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Who Is Yahweh?

Eileen Jael

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I know what is being taught by many Christian denominations. I also know the LC-MS promotes this name, although I never heard it in the Luth. Schools or Church. Do you know when this name crept into the LC-MS?

It has come to my attention that Roman god JUPITER, in classical Latin, is PRONOUNCED "YAHWEH." In view of this, isn't it blasphemy to call the Almighty, Yahweh? Jews need to fess up on this.
 

Radagast

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It has come to my attention that Roman god JUPITER, in classical Latin, is PRONOUNCED "YAHWEH."

No, it's not, actually. Who told you that?

And the covenant name of God in the OT is indeed written YHWH. The traditional English version of that is "Jehovah," but "YAHWEH" is a more accurate pronunciation.

Many Bibles write "LORD" in all-caps where the Hebrew has YHWH (e.g. Genesis 2:4), for a variety of reasons.
 
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ViaCrucis

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In classical Latin Jupiter is IVPITER. Another form of Jupiter is Jove/Jovis, or IOVIS.

There's really no way to get YHWH from that, or the attempted pronunciation of YHWH, Yahweh.

So whoever said the ancient Romans pronounced IVPITER as "Yahweh" really doesn't know what they're talking about.

The usual consensus is that the Tetragrammaton (the "four letters"), YHWH, is derived from a form of the Hebrew verb ehyeh, meaning "to be". When Moses encounters the burning bush and asks God what he should call Him, God responds, "ehyeh asher ehyeh" or "I AM that I AM". If that is the case then YHWH means something like, "He is" or "He will be" or "The one that is", etc.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Radagast

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Why use Yahweh instead of Jehovah?

Because the name "Jehovah," though traditional, is based on a misunderstanding of how Jews said the name of God.

In fact, Jews wrote YHWH, but said "Adonai" (Lord), and as an indicator of this, the vowels of "Adonai" were written under the YHWH. The name "Jehovah" comes from trying to pronounce that consonant-vowel combination, which doesn't really make sense.

However, nobody is suggesting that we stop using Jehovah in hymns and so forth.

Maybe it is more accurate but then we should call Jesus Yashua.

Not the same thing; the New Testament never calls Jesus "Yashua."
 
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ViaCrucis

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Why use Yahweh instead of Jehovah? Maybe it is more accurate but then we should call Jesus Yashua.

"Jehovah" is criticized because it was a word derived based on a misreading and misunderstanding of the Hebrew texts.

In the Jewish tradition, going back a very long time, it was considered rather inappropriate to speak the Name itself (YHWH) and so when reading the text another word was substituted in its place, Adonai, meaning "lord" or "master". This is ultimately also why the Septuagint, renders "YHWH" using the Greek kurios, also meaning "lord" or "master"; and by extension the New Testament using the Septuagint retains kurios when quoting and referencing the Old Testament.

Jewish scribes from the middle ages introduced to the Hebrew texts pronunciation marks, or vowel marks, due to Hebrew being an abjad and thus lacking characters for vowels (in other words, Hebrew only contains consonants, in writing vowels are implied but not written); these marks are known as niqqud, they are dots and dashes that aid in pronunciation of words. These scribes, the Masortes, in order to emphasize that Adonai was to be read aloud in place of YHWH used the niqqud for Adonai with YHWH.

What this meant was that when Christian scholars started becoming more interested in translating Hebrew texts, they effectively saw the word written as YaHoWaH, the Hebrew character Vav/Waw can have a 'w' or 'v' sound; and the result was the Latin Iahovah. With the introduction of the letter 'J' in the late middle ages to replace consonantal 'i' Iahovah became written as Jahovah/Jehovah.

But the problem still remains, "Jehovah" is based on a fundamental error of reading comprehension among early Western Christian scholars of the middle ages, and only is retained generally because of it having been incorporated into some early translations of the Bible.

