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No, I don't want to change a word of the Bible... I want people to accept that the context of Western industrial urbanised society is different to that of semi nomadic bronze age desert dwelling herders... and that therefore, attempts to overlay their moral and ethical structure onto our society requires more understanding than just saying "well the Bible SEZ!"Dear EnemyPartyII
I agree with that except it doesnt mean the Bible is changeless. If you prospose to change the examples given how much gold are you proposing. What i think you want to do is suggest that the pronoucements against same-sex sex can be changed. I mean Genesis 2, 19, Lev 18 and 20 Judges 19, Matthew 19, Mark 10, 1 Corinthians 6, 1 Timothy 1, Romans 1, Ephesians 5, Hebrews 13, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1. ??
Maybe someone wont believe 1 Corintians 13 and all that stuff about love either.
Maybe thats because you havent got a clue what the Bible is. Firstly the condemnation of same-sex sex wasnt just to God's people in the deser, it was also to God's people amongst the Greek and Roman cultures. Secondly as I keep reminding you believers believe Biblical testimony of Jesus Christ in the NT believe what God has said is the truth. I accept from what you are saying that you dont want to change the Bible, but you also clearly dont believe it.No, I don't want to change a word of the Bible... I want people to accept that the context of Western industrial urbanised society is different to that of semi nomadic bronze age desert dwelling herders... and that therefore, attempts to overlay their moral and ethical structure onto our society requires more understanding than just saying "well the Bible SEZ!"
Sure what God has said is the truth... but what is in the Bible and what God has said are not necesarily the same thing.Dear EnemyPartyII
Maybe thats because you havent got a clue what the Bible is. Firstly the condemnation of same-sex sex wasnt just to God's people in the deser, it was also to God's people amongst the Greek and Roman cultures. Secondly as I keep reminding you believers believe Biblical testimony of Jesus Christ in the NT believe what God has said is the truth. I accept from what you are saying that you dont want to change the Bible, but you also clearly dont believe it.
How do you know?... but what is in the Bible and what God has said are not necesarily the same thing.
The information we have about Jesus does come from the Bible and also from other Gospels that have been discovered and were never included in the Bible, such as the Gospel of Thomas. Scholars have attempted to discern what statements attributed to Jesus in the Bible and in these other Gospels were statements that he actually probably made. I base my understanding of what Jesus said on the work of these scholars.Dear Ohioprof and EnemyPartyII,
I believe what God says in truth and in the Bible.
What makes you think this isnt what God says? apart from you not believing the Bible. In fact let me ask you again as I never seem to get an answer, where does your revelation of Jesus Christ come from apart from the Bible?
Because God is inerrant, the Bible isn't. Therefore, the Bible isn't the word of God.Back at you. How do YOU know?
Ok but you said you don’t believe the Bible is the word of God so in what capacity do you believe the information that comes form the Bible. How do you know which bits to believe and which bits not to believe, apart from our feelings. because without believing all the testimony of Jesus Christ one cant believe in Him for who He says He is.The information we have about Jesus does come from the Bible
which have been discovered? How do you know the Gospel of Thomas wasn’t one of the writings discarded when the cannon of scripture was decided.and also from other Gospels that have been discovered and were never included in the Bible, such as the Gospel of Thomas.
Ah ok then that is cult Christianity.Scholars have attempted to discern what statements attributed to Jesus in the Bible and in these other Gospels were statements that he actually probably made. I base my understanding of what Jesus said on the work of these scholars.
.I do not regard Jesus as a deity, or as any more of a deity than anyone else. I regard Jesus as a wise teacher. What he said is not, in my view, the words of God. They are simply the insights and wise words of a human being.
I answered your question in another thread. Scholars can and do use the Bible as a primary historical source. In doing that, you have to be careful to try to determine what information may be historically accurate and what in the Bible is a story, a piece of fiction, and what is something in between. One way to do this is to compare the accounts in the Bible with accounts from other sources. Another way is to consider the accounts in the Bible in the light of archeological evidence. Another way is to look for internal consistencies or inconsistencies in the Bible itself. I think we do have to treat the Bible as a historical source, with all of the problems and questions and uncertainties that this kind of source raises for scholars.Dear Ohioprof,
Ok but you said you don’t believe the Bible is the word of God so in what capacity do you believe the information that comes form the Bible. How do you know which bits to believe and which bits not to believe, apart from our feelings. because without believing all the testimony of Jesus Christ one cant believe in Him for who He says He is.
which have been discovered? How do you know the Gospel of Thomas wasn’t one of the writings discarded when the cannon of scripture was decided.
Ah ok then that is cult Christianity.
then you aren’t a Christian and should cease calling your views Christian.
I will call myself Christian as I choose, my friend. You don't get to decide what I call myself. That's up to me. If you want to dismiss me as a "cult Christian," then fine. I don't care what you think of my Christianity. Your opinion of my beliefs does not matter. I do care that some Christians continue to use the Bible to try to justify slandering and throwing stones at gay people. Doing that is immoral.Dear Ohioprof,
Ok but you said you don’t believe the Bible is the word of God so in what capacity do you believe the information that comes form the Bible. How do you know which bits to believe and which bits not to believe, apart from our feelings. because without believing all the testimony of Jesus Christ one cant believe in Him for who He says He is.
which have been discovered? How do you know the Gospel of Thomas wasn’t one of the writings discarded when the cannon of scripture was decided.
Ah ok then that is cult Christianity.
then you aren’t a Christian and should cease calling your views Christian.
That means nothing the scholars could be Muslims. Muslims refer to the Bible, but as corrupted. I am talking about Christians, and Christian scholars, Christians being the ones who believe the Bible.Scholars can and do use the Bible as a primary historical source.
No that’s no use at all, many have done that and seen the other sources as false and unreliable, hence that’s why the Bible is as it is.One way to do this is to compare the accounts in the Bible with accounts from other sources.
Fair enough my friend, I will call you ‘not a Christian’ and ‘not gay’ either. My reason is a Christian is someone who believes in the Jesus Christ of the Bible and there is no consensus of scientific evidence to support people being homosexual , certainly not genetically anywayI will call myself Christian as I choose, my friend. You don't get to decide what I call myself. That's up to me.
I've got the love of Jesus love of Jesus down in my heart. Where? Down in my heart. Where? Down in my heart to stay.
And i'm so happy so very happy, I have the love of Jesus in my heart.
uhmmm not to interrupt but that first part is a rule violation here. I understand you're talking here but if it stays like that it could get reported. You might want to find a different way of getting your point across without getting the whole thread shutdown. Just a sugestion.Fair enough my friend, I will call you ‘not a Christian’ and ‘not gay’ either. My reason is a Christian is someone who believes in the Jesus Christ of the Bible and there is no consensus of scientific evidence to support people being homosexual , certainly not genetically anyway
Dear tulc,
had you considered the clause was put there by revisionists so they could get their views justified for this very reason?
So now you have decided to label me not Christian and not gay?Dear Ohioprof,
That means nothing the scholars could be Muslims. Muslims refer to the Bible, but as corrupted. I am talking about Christians, and Christian scholars, Christians being the ones who believe the Bible.
No that’s no use at all, many have done that and seen the other sources as false and unreliable, hence that’s why the Bible is as it is.
Fair enough my friend, I will call you ‘not a Christian’ and ‘not gay’ either. My reason is a Christian is someone who believes in the Jesus Christ of the Bible and there is no consensus of scientific evidence to support people being homosexual , certainly not genetically anyway
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