Who is the prophet in Deuteronomy 18:18?

[ALL4J3SUS]

A muslim friend of mine sent me this article about which prophet Deuteronomy 18:18 was speaking of:

Here are some Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad (peace be upon him),
the Prophet

In Deuteronomy 18, Moses stated that God told him: "I will raise up for them a
prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth and
he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my
words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.
(Deuteronomy 18:18-19)

This states 3 things:

1) That he will be like Moses -->If you read the history of the Prophet Muhammed
(p.b.u.h) and Moses they are definitely similar. They were both prophets and
statesmen, both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them; they had
normal births, family lives and their deaths were under normal circumstances,
unlike Jesus. In addition they were considered by their followers as Prophets
not sons of God.

2) That he will come from the brothers of the Israelites (i.e. the Ishmaelites).
After all Isaac and Ishmael were the two sons of Abraham (Genesis 21). Ishmael
became the grandfather of the Arab nation and Isaac became the grandfather of
the Jewish nation. The prophet spoken of was not to come from among the Jews
themselves, but form among their brothers, the Ishmaelites. Also Isaiah 42:1-13
speaks of the servant of God. IN verse 11, the awaited messenger is connected
with the descendants of Kedar. Who is Kedar? According to Genesis 25:13, Kedar
was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammed.

3) That God will put His words into the mouth of the this prophet and he will
declare what God commands him.

“If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I
myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-19). This means that
whoever believes in the Bible must believe in the Prophet.


"Now this was John's testimony, when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and
Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely,
"I am not the Christ." They asked him "Then who are you" Are you the Elijah?" He
said, "I am not". "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, no." (John 1:19-21)


When we look in the Bible with cross references, we will find in the marginal
notes where the word “Prophet” occurs in John 1:21 that these words refer to the
prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18:18. Thus Jesus Christ is not the prophet
mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18.
____________________________________

 

[ALL4J3SUS]

Commentary: Muhammad or Jesus:
The Prophet Like Unto Moses -
John McTernan​

For Islam to be a religion, Muhammad must be a prophet of God. The message of Muhammad as recorded in the Koran is the foundation of Islam. This is seen in the confession to be a Muslim. This is called the Shahadatain. The second part of the Shahadatain follows: “...that Muhammad is His messenger to all human beings till the Day of Judgment.”

By Messenger, the Koran means prophet. According to Islam, he is the final prophet or seal of the prophets: Sura 33:40 “Muhammad ...(he is) the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.”

Islam teaches not only is Muhammad the seal of the prophets but he is the greatest of the prophets. He is equal to or greater than Moses. Islam believes that Muhammad is the special prophet the Bible mentions will be like Moses.

This verse from the Bible follows: Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

The Koran states that Muhammad is the Prophet who will be like unto Moses. Muhammad came with the final message which everyone has to obey:

Sura 46.9 Say: I am not the first of the apostles, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner. (10) Say: Have you considered if it is from Allah, and you disbelieve in it, and a witness from among the children of Israel has borne witness of one like him, so he believed, while you are big with pride; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Sura 3:85 And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

What it Means to be Prophet Like Unto Moses

There are six outstanding characteristics that have to be met. The Bible teaches that Moses is different than all the other Old Testament prophets. To be the prophet like Moses of Deuteronomy 18, these six characteristics have to be met. These requirements follow:

1). The prophet has to be from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The brethren of Deuteronomy 18 are the sons of Jacob. The brethren in the context of Deuteronomy 18:18 are the descendants of the 12 sons of Jacobs Deuteronomy 18:1 The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel... 2 Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.

Deut 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

2). God spoke directly to Moses. All other prophets received their revelation by visions or dreams. Moses’ revelation was directly from the mouth of God.

Numbers 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. (7) My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. (8) With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

3). Moses was in the direct presence of God. He saw the similitude or form of the LORD. Moses glowed from being in direct presence of God’s glory.

Exodus 34:29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. (30) And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.

4). Moses brought in a blood covenant relationship with God. The other prophets built upon this covenant, but no other Old Testament prophet brought in a different covenant.

Exodus 24: 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words. (9) Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: (10) And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

5). Moses did mighty miracles. God used Moses to split the Red Sea.

