Who is the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians?

[shturt678s]

IIThess.2:6-8, v.7, "the one holding (it) up" = our Lord.

Old Jack

 

[random person]

There will be growth in the tribulation ... Gods spirit is still at work and it will be poured out in those days

Many will see visions and dream dreams and prophesy and witness the gospel though persecuted... They will not conform to the laws of the false messiah to come.. who will desire judgement upon his rebels against his kingdom

Many will awaken and repent and believe the gospel and continue to treat each other as Jesus laws commanded ... To love one another .. Judge not condemn not...have mercy forgive sins 70x7

Many tribulations saints will be saved after the tribulation by gods spirit

144000 will witness the gospel

Enoch and Elijah will witness the gospel

Angels will fly above and witness the gospel

It will not be a hopeless time ...

144,000 were the first fruits not the last fruits.

144,000 is a symbolic number of the Jewish Christians at the church in Jerusalem saved out of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD because they obeyed the commands of Christ and fled the city into the mountains when the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem.

 

[random person]

I don't think so. The Old Testament believers were not sealed with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit . The tribulation saints, since they are not part of the church will have different requirements .

The tribulation saints will still be saved, but they will not have the spirit of God living inside of them. If you happen to find a scripture passage that you believe states otherwise, please let me know. Thanks!

Tribulation saints = church in Jerusalem AD 70.

Synogogue of Satan = Jewish religious leaders that led the killing of Christians were wholly supported by the Roman Empire (before the falling out that led to the First Jewish-Roman War, 1st Century Jerusalem is the Babylonian harlot, and the Beast is the Roman Empire in the 1st Century). Smyrna had the largest Jewish population in Asia during the 1st Century.

The Neronian Persecution = Lasted approximately 42 months, 1,260 days, or time, times, and half a time. It began in November 64 AD and ended June 8, 68 AD (when Nero committed suicide by stabbing his own throat with a sword).

The Great Tribulation = The First Jewish-Roman War from 66 AD to 73 AD, this was a 7 year war in which 3.5 years into it, in 70 AD, Jerusalem fell and the 2nd Temple leveled with destruction.

 

[dfw69]

144,000 were the first fruits not the last fruits.

144,000 is a symbolic number of the Jewish Christians at the church in Jerusalem saved out of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD because they obeyed the commands of Christ and fled the city into the mountains when the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem.

I disagree .. 144000 are a literal number of a future people (tribes) of Israel that are saved in the last days before Jesus returns .. They will stand up against the final antichrist and preach the gospel

They are firstfruits of Israel saved .. Israel has yet to receive The new covenant and these will be the firstfruits of Israel to do so

 

[random person]

I disagree .. 144000 are a literal number of a future people (tribes) of Israel that are saved in the last days before Jesus returns .. They will stand up against the final antichrist and preach the gospel

They are firstfruits of Israel saved .. Israel has yet to receive The new covenant and these will be the firstfruits of Israel to do so

Didn't the Gospel begin in Jerusalem, wasn't the church of the apostles built upon with Jews, it isn't until half way through the book of Acts that the gospel began to be widely preached to the Gentiles.

FIRST FRUITS IS THE FIRST FRUITS!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

144,000 were the first fruits not the last fruits.

144,000 is a symbolic number of the Jewish Christians at the church in Jerusalem saved out of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD because they obeyed the commands of Christ and fled the city into the mountains when the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem.

According to Josephus, a lot of Jews managed to escape, and Titus even gave them a chance to surrender....

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

At this critical and alarming c onjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:--..............
Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves, and encamped before Jerusalem; but alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord

: "When ye see (he had said to his disciples) the abomination of desolation, spoken or by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place, [11] and Jerusalem surrounded by armies (or camps,) then let those who are in the midst of Jerusalem depart, ......

...............

On the appearance of the Roman army, the factious Jews united, and, rushing furiously out of the city repulsed the tenth legion, which was with difficulty preserved.
This event caused a short suspension of hostilities, and, by opening the gates, gave an opportunity to such as were so disposed to make their escape ; which before this they could not have attempted without interruption, from the suspicion that they wished to revolt to the Romans........