Personally, I usually just use what most English Bible translations do, and that is to use "Lord" (or "LORD") in common speech and writing. When quoting the Old Testament I tend to follow the tradition of using "LORD" in all caps for the same reason that I follow the tradition of capitalizing most pronouns in reference to God ("He" rather than "he", "Him" rather than "him") but such is just personal preference.

But if we're talking about the Name itself (note again the capital 'N' I gave it, again, that's just my personal preference) "Jehovah" is just wrong. "Yahweh" is really just an approximation as we really don't know how to pronounce YHWH, but it's certainly better than "Jehovah". Though I caution quite strongly against the Sacred Name Movement and their insistence that God must be called this (or some peculiar variant of their choosing) as that's ultimately legalistic nonsense.

If you want to refer to Jesus as "Yeshua" you are certainly free to do so; though I don't and don't see any good reason to as "Jesus" is a perfectly good transliteration of the Lord's name as it has entered into English from Aramaic through Greek through Latin. "Jehovah" however is just in all senses bad, it's based on a mistake; having said that if one wants to use "Jehovah" they are free to do so, the Almighty isn't ignorant of what men mean by their words. But from a purely academic perspective "Jehovah" is rather unacceptable.

Likewise, from a purely academic perspective, it may be somewhat inappropriate to use "Yeshua" as while "Yeshua" is certainly a Hebrew form of the name of Jesus, Jesus, His mother, and His community didn't speak Hebrew, they spoke Aramaic. And thus approximations have been proposed, as the Aramaic of Jesus is effectively a dead language, only Syriac remains as a living form of Aramaic.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Not the same thing; the New Testament never calls Jesus "Yashua."

That and "Yashua" would be an erroneous rendering even of the Hebrew cognates of Jesus' name as found in the Old Testament.

The long form being Yahoshua (Joshua), while the short form being Yeshua (Jeshua); I don't believe "Yashua" would be considered correct.

Even worse are some I've seen who have insisted it is "Yahshua", as there they have taken Yeshua and inserted a hah where none exists.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Radagast

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That and "Yashua" would be an erroneous rendering even of the Hebrew cognates of Jesus' name as found in the Old Testament.

The long form being Yahoshua (Joshua), while the short form being Yeshua (Jeshua); I don't believe "Yashua" would be considered correct.

I agree with you.

And also, there's a fair bit of guesswork in trying to work out how 1st century Aramaic speakers would have pronounced a Hebrew name, anyway.

Pointless guesswork, because the New Testament doesn't use that name for Jesus.
 
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FredVB

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I have seen that position of the former pronunciation of Jupiter before online, I don't believe it at all, and thanks to ViaCrucis for his explanation of it being another pronunciation, that position that is promoted can be dismissed. In any case belief in Jupiter could possibly have some derivation from earlier knowledge of Yahweh, who was revealed to people over a thousand years earlier.

The name Yahweh revealed for himself was written with the four consonants in the culture's writing that had no vowels written, as was explained here, the pronunciation still was preserved in old Greek writing. "Sacred Namers" are not wrong in using his name, even if the pronunciation is a bit different, but it is nonsense for them to say the saved people of Yahweh God are just those speaking his name. He revealed his name with saying it is to be remembered, it being for all generations, Exodus 3:15. The tradition to have it written every time as "the LORD" is just that, respecting the Jewish traditions that came later on with being pushed by their leaders, and Jesus never gave preference to such traditions, promoting God's word instead, and this tradition was with no biblical basis and contrary to what God said.

In biblical times there was no known person ever named Yashua or Yahshua, there was the name Yeshua, that short for Yehoshua, which is transliterated as Joshua. There is sufficient basis to speak using "Jesus" as the name, as this is based on the Greek form which is the only form of the name for him in the Bible manuscripts which are used for translating, it is not just a tradition without basis from the original writing of the Bible, as using "the LORD" is.
 
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Radagast

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I have seen that position of the former pronunciation of Jupiter before online, I don't believe it at all

For what it's worth, Jovis / Jove would have been pronounced Yohwis / Yohway, with a distinct "o" sound. Not the same at all.
 
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