Exodus 14:21 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. (22) And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

6). Moses prophesied of the future. Moses gave entire chapters of prophecy. His prophecy centered on the people and nation of Israel.

Leviticus 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. (44) And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God. (45) But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

The Test of Muhammad as The Prophet Like unto Moses

Using the six criteria of Moses being a special prophet, let’s test the Muslims claim that Muhammad is the prophet like Moses.

1). Muhammad was not a Jew. Muhammad is automatically eliminated from being the prophet like Moses because he was not a descendant from one of the 12 tribes of Israel. However, Islam claims that the brethren of Deuteronomy 18 are not the children of Israel. Islam claims that the brethren are not Jews, but they are the Arab descendants of Abraham through Ishmael. They claim the brethren means related to the Jews. This relationship to the Jews is the brethren of Deuteronomy 18:18 and not someone from the 12 tribes of Israel. Islam claims this brethren then of Deuteronomy 18:18 would be the descendants of Abraham through his son Ishmael.

The Bible is clear that the brethren are the 12 tribes of Israel. However, lets examine the Muslim claim that the brethren are the descendants from Ishmael, and therefore Muhammad is the Prophet like Moses.

When studying the Bible, there is little said about the descendants of Ishmael. God promises to bless Ishmael with 12 sons, and he will become a great nation. The Bible then lists the 12 sons of Ishmael. After listing these 12 sons, there is no more continuation of Ishmael’s genealogy. It simply ends with the 12 sons. The genealogy of Ishmael has very little significance in the Bible. Jacob’s genealogy is the one which the Bible goes into great detail. The Scriptures about Ishmael’s genealogy follow:

Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Genesis 25:12 Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, bare unto Abraham: (13) And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam, (14) And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, (15) Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah:

1 Chronicles 1:29 These are their generations: The firstborn of Ishmael, Nebaioth; then Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam, (30) Mishma, and Dumah, Massa, Hadad, and Tema, (31) Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah. These are the sons of Ishmael.

The Koran contains no genealogy at all. Islam had no prophets prior to Muhammad like the Bible’s who maintained the Prophet like unto Moses’ genealogy. Islam can make absolutely no connection between Muhammad and Ishmael. There is a 2600 year genealogical gap between Ishmael and Muhammad with no way to connect the two!

The Bible even shows that at the time of Jeremiah, 600 BC, there was a great mixture of people in Arabia. This was 1200 years before Muhammad. It is very possible that Muhammad could be a descendant of the “mingled people” as they are described in the Bible and not Ishamael. The verse to show this follows:

Jeremiah 25:24 And all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mingled people that dwell in the desert,

The context of Deuteronomy 18 are the children of Israel. But even if one was to think it could possibly be the descendants of Ishmael, the Koran offers no proof whatsoever this could be Muhammad. The Koran is void of genealogy and therefore no link can be established between the two. Islam has no prophets that kept the genealogy to show this link. Islam cannot produce the genealogical records prior to Muhammad that were kept by recognized prophets of God so there can be no doubt to the authenticity. There are no such records and there are no such prophets. Prior to Muhammad, Islam has to rely on the Bible for prophets. The Bible’s prophets are silent about Ishmael’s genealogy while they kept the genealogy leading up to the Lord Jesus.

The Koran offers no proof that Muhammad can be the brethren while the Bible establishes a direct genealogical link from Abraham to the Lord Jesus. The Bible offers all the proof and the Koran has nothing. This requirement alone totally eliminates Muhammad as the Prophet like unto Moses.

2). God spoke directly with Moses. Muhammad fails because the Koran shows he received his message from an angel.

Sura 77.5 Then I swear by the angels who bring down the revelation

Sura 2.97 Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel-- for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which is before it and guidance and good news for the believers

3). The Koran never reported that Muhammad was literally in the direct presence of God.

4). Muhammad never brought in a blood covenant with God, but his message went directly against the revealed word of God. Muhammad denied the basis for the New Testament covenant which is the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross.

Sura 4.157 And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa (Jesus) son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so

5). The Koran reports no miracles of Muhammad. The Koran even says that Muhammad was not like Moses.

Sura 28.48 But (now) when the truth has come to them from Us, they say: Why is he not given the like of what was given to Musa? What! did they not disbelieve in what Musa was given before? They say: Two magicians backing up each other; and they say: Surely we are unbelievers in all. (49) Say: Then bring some (other) book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, (that) I may follow it, if you are truthful.

