Who should be allowed to adopt?

[Brieuse]

Dear Halohope,
Yes there is proof, scientific studies have shown that where a father or mother is missing the child is 75% more likely to underachive at school or be invloved in drugs, alcohol, crime, poverty, unwanted pregancy abortion etc. (Breakdown Britain report this year.
I think its common sense anyway without the figures to support it being common sense.
Furthemore I have quoted the Bible passages so whatever Bible you have it doesnt matter what it says to you as far as i can see... but the danger of ignoring what the Bible says leads to false views, Fred Phelps is no worse, he has missed cruical aspects as well as you.

Where are these studies? Are you sure they're scientific?

 

[HaloHope]

Dear Halohope,
Yes there is proof, scientific studies have shown that where a father or mother is missing the child is 75% more likely to underachive at school or be invloved in drugs, alcohol, crime, poverty, unwanted pregancy abortion etc. (Breakdown Britain report this year.
I think its common sense anyway without the figures to support it being common sense.
Furthemore I have quoted the Bible passages so whatever Bible you have it doesnt matter what it says to you as far as i can see... but the danger of ignoring what the Bible says leads to false views, Fred Phelps is no worse, he has missed cruical aspects as well as you.

Breakdown Britain is about single parent famalies and hetrosexual relationships. Not homosexual couples with children I'm afraid.

I was raised by a single parent family, other than a bit of smoking cannabis in college I havent done any drugs, I havent ever been in trouble with the law, I did well at school, and Im not an alchoholic.
Neither are any people I know from single parent famalies. I realize this is anecdotal evidence but if it truly is 75% more likely (not that I particualrly trust Mr.Duncan Smith) than there should be at least one example I should know of.

And Fred Phelps is "no worse" than me? I don't think I can now take anything you post to be remotely believable after that statement.

 

[naotmaa]

Dear Halohope,
Yes there is proof, scientific studies have shown that where a father or mother is missing the child is 75% more likely to underachive at school or be invloved in drugs, alcohol, crime, poverty, unwanted pregancy abortion etc. (Breakdown Britain report this year.
I think its common sense anyway without the figures to support it being common sense.
Furthemore I have quoted the Bible passages so whatever Bible you have it doesnt matter what it says to you as far as i can see... but the danger of ignoring what the Bible says leads to false views, Fred Phelps is no worse, he has missed cruical aspects as well as you.

If these statistics are true you must take in a few factors like young single mothers and divorced parents. These situations were obviously not planned and might have a negative effect on the child. Now, I have many friends who have divorced parents who turned out just fine But if the parents did not do a good enough job addressing the child's issues during the divorce, there could be negative effects. Single mothers who did not plan to have kids are probably more likely to be more financially unstable. Therefore the child may be left alone more often and be surrounded by negative influences.
Having said all this, gay/lesbian parents who choose to adopt/ use artificial insemination, are most likely to be prepared to have children and take care of their needs.

 

[OllieFranz]

I voted for all of the choices. None of them are, by themselves a good reason to deprive a child of a loving home and force her to grow up in an institution.

That should be the focus: what's best for the child. And a loving family, even if flawed (and there is no family that is not flawed) is better than the alternative. And for most of the children not adopted by gays (or whatever other group on the list) the alternative is not being adopted by a rich WASP couple, but growing up as a ward of the State.

 

[david_x]

Do you have a reason other than your own personal prejudice as to why same sex couples should not adopt?

Statistically speaking.

 

[irateional]

Statistically speaking.

Except that they prove our side.

The mother/father studies show that a child raised by a single parent does worse than a child with two parents. This is because the duality of parents works better to help the child learn and grow and such.

The statistics show children raised in dual parent homosexual families do as well as children raised in dual parent heterosexual families.

 

[PaladinValer]

Anyone who shows the maturity, dedication, financial capability, compassion, love, and other capacities (mental, etc) should have the right to adopt a child or become a foster parent.