After this, Josephus, in the name of Titus, earnestly exhorted John and his adherents to surrender ; but the insolent rebel returned nothing but reproaches and imprecations, declaring his firm persuasion that Jerusalem, as it was GOD'S own city, could never be taken : thus literally fulfilling the declaration of Micah, that the Jews, in their extremity, notwithstanding their crimes, would presumptuously "lean upon the LORD, and say, 'Is not the LORD among us ? none evil can come upon us." (Micah iii. 11 )

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.............

.

 

[random person]

According to Josephus, a lot of Jews managed to escape, and Titus even gave them a chance to surrender....

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

At this critical and alarming c onjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:--..............
Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves, and encamped before Jerusalem; but alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord ...............

On the appearance of the Roman army, the factious Jews united, and, rushing furiously out of the city repulsed the tenth legion, which was with difficulty preserved.
This event caused a short suspension of hostilities, and, by opening the gates, gave an opportunity to such as were so disposed to make their escape ; which before this they could not have attempted without interruption, from the suspicion that they wished to revolt to the Romans........

After this, Josephus, in the name of Titus, earnestly exhorted John and his adherents to surrender ; but the insolent rebel returned nothing but reproaches and imprecations, declaring his firm persuasion that Jerusalem, as it was GOD'S own city, could never be taken : thus literally fulfilling the declaration of Micah, that the Jews, in their extremity, notwithstanding their crimes, would presumptuously "lean upon the LORD, and say, 'Is not the LORD among us ? none evil can come upon us." (Micah iii. 11 )

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.............

.

 

[dfw69]

Didn't the Gospel begin in Jerusalem, wasn't the church of the apostles built upon with Jews, it isn't until half way through the book of Acts that the gospel began to be widely preached to the Gentiles.

FIRST FRUITS IS THE FIRST FRUITS!

The firstfruits of a particular harvest is what rev means though

These firstfruits are of the 12 tribes of Israel as stated to be gathered by the Holy Spirit

These 144000 will be raptured to Zion in heaven


The rest of Israel will once again flee to the mountains when the idol is placed in the future temple which has never happened .. Not even in 70 ad

A golem is the abomination of desolation


This is a future event to take place

 

[random person]

The firstfruits of a particular harvest is what rev means though

These firstfruits are of the 12 tribes of Israel as stated to be gathered by the Holy Spirit

These 144000 will be raptured to Zion in heaven


The rest of Israel will once again flee to the mountains when the idol is placed in the future temple which has never happened .. Not even in 70 ad

A golem is the abomination of desolation


This is a future event to take place

Please read Luke 21:20,22!

 

[random person]

Luke 21:20

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.



Luke 21:22

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

1. Isaiah 62:1 & Luke 4:18-19

2. Isaiah 61:2

3. Isaiah 63:3-4 & Hebrews 13:11-13 & Revelation 14:20;

4. Lamentations 1:15

 

[random person]

Before I leave today:

1. Isaiah 61:1 & Luke 4:18-19

2. Isaiah 61:2 & Luke 21:22

3. Isaiah 63:3-4 & Hebrews 13:11-13 & Luke 21:22 & Revelation 14:20

4. Lamentations 1:15

 

[dfw69]

Luke 21:20

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.



Luke 21:22

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (Isaiah 62:1 & Luke 4:18-19; Isaiah 61:2; Isaiah 63:3-4 & Hebrews 13:11-13 & Revelation 14:20; Lamentations 1:15)

I see where you are coming from and why you believe what you believe but it does not even compare to the coming events spoken of in rev

70ad was similar but it did not fulfill rev at all ..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Please read Luke 21:20,22!

Which leads me to ask how the Amills view the "Great City" in Revelation.

Matthew 24:15
"Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation, the being declared thru Daniel the prophet having-stood in a holy place (the one-reading let him be minding/understanding)"
[Daniel 11:31/Mark 13:14]

Mark 13:14
"Whenever yet ye may be seeing the Abomination of the desolation the declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood where not it is binding, (the one-reading let him be minding/understanding) then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains"
[Daniel 11:31/Matthew 24:15]

Luke 21:20
"Whenever yet ye may seeing Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, then be knowing that is NIGH the desolating/erhmwsiV <2050> of Her

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading, and the ones hearing, the words of the prophecy and keepings in it having been written, for the time is NIGH/egguV <1451>.

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust upon their heads and cried-out, weeping and mourning, saying "Woe! Woe! the great City, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices.
That to one hour She was desolated/hrhmwqh <2049> (5681) .

