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The catholic Church is more than Rome. The word "catholic" hints at universality, fullness and completeness. It is the local expression of the universal Church. By the time of the first ecumenical council, the catholic Church extended from Jerusalem to Rome, Antioch, Britain, Egypt, Jerusalem, India, Greece and Syria.Also when it was declared that Rome would be Christian it was not of Christ but of a political matter.. Read History to find this out..
Actually read more into the History of the CC.. The CC was not even heard of until Constatine declared Rome to be Christian.. But then when he did this he would not give up his idols and mingled them. Thus the RCC was born.. There is not much evidence that those that the CC declare are the ecf even had contact with the Apostles..
This date is pretty telling to me.
I don't have a problem with ecf if they keep to the teachings of the Apostles.
For someone who claims to stick to the teachings of the Apostles you sure are far from it.
For someone who claims to stick to the teachings of the Apostles you sure are far from it.
Their theology was wrong in many areas, there were many different interpretations of the same scriptures and in many cases they had next to NO access to bounce their ideas off of other great theological minds...So what gives? why the heavy leanings for understanding? Essentially the scriptures they used and the ones we use have remained unchanged, less some poor translations. It does not seem plausible to hang ones salvation on an early 3rds or 4th century interpretation of the same scripture we have NOW.
Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?
And it should be.
John the Apostle died around 100 AD and the date is estimated to 110 AD. The usage of the word catholic shows it was commonly understood and so it had to have been in use for some time.
Experts say that Catholic (much like Christian) was a word that came into popular use during the period that the Apsotles were alive (especially John).
This would show that Catholic was used to name and describe the Chrsitian Church even during Apostolic times and much earlier then Constantine.
Their theology was wrong in many areas, there were many different interpretations of the same scriptures and in many cases they had next to NO access to bounce their ideas off of other great theological minds...So what gives? why the heavy leanings for understanding? Essentially the scriptures they used and the ones we use have remained unchanged, less some poor translations. It does not seem plausible to hang ones salvation on an early 3rds or 4th century interpretation of the same scripture we have NOW.
Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?
And it should be.
John the Apostle died around 100 AD and the date is estimated to 110 AD. The usage of the word catholic shows it was commonly understood and so it had to have been in use for some time.
Experts say that Catholic (much like Christian) was a word that came into popular use during the period that the Apsotles were alive (especially John).
This would show that Catholic was used to name and describe the Chrsitian Church even during Apostolic times and much earlier then Constantine.
Their theology was wrong in many areas, there were many different interpretations of the same scriptures and in many cases they had next to NO access to bounce their ideas off of other great theological minds...So what gives? why the heavy leanings for understanding? Essentially the scriptures they used and the ones we use have remained unchanged, less some poor translations. It does not seem plausible to hang ones salvation on an early 3rds or 4th century interpretation of the same scripture we have NOW.
Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?
And it should be.
John the Apostle died around 100 AD and the date is estimated to 110 AD. The usage of the word catholic shows it was commonly understood and so it had to have been in use for some time.
Experts say that Catholic (much like Christian) was a word that came into popular use during the period that the Apsotles were alive (especially John).
This would show that Catholic was used to name and describe the Chrsitian Church even during Apostolic times and much earlier then Constantine.
Pure conjuncture along with all the other datings of when the Apostles died.John the Apostle died around 100 AD and the date is estimated to 110 AD. The usage of the word catholic shows it was commonly understood and so it had to have been in use for some time.
Pure conjuncture along with all the other datings of when the Apostles died.
I am actually wondering if any were around after the destruction of Jerusalem, as no where in the whole NT/NC is that event, mentioned, except "MAYBE" in Revelation. Thoughts?
A couple.
The Christian writers of the second and third centuries testify to us as a tradition universally recognized and doubted by no one that the Apostle and Evangelist John lived in Asia Minor in the last decades of the first century and from Ephesus had guided the Churches of that province. In his "Dialogue with Tryphon" (Chapter 81) St. Justin Martyr refers to "John, one of the Apostles of Christ" as a witness who had lived "with us", that is, at Ephesus. St. Irenæus writes in very many places of the Apostle John and his residence in Asia and expressly writes that he wrote his Gospel at Ephesus (Adv. haer., III, i, 1), and that he had lived there until the reign of Trajan (loc. cit., II, xxii, 5). With Eusebius (Hist. eccl., III, xiii, 1) and others we can estimate to place the Apostle's banishment to Patmos in the reign of the Emperor Domitian (81-96).
According to Tertullian's testimony After Domitian's death the Apostle returned to Ephesus during the reign of Trajan, and at Ephesus he died about A.D. 100 at a great age.
For myself, I put little stock in any of their interpretations of the Scriptures.Aside from this, what the Holy Fathers have to say is more important and authoritative in what some preachers say 2,000 years later.
I would question whether or not you believe that the Holy Spirit is still the teacher. For scripture still is in authority over the church and it is not the church that is in authority over the scripture.Aside from this, what the Holy Fathers have to say is more important and authoritative in what some preachers say 2,000 years later. Most were disciples of the Holy Apostles, and they defended the Apostolic Faith through several Ecumenical Councils. There were many things that the Holy Fathers were in "agreement" [things like Christ, Salvation, the Eucharist being the Body and Blood of Christ, infant baptism , etc] and it is these doctrines that we Orthodox Christians held as authentic doctrines passed along through generations by the Holy Apostles. There is no doubt that many of the Fathers held in personal opinions, but this is besides the point. We need to go back to the faith of the Early Church [1st-8th Centuries] and stop listening what these "preachers" 2,000 years later say. If we compare what the Early Christians taught, we quickly find out that Protestant [that includes "non-denominational" churches] Churches today has strayed too much from the faith of the Early Church and they all follow doctrines and interpretation of Scriptures that first appeared in the 1500s and after. I believe this was a interesting question
I would question whether or not you believe that the Holy Spirit is still the teacher. For scripture still is in authority over the church and it is not the church that is in authority over the scripture.For what is written is inspired of God and not man. Therefore it is also the Holy Spirit that is the teacher and not man. Therefore the ECF are not the provider of the Holy Spirit but God is and the ECF are not the provider of scripture God is.. So now the concern is who will we listen to. Man or God.
Hoping some truth would seep into them.. LOLThe RCC views the Great City in Revelation as old pagan Rome, so what do ya expect?
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