 

[MrPirate]

Dear Halohope,
Yes there is proof, scientific studies have shown that where a father or mother is missing the child is 75% more likely to underachive at school or be invloved in drugs, alcohol, crime, poverty, unwanted pregancy abortion etc. (Breakdown Britain report this year.
I think its common sense anyway without the figures to support it being common sense.
Furthemore I have quoted the Bible passages so whatever Bible you have it doesnt matter what it says to you as far as i can see... but the danger of ignoring what the Bible says leads to false views, Fred Phelps is no worse, he has missed cruical aspects as well as you.

Wow…could you actually cite these amazing studies that show causation between an absent father and the horrors you describe?

 

[MrPirate]

Statistically speaking.

So the answer is no. you don’t have any reason beyond your own personal prejudices. thank you for answering that.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear Ohioprof,

Saying that same-sex relationships are not sin is different from saying that any sexual practices are okay.

Yes that is what I was saying, it was Halohope’s logic that implied that.

Interestingly you say ‘Of course adultery is not okay. Of course rape is not okay. Of course sex with children is not okay.’ On what grounds do you make that decisions? Mine are the same as knowing same-sex sex is wrong, God revelation in scripture. What are your criteria?

Expressions of intimacy within a monogamous same-sex relationship are no different from expressions of intimacy within a monogamous opposite-sex marriage.

Well they are for Christians as the word of God says marriage is the faithful union of man and woman,( Gen 2, Matt 19, etc) there is no such thing as a same-sex marriage, same-sex sexual relationships, as with sex outside marriage is not God’s purpose, (1 Corinthians 6, Romans 1, 1 Tim 1)

If and when gay people have the right to marry legally everywhere, our marital relationships and vows will be no different from those of heterosexual marital relationships and vows.

Gay people are free to do what they want, I am referring to the Christian view.

Your argument is flawed.

Well its not my research my friend, it was research and the word of God I cited, though your criticism is a valid consideration of the scientific studies ate least, but not the word of God.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear brieuse, Halohope and

Breakdown Britain is about single parent famalies and hetrosexual relationships. Not homosexual couples with children I'm afraid.

So do homosexual couples have a man and a woman, a mother and a father? I think you missed the point.

(not that I particualrly trust Mr.Duncan Smith) than there should be at least one example I should know of.

But I am not sure he did any of the research either, you seem to be mistrusting him because he presents research you don’t like.

And Fred Phelps is "no worse" than me? I don't think I can now take anything you post to be remotely believable after that statement.

I don’t suppose fred Phelps would take anything you said seriously either, nonetheless Jesus died for him just as he died for you and me. ... but you missed my point, Fred Phelps cleraly ignores bits of scripture, God does not hate anyone if He has sent His only Son to die for them, where Phelps is right and you are wrong is he sees from God's word that same-sex sex is wrong, one of the sins Jesus actually died for

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
Yes that is what I was saying, it was Halohope’s logic that implied that.

Interestingly you say ‘Of course adultery is not okay. Of course rape is not okay. Of course sex with children is not okay.’ On what grounds do you make that decisions? Mine are the same as knowing same-sex sex is wrong, God revelation in scripture. What are your criteria?
Well they are for Christians as the word of God says marriage is the faithful union of man and woman,( Gen 2, Matt 19, etc) there is no such thing as a same-sex marriage, same-sex sexual relationships, as with sex outside marriage is not God’s purpose, (1 Corinthians 6, Romans 1, 1 Tim 1)
Gay people are free to do what they want, I am referring to the Christian view.

Well its not my research my friend, it was research and the word of God I cited, though your criticism is a valid consideration of the scientific studies ate least, but not the word of God.

My main criterion for determining whether a particular action is wrong is whether the action harms someone. Murder obviously does harm. Sex with children does harm to children. Adultery does harm to the spouse and to the family. Rape does harm to the person raped. Same-sex relationships between committed adults do harm to no one.

Since I do not regard the Bible as the word of God or as an instruction manual, the various books of the Bible are for me mostly a way to glean insight into what people in earlier cultures were thinking.

You suggest that what gay people think and do is somehow different from what Christians think and do. But not all Christians agree about same-sex relationships, and there are many gay Christians. There is not one single Christian position, no consensus among Christians about the morality of same-sex relationships. From what I have seen in the United States, more and more Christians are coming to accept same-sex relationships as not sinful, but simply as expressions of the wonderful diversity that God created.