.

 

[random person]

I see where you are coming from and why you believe what you believe but it does not even compare to the coming events spoken of in rev

70ad was similar but it did not fulfill rev at all ..

7 Seals, 7 Vials, 7 Trumpets

See Leviticus 26:18,21,24,28!

 

[dfw69]

I just don't understand how intelligent men can read rev and not see how 70ad did not even come close to fulfilling the awesome events yet to come in the last days spoken of in rev

Mind boggling ..

 

[random person]

I just don't understand how intelligent men can read rev and not see how 70ad did not even come close to fulfilling the awesome events yet to come in the last days spoken of in rev

Mind boggling ..

Because you fail to realize a lot of Revelation is taken straight outta the Old Testament.

Genesis 15:11 (fowls driven away, faithful Israel); Deuteronomy 28:26,49 (fowls not driven away, unfaithful Israel); Revelation 19:17-18

 

[dfw69]

Because you fail to realize a lot of Revelation is taken straight outta the Old Testament.

Genesis 15:11 (fowls driven away, faithful Israel); Deuteronomy 28:26,49 (fowls not driven away, unfaithful Israel); Revelation 19:17-18

Well it's no wonder that when rev does take place many will be surprised and shocked .. Because those days will eventually come unaware

Yet the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.


They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?"

When that day comes everyone will know that it is upon them... Rev 6:15-17

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by dfw69 I just don't understand how intelligent men can read rev and not see how 70ad did not even come close to fulfilling the awesome events yet to come in the last days spoken of in rev
Mind boggling ..

Because you fail to realize a lot of Revelation is taken straight outta the Old Testament.

7 Seals, 7 Vials, 7 Trumpets

Did you notice how the fall of Jericho is also similar to the fall of OC Jerusulem in Revelation.
The only diffenence being is, the Preists are shown as Messenges in Revelation. Pretty fascinating!
http://www.christianforums.com/t7588850-6/#post58437533
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

Joshua 6:4
"And seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark.
And the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets.
16 And the seventh time it happened, when the priests blew the trumpets, that Joshua said to the people: "Shout, for the LORD has given you the city!
[Hebrew 11:30/Reve 8:6]

Hebrews 11:30
by Faith the walls of Jericho did fall, having been encompassed for seven days

Revelation 8:6
And the seven Messengers having the seven Trumpets make ready themselves
that they should be trumpeting;

Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year&#8212;also known as the Feast of Trumpets. It&#8217;s mentioned twice in the Old Testament:

"Now which end do I blow into?"

"Like this Pope"




.

 

[shturt678s]

Luke 21:20

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.



Luke 21:22

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

1. Isaiah 62:1 & Luke 4:18-19

2. Isaiah 61:2

3. Isaiah 63:3-4 & Hebrews 13:11-13 & Revelation 14:20;

4. Lamentations 1:15

Then just move fast forward to Lk.21:24 (began 70 A.D.) [fulfilled Jesus' prophecy of 40 years earlier] where the symbolic 3.5 in Daniel and Revelation (42 months) contextually began - ending at Rev.20:9, 10, the future "1" Parousia.

Old Jackster's back

btw the 144,000 are to total Church from Adam forward to the end of time that John was a able to see and hear their number.

 

[dfw69]

Did you notice how the fall of Jericho is also similar to the fall of OC Jerusulem in Revelation.
The only diffenence being is, the Preists are shown as Messenges in Revelation. Pretty fascinating!
http://www.christianforums.com/t7588850-6/#post58437533
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

Joshua 6:4
"And seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark.
And the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets.
16 And the seventh time it happened, when the priests blew the trumpets, that Joshua said to the people: "Shout, for the LORD has given you the city!
[Hebrew 11:30/Reve 8:6]

Hebrews 11:30
by Faith the walls of Jericho did fall, having been encompassed for seven days

Revelation 8:6
And the seven Messengers having the seven Trumpets make ready themselves
that they should be trumpeting;

Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year—also known as the Feast of Trumpets. It’s mentioned twice in the Old Testament:

"Now which end do I blow into?"

.....................

"Like this Pope"




.

Are you saying Jerusalem was taken like Jericho on rosh Hannah ?

That for 7 days the 7 trumpets of rev were blown on that day?