Who Should Control the city of Jerusalem?

[icedtea]

Like a good start.

So you are saying you want Israel eliminated.

 

[MezzaMorta]

Sigh. Give us a link? Also, Prescott Bush, the presidents grandfather did too. Not news.

http://www.freearabvoice.org/naziZionistCooperation.htm
http://www.naszawitryna.pl/jedwabne_en_101.html

 

[MezzaMorta]

So you are saying you want Israel eliminated.

Define eliminated, to I believe that the current state of Israel is immoral and illegal and should be dismantled... of course.

 

[icedtea]

How do you propose doing this legally without attempting to wipe it off the map?
God will never let that happen.

 

[MezzaMorta]

How do you propose doing this legally without attempting to wipe it off the map?
God will never let that happen.

So nothing occurs with out God letting it? What does the modern state of Israel have to do with God? It is a secular nation, comprised of mainly non-practicing Jews.

How do i propose doing so? who knows, there are many ways. Though force is aways one option, it was how Israel created itself seems only a fitting end. Or though international sanctions like led to the end of Apartheid South Africa or simply by democracy, granding democratic rights to all those liveing under Israeli rule (Palestinian majority) and allowing them to do it from with in.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

http://www.freearabvoice.org/naziZionistCooperation.htm
http://www.naszawitryna.pl/jedwabne_en_101.html

Was I supposed to read those without laughing?

 

[MezzaMorta]

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/nazisupport.cfm

 

[yod]

Palestinians against Palestine. The average citizens are already longing for Israel to control Gaza again


http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3413446,00.html

 

[yod]

You do know that Zionist groups supported the Nazis during WW2 right?

and you know that the father of the modern terrorist movement (and uncle of Arafat) was the grand mufti of jerusalem, right?


I have pictures of him smiling and shaking Hitler's hand. Can you produce anything like that for your vain imaginations?

 

[MezzaMorta]

and you know that the father of the modern terrorist movement (and uncle of Arafat) was the grand mufti of jerusalem, right?

Define modern terrorism.

Because the tactics the Palestinians are using today are the exact same one Zionist groups used in the 20's and 30's against the British.

 

[yod]

Palestinians against Palestine. The average citizens are already longing for Israel to control Gaza again


http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3413446,00.html

Just in case you missed that....


Did you see jews blow up an elementary school? Did you see them cut off Daniel Pearl's head? Did they take over a movie theatre full of innocent people? Did they hijack a plane of civilians and fly into a building?

No...you didn't because it never happens.

There is no moral equivalent. You have to go back 80 years to find anything even close...while the front pages of every newspaper over the last 80 years have examples of what a real terrorist is.

Do you get out much?

 

[MezzaMorta]

[FONT=&quot] Did you see jews blow up an elementary school?

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[FONT=&quot] I’ve see it with my own eyes several times. [/FONT]
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Did you see them cut off Daniel Pearl's head?

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[FONT=&quot]I’ve seen them murder civilians just the same, dose it really make a difference if it is with a knife in front of a 20$ video camera or with a 50 million dollar jet and a 40 thousand dollar laser guided bomb? [/FONT]
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Did they hijack a plane of civilians and fly into a building?

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[FONT=&quot]Possibly, all the evidence concerning Israel’s connection to 9/11 is classified. [/FONT]
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You have to go back 80 years to find anything even close

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[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Just a few weeks ago Israel bombed a Palestinian lawmakers house in an assignation attempt, instead of killing him they killed his wife and seven children. There is a similar story every week. I don’t need to go back 80 years, I don’t even need to go back more than 3 days to see Israel killing another innocent person. [/FONT]

 

[yod]

[FONT=&quot]Did you see jews blow up an elementary school?[/FONT]


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[FONT=&quot]I’ve see it with my own eyes several times. [/FONT]

[/FONT]

Baloney. That would sell a lot of newspapers and make CNN and BBC headlines for a month....like the phoney "massacre of Jenin" did.

Just a few weeks ago Israel bombed a Palestinian lawmakers house in an assignation attempt, instead of killing him they killed his wife and seven children.

Hamas or Fatah?

