, but many are willfully blind to this "Fact" poking the big red Russian Bear into a corner, having the largest and most sophisticated nuclear arsenal in the world "Crazy"!

If only the treaty in Istanbul Turkey would have been signed by Zelensky May 2022, the untold lives that could have been saved, US Biden and UK Boris Johnson stopped his signature on the document that had "minor" concessions IMHO, 1. Neutrality No Nato "SAD"!

The European Conservative​

Official: Johnson Forced Kyiv To Refuse Russian Peace Deal​

Nov 27, 2023

Russia was ready to end the war and withdraw its troops in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality just a few months after the invasion began and was refused partly because of ex-British PM Boris Johnson, who pressured Kyiv into continuing the fight, David Arahamiya, the leader of Ukraine’s ruling party confirmed in a recent interview, published on Friday, November 24th.

The lawmaker is not only leading the parliamentary faction of Zelensky’s Servant of the People party but was also appointed as the head of the Ukrainian delegation during the initial, tentative peace talks in March and April, hosted by Turkey.

Russia’s ultimate goal was to press Ukraine into neutrality, Arahamiya explained, adding that all other requests (like the elusive ‘de-nazification’) were essentially empty cosmetics, and neutrality would have been enough for Russia to agree to withdraw beyond the February 24th frontlines.

In the days of empire, spheres of influence informed the diplomacy between powers. When the Soviet Empire fell, a great many countries split out of it. Most of these have no intent of ever rejoining it. Can a people be allocated to a sphere of influence in the way Russia does this without their consent is the real question today? America's allies are clamoring for a relationship with it because of the security advantages it gives them in defense of their national borders. But Russia's neighbors eye it anxiously and wish they lived further away.

So when Putin describes his historical right to annex Russia's backyard. Why is he so surprised when the people say no? Maybe because he still speaks KGB, not freedom?

I also worry when an American president adopts the same manner of conversation about his own neighbors in Canada and Greenland. But it seems very little will come of those statements from trump.

 

[mindlight]

The error during President George W. Bush's administration in the Middle East was not our engagement itself but rather the assumption that a society still strive to 5th-century Islamic caliphate could adopt modern democracy.

Agreed, having deposed Sadam and established there were no WMDs, we should have put a sympathetic regime in charge and left. Given the absence of democracy, that should probably have been someone from the old Sunni elite who was not anti-Kurdish. Hindsight is 20/20. I wonder if the Taliban would have been so popular had we not stayed twenty years also - the most successful British strategy vis a vis Afghanistan was to rule the place through puppets and only intervene when they misbehaved. Paying off warlords was cheaper than occupying the place.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

False claim

The only alliance somewhat being looked at between the US is with Russia, and it's about business for the US and removing the threat of future war

The iron curtain and Berlin wall fell 35 years ago, and it's been hostile NATO expansion eastward ever since

China is the world's enemy #1 presently and the 106th congress sold America out, Senate 10 seat Republican Majority, House 22 seat Republican majority, The U.S.–China Relations Act of 2000 was signed into law by Bill Clinton

You will closely note that every safeguard in the trade act in "Bold Red" below has been violated by China, the act needs to be rescinded IMHO, in the meantime China will be tariffed in reversing trade with the world's enemy China

Wikipedia: United States–China Relations Act of 2000​

The U.S.–China Relations Act of 2000 is an Act of the United States Congress that granted China permanent normal trade relations (NTR) status (previously called most favoured nation (MFN)) when China becomes a full member of the World Trade Organization (WTO), ending annual review and approval of NTR. It was signed into law on October 10, 2000, by United States President Bill Clinton. The Act also establishes a Congressional-Executive Commission to ensure that China complies with internationally recognized human rights laws, meets labor standards and allows religious freedom, and establishes a task force to prohibit the importation of Chinese products that were made in forced labor camps or prisons.[1] The Act also includes so-called "anti-dumping" measures designed to prevent an influx of inexpensive Chinese goods into the United States that might hurt American industries making the same goods. It allows new duties and restrictions on Chinese imports that "threaten to cause market disruption to the U.S. producers of a like or directly competitive product."[2]

Why do you consider China a top adversary? What actions have the Chinese taken towards America? Has China annexed land from its neighbors and occupied it? Has China caused significant harm or fatalities to its neighboring countries and claimed their territory?

If you dislike China, avoid purchasing Chinese-made TVs, shirts, ties, or shoes during your next visit to Walmart.