6). Muhammad made no prophecies in the Koran. The Muslims call Sura 30 the Great Prophecy: This Sura is often used as proof Muhammad is a prophet.

Sura 30.2 The Romans are vanquished, (3) In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome, (4) Within a few years. Allah's is the command before and after; and on that day the believers shall rejoice,

Sura 30 is not a valid prophecy: The Romans, who were the Byzantines, were always at war. A near land is not identified. The location to judge the near land is not identified in the Koran. Is it Jerusalem, Mecca, or Medina etc? What is a few years? No date is given for this prophecy so within a few years can be identified. The fulfillment is not recorded in the Koran. It is impossible to verify that Sura 30:2-4 is a valid prophecy.

Muhammad fails the test of prophet in general and specifically he is not the prophet like unto Moses. Therefore his message as written in the Koran is to be totally rejected. He cannot be classified as a prophet because he made no prophecy which could be tested. The Muslim’s claim that Muhammad is the seal of the prophets has no authority as there is no proof in the Koran that
Muhammad was a true prophet of God.

 

[ALL4J3SUS]

continued..

The Lord Jesus Meets the Criteria to be the Prophet Like Unto Moses.

The Bible says that the Lord Jesus is the Prophet like unto Moses.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: (22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. (23) And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

1). The Lord Jesus was from the brethren of Deuteronomy 18. The Lord’s genealogy was special. He was a direct descendant of David and the Kings of Israel; thus, He qualifies to be Israel’s King Messiah, the Savior of the world.

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

The Bible establishes the Lord Jesus is of the brethren by His genealogy. His genealogy can be traced back to Abraham on both his adopted father and his mother, Mary. Both of these genealogies are traced back to Abraham through Judah.

In Deuteronomy 18, the context of the brethren is someone who’s genealogy can be traced to one of Jacob’s 12 sons. Judah was one of the 12 sons, so the Lord Jesus by His genealogy qualifies to be one of the brethren of Deuteronomy 18. He is a direct descendant of one of the 12 tribes of Israel. The verse from Luke which proves this genealogical link follows:

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, (33) Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda, (34) Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham,...

The Bible shows that even in heaven the Lord Jesus is identified as being from the tribe of Judah. In heaven, He did not lose the distinction of being from Judah. This distinction is actually enhanced. Even in eternity, He is identified as being one of the brethren of Deuteronomy 18:18. This verse follows:

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

2). God spoke directly to Moses. God spoke directly through the Lord Jesus.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

3). Moses was in the direct presence of God and glowed from God’s presence. Jesus was the direct presence of God, and He manifested the glory of God!

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, (2) And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

4). Moses brought in a blood covenant relationship with God. The Lord Jesus brought in a better blood covenant with God. The better covenant gives the assurance of eternal life to all that believe.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

5). Moses did mighty miracles. Jesus did mighty miracles. The Lord Jesus raised a man from the dead after he was four days in the grave. The Bible reported only a few of the awesome miracles that the Lord Jesus did. These miracles were a sign of Him being the Son of God.

John 11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days. (43) And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. (44) And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

6). Moses prophesied of the future. Jesus prophesied of the future. Like Moses, the Lord Jesus focused His prophecy on the Jews and their dispersion and restoration. The restoration of Israel and Jerusalem would occur just before His second coming. Just as the Lord prophesied, exactly happened to the Jews. Israel is once again a nation with Jerusalem as its capital.

Luke 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? (23) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land (Israel), and wrath upon this people (Jews). (24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The Lord Jesus not only met the requirements of being the Prophet like unto Moses, but he exceeded them in all points. Moses was the servant of God, but the Lord Jesus was the Son of God; therefore, He was greater than Moses.

Hebrews 3:2 (Christ) Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. (3) For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. (5) And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; (6) But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

The Bible shows that the Lord Jesus is greater than Moses as He is the Son God. God sent His Son into the world to die for our sin. Because of the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross, you can be forgiven of all sin and have assurance of eternal life with God. When you trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior, God makes an eternal blood covenant with you. Please repent of sin and trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior. Eternal life is only through faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. He is the Prophet like unto Moses and those that do not listen to His message, God will require it of them.

