Who of us can Judge

[Zaac]

All of you who wield Scripture as a weapon should take care not to harm your own selves.

yourselves will suffice.

(The whole "plank in the eye" thing.)

Care to explain what you think this means? You keep saying it, but you continue to put it in the context of something Scripture does not say.

 

[Floatingaxe]

All of you who wield Scripture as a weapon should take care not to harm your own selves.

The gospel of Christ is indeed an offense.

2 Peter 2:7-10
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“ The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”


and

“ A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

yourselves will suffice.



Care to explain what you think this means? You keep saying it, but you continue to put it in the context of something Scripture does not say.

Ironic that you use "context" in this sense, but not in points where you claim biblical injunction against homosexuality.

Proof texting is no way to live the life of God.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Ironic that you use "context" in this sense, but not in points where you claim biblical injunction against homosexuality.

Proof texting is no way to live the life of God.

And ignoring the "text" of the Word of God in favour of a reprobate life is the right way to live before God? Living a life apart from God guarantees that He has no influence. You are on your very own, separated from Him.

 

[Zaac]

Ironic that you use "context" in this sense, but not in points where you claim biblical injunction against homosexuality.

Man please. As many times as I have said using the FULL COUNSEL of God's Word in this forum, what did you think I meant?

To be in proper context, whatyou say has got to be in agreement with ALL of God's Word.

You still ain't presented any proof.

And for the record, I haven't claimed Biblical injunction against homosexuality, but against the committing of homosexual acts.

If you want to call yourself gay and are not committing any homosexual acts, I ain't got a thing to say to ya but hello brother.

 

[UberLutheran]

Some conservative, fundamentalist Christians can.

Sometimes they even judge without mercy.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Man please. As many times as I have said using the FULL COUNSEL of God's Word in this forum, what did you think I meant?

To be in proper context, whatyou say has got to be in agreement with ALL of God's Word.

You still ain't presented any proof.

And for the record, I haven't claimed Biblical injunction against homosexuality, but against the committing of homosexual acts.

If you want to call yourself gay and are not committing any homosexual acts, I ain't got a thing to say to ya but hello brother.

Zaac~ I have agreed with you very much on this topic, but, brother, I take issue with your last statement here.

A Christian who allows himself to be labelled "gay" or "homosexual", yet doesn't commit the acts is committing a sin by allowing himself to be identified as a homosexual.

If one is free of it, then one must be totally free of it by avoiding the label. A Christian is known by the One He follows--Jesus. Period. Claim your freedom and get on with life, living in the freedom hard won by Christ.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac~ I have agreed with you very much on this topic, but, brother, I take issue with your last statement here.

A Christian who allows himself to be labelled "gay" or "homosexual", yet doesn't commit the acts is committing a sin by allowing himself to be identified as a homosexual.

If one is free of it, then one must be totally free of it by avoiding the label. A Christian is known by the One He follows--Jesus. Period. Claim your freedom and get on with life, living in the freedom hard won by Christ.

Fair enough floating axe. But let me explain.

Throughout God's Word, unless He specifically says something about an individual, He speaks to the performing of ACTS, not just being.

He speaks to not performing same-sex acts just like he tells the heterosexual not to commit adultery.

Most people can tell you whether or not they have an attraction toward one gender over the other well before they have had sex.

There's much more involved with being straight or gay than who you sleep with. And unless a person is lusting or committing acts which God says not to commit, I can't Biblically find anything that says that God makes it sinful to identify as gay.

Why would it be sinful to call yourself gay just because folks automatically assume you're having sex with the same gender?

There are lots of folks who are attracted to the same sex who identify themselves as gay, but they don't engage in same sex acts.

There are lots of folks who are attracted to the opposite sex who identify themselves as straight, but they don't engage in opposite sex acts.

Now I have looked and looked, but can't find anything in God's Word that comes close to saying that an attraction is wrong. If there is no lust involved, or no prohibited acts taking place, where is the sin?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Some conservative, fundamentalist Christians can.

Sometimes they even judge without mercy.

They're no worse than bible perverting liberals

 

[Floatingaxe]

There's much more involved with being straight or gay than who you sleep with. And unless a person is lusting or committing acts which God says not to commit, I can't Biblically find anything that says that God makes it sinful to identify as gay.

Why would it be sinful to call yourself gay just because folks automatically assume you're having sex with the same gender?

There are lots of folks who are attracted to the same sex who identify themselves as gay, but they don't engage in same sex acts.

There are lots of folks who are attracted to the opposite sex who identify themselves as straight, but they don't engage in opposite sex acts.

Now I have looked and looked, but can't find anything in God's Word that comes close to saying that an attraction is wrong. If there is no lust involved, or no prohibited acts taking place, where is the sin?

If a man goes so far as to eschew the normal basic attraction to the female gender, then he is behaving unnaturally, and most likely committing the sin of lust toward his own gender.

Somewhere there is a breakdown. A normal heterosexual doesn't need to express his identity. It's normal! A man who once was homosexual and has been delivered, never again needs to express his identity, because he is returned to normal state...no longer "gay", but restored.

A duck doesn't go around proclaiming his duckhood.

 

[ReformedChapin]

If a man goes so far as to eschew the normal basic attraction to the female gender, then he is behaving unnaturally, and most likely committing the sin of lust toward his own gender.

Somewhere there is a breakdown. A normal heterosexual doesn't need to express his identity. It's normal! A man who once was homosexual and has been delivered, never again needs to express his identity, because he is returned to normal state...no longer "gay", but restored.

A duck doesn't go around proclaiming his duckhood.