If Americans believe China is bad, they should stop buying Chinese products, and China will no longer be a US adversary. It’s that easy.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Trump’s polling vs. Biden on Russia-Ukraine stuns CNN data guru: ‘Holy cow!’

President Donald Trump’s shout down of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky last week created quite the debate.

Some felt it was shameful and a terrible look for the United States. Some felt it was long overdue. What does the polling say? Well, CNN data guru Harry Enten broke it down on Monday, and he sounded a bit surprised to begin with.
“Do Americans like the way that Trump is handling his job compared to how they felt about Joe Biden,” he said while showing a graph highlighting the net approval rating of each president when it came to the handling of the Russia-Ukraine situation. “You look at Joe Biden back in 2024, he was 22 points underwater, holy cow? You look at Donald Trump, it’s just a different planet entirely. The gulf between these two is wider than the Gulf of America or Mexico depending on which side of the aisle you stand on. (Trump) is at plus-2.

“So, look at this particular point, Americans are giving Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt,” Enten continued. “He’s doing considerably better than Joe Biden was doing on the handling of the Russia-Ukraine conflict. On this simple question, I think Americans are saying, ‘OK, Donald Trump is doing alright on this.’”

Trump’s polling vs. Biden on Russia-Ukraine stuns CNN data guru: ‘Holy cow!’

There are some interesting polling numbers out there.

www.pennlive.com

President Biden's job approval rating significantly declined in the summer of 2021 during the withdrawal from Afghanistan and the emergence of a new COVID-19 variant that increased fatalities. Since then, his approval rating has not recovered. President Biden's coalition that won in 2020 was more a vote against President Trump than for Biden. Many of these voters left Biden as soon as inflation rose. By the time the Russo-Ukrainian war began, many Americans were dissatisfied with President Biden and did not give him a second chance.

On the other hand, President Trump's strength lies in his ability to retain his core supporters. Approximately 30% to 35% of Americans strongly support President Trump. They believe in the policies he promised during his campaign and view him as the only politician in their lifetime who has addressed and attempted to implement these policies. These voters will support President Trump no matter what.

When President Trump has such an unshakable support from his core voters, it is possible to garner an additional 15% support from other Americans who are not partisan.

What concerns me the most is how conservative America has moved away from the Reagan-Bush foreign policy. I fully understand and accept that the W. Bush foreign policy had some issues. The Iraq war was unnecessary, and our 20 years of engagement in the Middle East and Afghanistan was a mistake. However, the shift of conservative America away from the US-Europe alliance is more disturbing than anything else.

 

[Truth7t7]

So, those were Americans on the street during the mass demonstrations? I did not realise that the USA had so many foreign agents. And, of course, this had nothing to do with the president Yanukovych's changes to the constitution and movement toward Russia. The country was divided on which way Ukraine should orientate toward its future - West or East but Putin just hates that the people chose the West as was shown in the 2014 election results one month later.

"Reality Check", the US installed Ukraines government in 2014, try listening to the OP leaked phone call again

 

[Truth7t7]

Playing to his domestic audience is pointless since he is not up for election next time round. But he is creating deep divisions with allies the way he is playing this.

You mean Donald J. Trump has kicked the milking stool out from underneath the EU cutting off American aid, and now their gonna pay their own way

Of course the EU is rolling on the ground crying like little babies, their American free candy store is closed, lol!

 

[Truth7t7]

Why do you consider China a top adversary? What actions have the Chinese taken towards America? Has China annexed land from its neighbors and occupied it? Has China caused significant harm or fatalities to its neighboring countries and claimed their territory?

If you dislike China, avoid purchasing Chinese-made TVs, shirts, ties, or shoes during your next visit to Walmart.

If Americans believe China is bad, they should stop buying Chinese products, and China will no longer be a US adversary. It’s that easy.

It's very apparent your unaware of China's world aggression, human rights and environmental issues

Communist China is world enemy #1

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

It's very apparent your unaware of China's world aggression, human rights and environmental issues

Communist China is world enemy #1

I am aware of China's history concerning human rights and environmental issues. Can you explain how these actions have made China the #1 enemy of United States?

by the way, human rights in Russian history are as poor as in Chinese history, yet you see no issue advocating peace with Russia.

 

[Truth7t7]

yet you see no issue advocating peace with Russia.