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. (10) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. (11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son (12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 1 John 4:9

------

John is available to present a seminar on Islam. He can also provide this commentary in a tract if you contact him.

John McTernan
Branch of David Ministries
PO Box 444
Liverpool, PA 17045
Email: McT911@aol. com
www.branchofdavid.org

 

[JCBeliever]

Peace ALL4J3SUS,

This Prophet is Jesus Christ!
Every word that Jesus spoke was the direct word of God, so we can say God put the words in Jesus's mouth, every words He spoke.

Jesus was a brother to Moses and the Jews of the 12th century BC.
Muhammed was a cousin of Moses.

The similarities between Moses and Muhammed are very superficial and are in comon with millions of other people. They are not as unique or exclusive as the similarities between Jesus and Moses.

Moses and Jesus were Jewish.
Both Moses and Jesus hid in Egypt (as children) during a slaughter of babies.
Moses commanded 12 tribes while Jesus commanded 12 apostles (He chose 12 apostles for the 12 tribes).
God the Father spoke directly to both Moses and Jesus.
Moses and Jesus were both called the meekest of all men at their time.
Both had faces that radiated light.
Both worked miracles that both their followers and unbelievers observed.
Both fasted for forty days.
Both physically controlled water (making it possible to walk through or on it).
Both chemically controlled water (Moses turned water to blood Jesus turned water into wine).
Both Moses and Jesus knew when they would die.
They both died on a hill.
Jesus fed thousands of people with 2 fish and 5 loafs of bread (John 6:10-2) and Moses fed the Isrealites with manna (John 6:31).
Moses was a learned man and Jesus knew the Scripture well.
Moses and Jesus had followers that heard the voice of God
Moses and Jesus had a unique relationship with God.
Moses and Jesus both had to flee for their lives (Jesus was almost stoned)
Both Moses and Jesus were called to bring their people out of bondage
Both Jesus and Moses were disliked by the established authorities.
Moses gave the 10 commandments, Jesus gave the two Great commandments.

 

[Kas]

It actually says somewhere in the book of acts that Jesus is that prophet like unto moses, case closed! I agree that by many of the comparisons made by Moslem missionaries, my grandad could be like unto moses! No clearly it is looking for somnething more particular, than moslem comparisons!

Peace,
Kas.

 

[Heathen Dawn]

Is it the concensus of Judæo-Christians here that only Judæo-Christians can be prophets?

 

[peaceful soul]

Is it the concensus of Judæo-Christians here that only Judæo-Christians can be prophets?

Unless you want to go against the written record and do what most other people do, which is use their opinions and beliefs as substitutes; therefore, rendering them as truth and neglecting any notion against their claims.

 

[peaceful soul]

It actually says somewhere in the book of acts that Jesus is that prophet like unto moses, case closed! I agree that by many of the comparisons made by Moslem missionaries, my grandad could be like unto moses! No clearly it is looking for somnething more particular, than moslem comparisons!

Peace,
Kas.

Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

[Heathen Dawn]

Unless you want to go against the written record and do what most other people do, which is use their opinions and beliefs as substitutes; therefore, rendering them as truth and neglecting any notion against their claims.

An indirect answer which I may presume to take as a “yes”—there are no prophets outside the Jewish people and their Christian spinoffs. Which has been my complaint against Judaism all the way long: it is a religion predicated upon the notion that God has a chosen people, and all other nations can enjoy the crumbs that fall off the table (aka Noahidism). Christianity was kind enough to convert the Jewish message into a universal one, as did Islam a few centuries later.

 

[peaceful soul]

Another note: Bible indicates that Jesus was the head of all prophets. This means that all other prophets would have to lead up to Him. By no means does Mohammad fit into the prophet line. Why? He did everything in contrast to Christ. He is foreign and so is his message. He does not bring any good news, instead, he bring bad news. The bad news being that we must go back under law and once more become slaves to sin. Our morality has to be legislated. God's morality can no longer shine forth through Holy Spirit working in our lives. Man, what a mess!!!

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by Heathen Dawn

An indirect answer which I may presume to take as a ?yes??there are no prophets outside the Jewish people and their Christian spinoffs.