If you commit a crime and the police come after you, there is always the danger that those around you and those you hide behind will be hurt.

 

[archangelmichael]

I believe even if the 'palestinians' took 100% of Israel, they still wouldn't be happy. They would still want all jews dead.
Nothing will please them.

I believe that you are correct. And you are hitting on the point I was making when I asked this question. I don't believe that any peace talks should occur until the Jerusalem question is settled because any agreement is useless without solving this issue.

Michael

 

[MezzaMorta]

[FONT=&quot] Baloney. That would sell a lot of newspapers and make CNN and BBC headlines for a month

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[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I really cannot comment as to how much exposure the Israeli war in Lebanon last July got as I was in Lebanon and didn’t have any access to the outside world. But last count a total of 135 schools were destroyed by Israeli guided bombs in Lebanon, most of them in Beirut and many of them I saw the destruction myself. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]

Hamas or Fatah?

If you commit a crime and the police come after you, there is always the danger that those around you and those you hide behind will be hurt.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A democratically elected Palestinian member of parliament. Israel tried to assiginate him and killed his entire family instead. Not the first time. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Show me the last time the Police have come to arrest someone in the US and instead killed their entire family? In fact show me the last time the Police have gone after someone with a f-16 and a guided bomb into their house in the middle of the night?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Ruby Ridge is the last situation that even comes close…. And that is a long shot.[/FONT]




There is no defending the actions of Israel, any rational and moral human can only condemn them. [FONT=&quot][/FONT]


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[yod]

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[FONT=&quot]I really cannot comment as to how much exposure the Israeli war in Lebanon last July got as I was in Lebanon and didn’t have any access to the outside world. But last count a total of 135 schools were destroyed by Israeli guided bombs in Lebanon, most of them in Beirut and many of them I saw the destruction myself. [/FONT]

and those places had been taken over and used as hideouts for Hezbollah. The leadership high-tailed it out of southern lebanon because they understood that Israel was coming after them. Those cowards ALWAYS hide behind the skirts of women and children and are transported by ambulances.

Cowardice pure and simple...

[FONT=&quot]A democratically elected Palestinian member of parliament. Israel tried to assiginate him and killed his entire family instead. Not the first time. [/FONT]

Without even knowing who you refer to, i can guarantee that it wasn't some random attack against an arab

Give his name and it will take only a few seconds to find out which terrorist bombing of civilians he was behind.

You know that...you could do it yourself...but you prefer the murder of Israelis so anything done against jews is justifiable to you...and any action taken against known terrorists is spun as "victimization"

How sad...

I believe it is important that we are able to have a dialogue on these matters. I have never supported the death of civilians...or war for war's sake...yet the people you support have no other agenda that the death of every jew in Israel. They make no secret of this yet you act as if they are pillars of virtue.

It's impossible to have a rational discussion with you because your debate is utterly intellectually dishonest. You rarely deal with the substance of what I testify (though I have more experience and contacts in the Middle East than you) choosing rather to make personal attacks against me for my being able to refute your wild imagination...and racist attitudes.

 

[MezzaMorta]

[FONT=&quot] and those places had been taken over and used as hideouts for Hezbollah.

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[FONT=&quot] No they were destroyed because Israel was trying to enact as painful vengeance upon the Lebanese people as they could, which is why they specifically targeted civilian infustructure across Lebanon. [/FONT]
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The leadership high-tailed it out of southern lebanon because they understood that Israel was coming after them.

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[FONT=&quot] Hezbollah leadership is not in southern Lebanon. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]

Those cowards ALWAYS hide behind the skirts of women and children and are transported by ambulances.

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[FONT=&quot] They were not hiding behind women or children. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]

Give his name and it will take only a few seconds to find out which terrorist bombing of civilians he was behind.