It's on Russia's terms or the complete destruction of Ukraine

As VP Vance stated Ukraine is out of soldiers, and that's not a mis-statement

Peace or Die the actor-comedian Zelensky will make his choice

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

It's on Russia's terms or the complete destruction of Ukraine

As VP Vance stated Ukraine is out of soldiers, and that's not a mis-statement

Peace or Die the actor-comedian Zelensky will make his choice

If it is on Russia’s terms, I must respectfully point out that it is not peace, but appeasement. The Leader of the Free World, with the support of NATO and entire Western world, is advising Ukraine to appease Putin.

 

[Truth7t7]

If it is on Russia’s terms, I must respectfully point out that it is not peace, but appeasement. The Leader of the Free World, with the support of NATO and entire Western world, is advising Ukraine to appease Putin.

Reality Check

Zelensky is defeated as I write, he was pulling people off the streets and out of busses a year ago, Putin is moving forward at lightning speed

The US is done funding the war in Ukraine, and the EU would basically be in the same boat, Zelensky is "Done", do you think Putin is ignorant of this fact "Hardly"

Zelensky and his army are out of weapons, ammunition, soldiers, and US support, he will either surrender to the negotiating table or be slaughtered on the battle field and the world is aware of this fact

As president Trump stated Zelensky has no cards to bring to the table, it will be Russias demands that are met or die on the battlefield

My Opinion: Putin will require no NATO membership for Ukraine, Russia will keep the present territory gained in Ukraine, elections will be held and a friendly government will be installed, and most likely Ukraines military will be disbanded

Zelensky supporters can roll on the ground and kick their feet in disagreement all they want, Russian demands will be met or the Ukranian soldiers will continue to die on the battle field with dead hands clutching to rifles without ammo

BBC​

Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding​

16 June 2024

Dark storm clouds threatened to upend Serhiy and Tania’s beach wedding. But as the couple walked down the long white staircase to greet their guests, the empty chairs signalled there was a bigger problem. In total, half of their guests were missing.
Their family and friends sent their apologies but explained that the risk of attending had been too great. What if they had been caught by one of the conscription squads, which now roam Ukraine’s streets?
With many of its soldiers dead, injured or exhausted, the Ukrainian government has stepped up its efforts to mobilise more men.
A new law, introduced in May, requires every man aged between 25 and 60 to log their details on an electronic database so they can be called up. Conscription officers are on the hunt for those avoiding the register, pushing more men who do not want to serve into hiding.

Tania pictured here in Odesa with her father, who was killed on the front line in eastern Ukraine in October

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Reality Check

Zelensky is defeated as I write, he was pulling people off the streets and out of busses a year ago, Putin is moving forward at lightning speed

The US is done funding the war in Ukraine, and the EU would basically be in the same boat, Zelensky is "Done", do you think Putin is ignorant of this fact "Hardly"

Zelensky and his army are out of weapons, ammunition, soldiers, and US support, he will either surrender to the negotiating table or be slaughtered on the battle field and the world is aware of this fact

As president Trump stated Zelensky has no cards to bring to the table, it will be Russias demands that are met or die on the battlefield

My Opinion: Putin will require no NATO membership for Ukraine, Russia will keep the present territory gained in Ukraine, elections will be held and a friendly government will be installed, and most likely Ukraines military will be disbanded

Zelensky supporters can roll on the ground and kick their feet in disagreement all they want, Russian demands will be met or the Ukranian soldiers will continue to die on the battle field with dead hands clutching to rifles without ammo

BBC​

Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding​

16 June 2024

Dark storm clouds threatened to upend Serhiy and Tania’s beach wedding. But as the couple walked down the long white staircase to greet their guests, the empty chairs signalled there was a bigger problem. In total, half of their guests were missing.
Their family and friends sent their apologies but explained that the risk of attending had been too great. What if they had been caught by one of the conscription squads, which now roam Ukraine’s streets?
With many of its soldiers dead, injured or exhausted, the Ukrainian government has stepped up its efforts to mobilise more men.
A new law, introduced in May, requires every man aged between 25 and 60 to log their details on an electronic database so they can be called up. Conscription officers are on the hunt for those avoiding the register, pushing more men who do not want to serve into hiding.

Tania pictured here in Odesa with her father, who was killed on the front line in eastern Ukraine in October

Thank you for your honest assessment. In short, your idea of peace is giving Putin what he wants.

The "leader of the free world" prefers to appease a dictator rather than oppose tyranny.