That is because they were God's example. God chose them for reasons that He could fortell. It is easy to play "monday morning quarterback" when the game is already over. It is not a matter that they were any better than you or me. God had to isolate those so that it could be clear what His purpose was and that the outcome could be know without doubt. If you were doing an experiment, would you not make every attempt to control the factors so that your experiment was legit and safegurded? God made a covenant with them only. He said that He would be faithful to them. How does it look for Him to betray them by nullifying the covenant and making one with another poeple. This would by far, prove that God is not trustworthy. God said that He would have an everlasting covenant with Israel.

Which has been my complaint against Judaism all the way long: it is a religion predicated upon the notion that God has a chosen people, and all other nations can enjoy the crumbs that fall off the table (aka Noahidism). Christianity was kind enough to convert the Jewish message into a universal one, as did Islam a few centuries later.

May I ask who are you to tell God how He must conduct His business? and to determine what is proper? It is quite amusing that you are looking at it from a human view. You are putting human reasoning into God's ways as if it has to be your way, and if it does not fit your way, then it must be nullified.

Your issue is with the Jews. That is not what God's doing of how they turned out. God did not give them that attitude. They became very snobby people because they started to disobey God and turn to their own ways. They made a religion out of God's laws. They became so selfrighteous and arrogant despite all of what God had done for them. This is what God was trying to show all of mankind: that we are sinners; and that it is easier to disobey God than to obey. That is why it was fitting to select a group as an example rather than everyone.

 

[Heathen Dawn]

God made a covenant with them only.

A favoritist God, a racist God. Instead of making a universal covenant with all people from the beginning.

May I ask who are you to tell God how He must conduct His business? and to determine what is proper? It is quite amusing that you are looking at it from a human view. You are putting human reasoning into God's ways as if it has to be your way, and if it does not fit your way, then it must be nullified.

It is to be proved it is God doing what is claimed, and not humans claiming God did something. Were I convinced the Bible is truthful, divine writ, I would hold silence; but I view that book as a product of fallible humans. The writers of the Bible took a tribal deity, Yahweh, and promoted Him to the Creator of the universe.

Your issue is with the Jews.

I’m Jewish. One of the reasons I left Orthodox Judaism was its being such a parochial religion. Christianity and Islam at least have a universal message, whereas Judaism is ethnocentric.

They made a religion out of God's laws.

Have you ever tried reading the Old Testament without your Christian bias? There’s no indication Yahweh’s laws were meant to be anything other than a religion.

This is what God was trying to show all of mankind: that we are sinners; and that it is easier to disobey God than to obey. That is why it was fitting to select a group as an example rather than everyone.

You’re writing through Christian viewglasses, and it shows. The Law was not given to the Jews to convict them of their sinfulness, but to bring them closer to God through their works. Judaism is a religion of bread earned by the sweat of the brow; it is only Christianity that perverts it into a religion of beggarhood, of bread given as a free gift, out of shame.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

The bad news being that we must go back under law and once more become slaves to sin.

I agree with the law part but I didn't understand how they are slaves to sin, they believe that the honest and sincere request/prayer to God for forgiveness indee "brings" forgiveness to those sins. Now, I don't agree with that at all knowing the nature of God as revealed in the Scripture. I'd say "once more become slaves to works"

What do you think peaceful soul?

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by Heathen Dawn

A favoritist God, a racist God. Instead of making a universal covenant with all people from the beginning.

Again, how can God be able to show himself if everyone is an example? He had to make it clear as to what His message was. It is easier to do with a few or the entire population? Maybe I'm too simplistic in thought. If your really think about it you too are a racist and a favorist. You deny God His authority and power to do as He pleases. How mighty of you, Heathen Dawn. It is just an observation, so do not take it as offensive.

It is to be proved it is God doing what is claimed, and not humans claiming God did something. Were I convinced the Bible is truthful, divine writ, I would hold silence; but I view that book as a product of fallible humans. The writers of the Bible took a tribal deity, Yahweh, and promoted Him to the Creator of the universe.

Likewise it is to be proved to the contrary by you. You will not likely be convinced as long as your means of believing remain in your own power; for there is no ability for God to reach you on that matter. Humility before God is the only way that your eyes can be opened. Human nature is in objection to God's humility. It shows all over this board and beyond. The Bible does not tell you that you have to believe everything that you read; it tells you to start with believing that you are saved by grace of God through the works of Christ. That starts the operation of God's spirit to indwell within you, whereby it will begin to teach you and to convict you of the things of God. Problem is an overwhelming majority of us do not want that; we prefer the will of the flesh.