 

[david_x]

So the answer is no. you don’t have any reason beyond your own personal prejudices. thank you for answering that.

I gave my reasons for love of the child. No prejudice. If you want to oppose that fine, more persacution for me.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear ohioprof,
Thanks for your reply.

My main criterion for determining whether a particular action is wrong is whether the action harms someone. Murder obviously does harm. Sex with children does harm to children. Adultery does harm to the spouse and to the family. Rape does harm to the person raped. Same-sex relationships between committed adults do harm to no one.

No adultery doesn’t necessarily do harm to the spouse or family, there are families who couldn’t really care less and couples who both indulge in sex with others for fun. But of course adultery hurts the people who do ot not others, “All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. “ - 1 Corinthians 6:18

Since I do not regard the Bible as the word of God

Ok sorry my apology I was speaking for what Christians believe.

You suggest that what gay people think and do is somehow different from what Christians think and do.

Well some Christians are homosexual in having same sex attraction, but they know God’s purpose is against sex outside marriage and same-sex sex… so your argument doesn’t really work… it judges people rather than the issue which is peoples views and beliefs.

But not all Christians agree about same-sex relationships,

Not all homosexuals do either, but who is right, I would say the ones who follow the word of God and Jesus teaching.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear ohioprof,
Thanks for your reply.
No adultery doesn’t necessarily do harm to the spouse or family, there are families who couldn’t really care less and couples who both indulge in sex with others for fun. But of course adultery hurts the people who do ot not others, “All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. “ - 1 Corinthians 6:18

Ok sorry my apology I was speaking for what Christians believe.

Well some Christians are homosexual in having same sex attraction, but they know God’s purpose is against sex outside marriage and same-sex sex… so your argument doesn’t really work… it judges people rather than the issue which is peoples views and beliefs.

Not all homosexuals do either, but who is right, I would say the ones who follow the word of God and Jesus teaching.

Most gay people agree that same-sex relationships are both moral and desirable for gay people. A few do not, and they are usually folks who try desperately and unsuccessfully to become what they are not. That is not my business; people are free to do as they wish with their lives.

Many Christians believe that same-sex relationships are good and right and honored by God.

You suggest that I am not a Christian because I do not regard the Bible as the word of God. I do consider myself Christian. My understanding of what it means to be a Christian differs from your understanding. There is no one single way of understanding Christianity, and Christians take different positions on the issues of same-sex relationships and same-sex marriage.

 

[david_x]

Most gay people agree that same-sex relationships are both moral and desirable for gay people. A few do not, and they are usually folks who try desperately and unsuccessfully to become what they are not. That is not my business; people are free to do as they wish with their lives.

Many Christians believe that same-sex relationships are good and right and honored by God.

You suggest that I am not a Christian because I do not regard the Bible as the word of God. I do consider myself Christian. My understanding of what it means to be a Christian differs from your understanding. There is no one single way of understanding Christianity, and Christians take different positions on the issues of same-sex relationships and same-sex marriage.

No, i'm afraid that there is only one way.

 

[Ohioprof]

I gave my reasons for love of the child. No prejudice. If you want to oppose that fine, more persacution for me.

Who is persecuting you? It sounds like people are simply disagreeing with you.

I love children. That is why I want our children, the children of gay people, to have the protections of having two legally married parents. I support same-sex marriage because I love children.

 

[Ohioprof]

No, i'm afraid that there is only one way.

Well, obviously we disagree about this. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[david_x]

Well, obviously we disagree about this. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Agreed.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear ohioprof,

Most gay people agree that same-sex relationships are both moral and desirable for gay people.

Most Christians agree that same-sex relationships are not part of God’ purpose and sinful, I don’t see the point of exchanging peoples views, it us surely the reasoning behind the views that we should be debating

You suggest that I am not a Christian because I do not regard the Bible as the word of God.

No I don’t think I have suggested that, but I would say in general a Christian would have to believe in the word of God.