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Khalil al-Hayya
“The Israeli Air Force struck the home of a Hamas Parliament member in Gaza on Sunday night, killing eight people, Palestinian hospital officials said. The Parliament member, Khalil al-Hayya, was not in the house at the time.”
[FONT=&quot]http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/21/africa/21mideast.php[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6674927.stm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

but you prefer the murder of Israelis so anything done against jews is justifiable to you

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[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] You’re right, my “hatred” for Israel is because they are Jews… it is not because of the oppression and occupation of Palestinian land. It is not because I have witnessed with my own eyes the brutality and atrocities committed by the Zionists, it is not because of the Apartheid enacted upon the Arab people, it is not because of the land stolen by these White Europeans, it is not because they bomb, murder, shoot, stone, execute, assaginate… innocent people. No… of course not… all those logical and rational reasons to oppose the Zionist entity and I do so just because I plane hate Jews….. yet live amongst the largest Jewish population outside of Israel. [/FONT]
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though I have more experience and contacts in the Middle East than you

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[FONT=&quot] Lol…… more notions of grandeur… how comical. [/FONT]

 

[ParsonJefferson]

I am utterly amazed that ANYBODY would have the lack of integrity necessary to defend, and aggrandize Hezbollah.

 

[Adoniram]

And Israel is we, the body of Christians though out the world with Jesus as our temple. The modern, secular, socialist state in Palestine which calls itself Israel has absolutely nothing to do with God, or that promise of him to us.

You have made this statement about Christians being Israel, and implying that God has abandoned the Jews several times. I am wondering where you get this. It certainly isn't Biblical. If you think it is, please state the scripture reference(s).

it is not because they bomb, murder, shoot, stone, execute, assaginate… innocent people.

There are no "innocent people" in Hezbollah, Hamas, or al Queda. There's quite a difference between a legitimate state army (the IDF) carrying out acts of war against enemy combatants that are shooting at them and a band of fanatics (Hezbollah and Hamas)[FONT=&quot] strapping bombs onto teenage kids and women and sending them out into restaurants, shopping centers, and buses to blow up themselves and as many other people as they can. Or commandeering an airplane and flying it into a building. And most civilized people in the world understand this, a fact that you are apparently blind to.

Now it is a terrible thing that the IDF's offensive against Hezbollah last summer wreaked so much havoc with the Lebanese people and infrastructure. Of course, if the Lebanese people, who seem to be reasonable enough on the whole, had forced Hezbollah to give up those two Israeli soldiers, it could all have been avoided.

But, it's the same with the majority of Arab/Muslim people over there in the ME. A few bad apples are giving the majority a bad name, yet the majority just stand by and let them get away with it. Then they complain because they are getting a bad name. If the majority of the Arab/Palestinian/Muslim world would crack down on their own bad guys, then the rest of the world would respect them a lot more.
[/FONT]

 

[MezzaMorta]

[FONT=&quot] You have made this statement about Christians being Israel, and implying that God has abandoned the Jews several times. I am wondering where you get this. It certainly isn't Biblical. If you think it is, please state the scripture reference(s).

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[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] It is indeed biblical. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35798182&postcount=132[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35796670&postcount=125[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35796857&postcount=127[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35796953&postcount=129[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This one is not mine, but the same subject. [/FONT]
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35811403&postcount=178

[FONT=&quot] a band of fanatics (Hezbollah and Hamas) strapping bombs onto teenage kids and women and sending them out into restaurants

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[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Hezbollah has very rarely committed suicide attacks. Hezbollah had been fighting Israel in Southern Lebanon though conventional warfare and forced Israel to tuck tail and run in 2000. Again in 2006 Hezbollah repelled the Israeli invasion. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] I do not condone suicide attacks, but the honorable defense of Lebanese land by Hezbollah has gained them the support of most Lebanese, especially those who were there during the war. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

who seem to be reasonable enough on the whole, had forced Hezbollah to give up those two Israeli soldiers, it could all have been avoided.

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[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17,634 Lebanese citizens sit in Israeli jail with out trial, lawyer, charge, appeal or justice. Many of them have been in that situation since the Lebanese civil war, 17 years. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers who were illegally on Lebanese land that the Israeli government occupies. There is no reason to give them back in till the war is ended as stated in the Geneva convention. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Personally I think they should be tried for the war crimes of Israel along with any other Israeli soldier that is captured by Lebanese fighters. [/FONT]