So that demolishes that argument of yours, and all of them. The only 'fruit' that can be offered in evidence is of no necessary value.
No it does not. I know them by there fruits, and there writings prove who they were. Your belief that we can not know for sure which Apostles were "genuine Christians" does not make any sense. The Apostle Paul claim his authority and his calling from God to lead the Gentiles in all his epistles, so did the other Holy Apostles. Saint Luke records His Conversion and His calling from God to be His Spokesman in Acts of the Apostles.
How do you know that they were holy? Why are your posts full to the brim with aggression and stuff you don't know? Is there even one Catholic/Orthodox here who has the desire for serious debate? Or have they all fled in terror?
Well, simple: From Scriptures. I do not follow "unsaved" people, and the Holy Apostles was called to spread the Gospel and to nourish Christ' Church. Without the Apostle Paul, there will be no Christianity. God used him in a mighty way. The Apostle Paul was not "unsaved". "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead" (Gal 1:1). "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia" (1 Peter 1:1). So we cannot call the Apostle Paul or the Apostle Peter a "Christian"?
To say that one can not know for sure if any of the Apostles were saved or even True Christians is itself "unchristian" and is your personal opinion.
I am still here [a Orthodox] so I am up for a serious debate, but it seems that you are not interested in discussing the
original topic. Why will a Orthodox or a Catholic flee in terror? What "terror" are you talking about?
If you want more Orthodox Christians to discuss any topic you wish to discuss, why don't you go to our Forum then? And my posts are not full with aggression, there are filled with genuine questions and remarks that have been left unanswered and not even one person here have refuted what I said. I did a post directed towards MamaZ, but she left and did not answer my questions or even commented on my post directed towards her. Perhaps you and the others can. So it is not we [Orthodox] who flee in terror, but it seems that the Protestants have.
That is a falsehood of the most preposterous sort. He told the Thessalonians to keep to what they had been told by apostles. He did not say that any Christian was to follow any teaching. It's mind-boggling that anyone can actually propose this notion. How Catholics are allowed to make this crazy argument is beyond belief. Modern 'Protestantism' is a sham for allowing them to get away with it.
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle" (2 Thes 2:15)
According to the Saint Paul, the Early Christians was to follow what the Holy Apostles taught either by "epistles" [Scriptures] or "by word" [those which the Holy Apostles delivered "unwritten"]. What Saint Paul said disproves Solo-Scriptural. There were some things recorded in Scriptures, others were passed down by the Holy Apostles in "unwritten" form.
The Holy Spirit was sent down on the Apostles on Pentecost, and they were given the charisma to serve and lead the Church. This charisma they passed on to their successors, the Bishops, who in turn passed it on to their own successors, even to this present day [2 Tim 2:2]. The Apostles and the Bibles lead the Church decades before any NT Scriptures written down, and more decades before the Church could agree on what belong in "The Holy Bible".
He told the Thessalonians to keep to what they had been told by apostles.
Yes, but not only what was written.
I have yet to see:
1) Either you or any other Protestant refute what I have said on page 12 post #114 [
that was the original topic to which I would like to get back to instead of discussing this ridicules notion that we can not be sure if any of the Apostles were saved to begin with]
2) Either you or any other Protestant give a Solid-Rock Scripture
that prove Solo-Scriptura.
It seems that you and others here do not have a desire for serious debate as everybody here is ignoring my posts and do not want to answer any of my questions. I am all up for a discussion to the original topic, but it is not my fault that you and others do not want to discuss this matter. Oh well.......moving on then
In IC.XC,
Ramon
P.S: If you and others do not want to debate the original topic, fine. I have to respect everybody feelings here. May God Bless you and others here.