I guess I shouldn't proclaim my newguyness

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Try telling that to the depressed individual who can't get over his attraction FloatingAxe.

He'll probably break down crying.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I guess I shouldn't proclaim my newguyness

 

[IamRedeemed]

I don't recall anyone in here asking for any mercy.
Please point out anyone that has said, "help I know homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God,
I see it with my own two eyes in His word, and I am convicted in my spirit, but I can't help
myself and I need help and prayer!"

Is there any like that in here that I have overlooked?

I haven't seen any. All I see are people preaching false doctrine.
I see people calling the truth a lie and a lie the truth.
I hear them call a blessing what God has said is accursed. I see people here teaching others to adopt apostate thoughts and beliefs and I see people rather than conform to the will and ways of God, create a God in the image they want Him to be.

When I see a call for mercy, I will respond with mercy and compassion. But I will respond with righteous indignation when I see the Word of God profaned, and the cross of Christ made of no effect, when I see testimonies of God's goodness being met with hatred and contempt. When I see a stiff-necked rebellious people publically preaching and teaching the ways of destruction deceiving many, you can rest assured on that!

Some conservative, fundamentalist Christians can.

Sometimes they even judge without mercy.

 

[Zaac]

If a man goes so far as to eschew the normal basic attraction to the female gender, then he is behaving unnaturally, and most likely committing the sin of lust toward his own gender.

But this would be a surmise, not a fact. To make this statement true, we would have to assume that there is something that amplifies lust in same-sex attractions over lust in opposite sex attractions. Biblically has anything that God says given us reason to believe this, or does He treat lust the same?

Somewhere there is a breakdown. A normal heterosexual doesn't need to express his identity. It's normal! A man who once was homosexual and has been delivered, never again needs to express his identity, because he is returned to normal state...no longer "gay", but restored.

There may very well be a breakdown somewhere. And no, there is no need to express an identity, but if someone asked you, you could.

Again, I've looked and if you have some insight into this area, let me know. But I have yet to find anything that points to an attraction absent lust to be sinful.

Can a homosexual man be attracted to a woman and not lust after her? If yes, why can't the same be presumed of the homosexual.

I just can't provide any Biblical prohibition against attraction.

 

[Zaac]

I don't recall anyone in here asking for any mercy.
Please point out anyone that has said, "help I know homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God,
I see it with my own two eyes in His word, and I am convicted in my spirit, but I can't help
myself and I need help and prayer!"

Is there any like that in here that I have overlooked?

I haven't seen any. All I see are people preaching false doctrine.
I see people calling the truth a lie and a lie the truth.
I hear them call a blessing what God has said is accursed. I see people here teaching others to adopt apostate thoughts and beliefs and I see people rather than conform to the will and ways of God, create a God in the image they want Him to be.

When I see a call for mercy, I will respond with mercy and compassion. But I will respond with righteous indignation when I see the Word of God profaned, and the cross of Christ made of no effect, when I see testimonies of God's goodness being met with hatred and contempt. When I see a stiff-necked rebellious people publically preaching and teaching the ways of destruction deceiving many, you can rest assured on that!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Try telling that to the depressed individual who can't get over his attraction FloatingAxe.

He'll probably break down crying.

Yes, you keep influencing him that he cannot overcome it...don't offer him HOPE! That makes him cry.

In Christ we are more than conquerors. We are major overcomers of all enemies. A homosexual can most certainly overcome his debasing attraction. It's a given. Put purity in and get purity out! The Holy Spirit renovates lives! Jesus Christ is our HOPE and our Healer and Restorer! AMEN!!

 

[UberLutheran]

I don't recall anyone in here asking for any mercy.
Please point out anyone that has said, "help I know homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God,
I see it with my own two eyes in His word, and I am convicted in my spirit, but I can't help
myself and I need help and prayer!"

Is there any like that in here that I have overlooked?

I haven't seen any. All I see are people preaching false doctrine.
I see people calling the truth a lie and a lie the truth.
I hear them call a blessing what God has said is accursed. I see people here teaching others to adopt apostate thoughts and beliefs and I see people rather than conform to the will and ways of God, create a God in the image they want Him to be.

When I see a call for mercy, I will respond with mercy and compassion. But I will respond with righteous indignation when I see the Word of God profaned, and the cross of Christ made of no effect, when I see testimonies of God's goodness being met with hatred and contempt. When I see a stiff-necked rebellious people publically preaching and teaching the ways of destruction deceiving many, you can rest assured on that!

Where is the love, IAmRedeemed?

I thought your folks were supposed to be the practitioners of "compassionate conservatism"!

Anyway, thank you for making my point better than I ever possibly could.

 

[Floatingaxe]

But this would be a surmise, not a fact. To make this statement true, we would have to assume that there is something that amplifies lust in same-sex attractions over lust in opposite sex attractions. Biblically has anything that God says given us reason to believe this, or does He treat lust the same?



There may very well be a breakdown somewhere. And no, there is no need to express an identity, but if someone asked you, you could.

Again, I've looked and if you have some insight into this area, let me know. But I have yet to find anything that points to an attraction absent lust to be sinful.

Can a homosexual man be attracted to a woman and not lust after her? If yes, why can't the same be presumed of the homosexual.

I just can't provide any Biblical prohibition against attraction.

Attraction to the same sex is lustful, and is a sin. Period. The fact that it is unnatural needs some very real introspection.

 

[UberLutheran]

Try telling that to the depressed individual who can't get over his attraction FloatingAxe.

He'll probably break down crying.

[sarcasm]

Or perhaps he'll kill himself -- and then there will be one less homosexual in the world!

​

[/sarcasm]