I'm Jewish. One of the reasons I left Orthodox Judaism was its being such a parochial religion. Christianity and Islam at least have a universal message, whereas Judaism is ethnocentric.

I already knew that you were Jewish. Your problem is within yourself just as much as it is with Judaism. You can thank your forefarthers for messing things up. God never intended for The Jews to turn out as they did: into religous/cultural worshiping. They fail to trust Jehova, and this is one of the results of abandoning God: being lead by deceit.

Have you ever tried reading the Old Testament without your Christian bias? There?s no indication Yahweh?s laws were meant to be anything other than a religion.

My bias is toward God's word, and it is not so without much experience of God's leading me to understand His message to me and to others. There is a distinct difference between law and religion. Simply put, religion evolves when man starts to attach his ways of keeping law to God's design, thus voiding their intent. Also, the spirit of law is lost. It is very easy to not see that subtle, but huge distinction. It makes the world of difference in God's eyes.

You're writing through Christian viewglasses, and it shows. The Law was not given to the Jews to convict them of their sinfulness, but to bring them closer to God through their works. Judaism is a religion of bread earned by the sweat of the brow; it is only Christianity that perverts it into a religion of beggarhood, of bread given as a free gift, out of shame.

In bringing them closer to God, it clearly showed that all of the laws could not be kept at the same time. Their misses were not ignored. God held them accountable for all of their misses. They would eventually see that they could not completely satisfy God through their futile labor. That continual labor was to drive them to acceptance of God's grace through Christ, their Messiah, as time would pass. Again, it was not Judaism that they were to obey, it was God's laws. The two are not interchangeable as you would like to think. The laws were not named Judaic Laws: they were Mosaic Laws for a reason. Judaism owes itself to religion/cultural aspirations of Judah's defiance of God's will.

 

[peaceful soul]

I agree with the law part but I didn't understand how they are slaves to sin, they believe that the honest and sincere request/prayer to God for forgiveness indee "brings" forgiveness to those sins. Now, I don't agree with that at all knowing the nature of God as revealed in the Scripture. I'd say "once more become slaves to works"

What do you think peaceful soul?

Yes, slave to works was what I meant. Because they have to keep a list of do's and don'ts a as a means to have favor with God. All laws expose mans's frailties. They have no power to save. We would once again be under the guilt of the law. Unfortunately for a muslim, they would not see themselves as such.

I am not sure what you do not agree with, Bushmaster.

 

[rahma]

Yes, slave to works was what I meant. Because they have to keep a list of do's and don'ts a as a means to have favor with God. All laws expose mans's frailties. They have no power to save. We would once again be under the guilt of the law. Unfortunately for a muslim, they would not see themselves as such.

I am not sure what you do not agree with, Bushmaster.

God gave a huge list of laws in the Old Testament and told the Israelites to follow them or face punishment. I don't see how they are slaves to works if they are doing what God asked them to do.

The same goes for muslims. We have a list of laws found in the Qur'an and God says follow them. In both these faiths, God regulates humanity through laws, which are essential to our religious practices.

 

[peaceful soul]

God gave a huge list of laws in the Old Testament and told the Israelites to follow them or face punishment. I don't see how they are slaves to works if they are doing what God asked them to do.

The same goes for muslims. We have a list of laws found in the Qur'an and God says follow them. In both these faiths, God regulates humanity through laws, which are essential to our religious practices.

Yes, they are slaves to works, because they had to follow them out of obedience. Why? If they were without sin, they would be obedient, therefore, excused from them. Jesus was not bound by laws, because He kept them all; so He was free from judgement of God. That is why He could atone for us.

The Mosaic and Levitical laws were not only laws of God. Well before the Israelites, other laws were in place. One great example was the law of faith that was demonstrated through Abraham. Also, the law of the spirit, as pertains to the Holy Spirit. The Mosaic laws were for a specific place and time in God's revelation, and were never meant to sustain man in the big picture. As I have stated somewhere before, the laws were a tool of God to broadcast to mankind how impossible it was to be perfect as God is. All fallen short indicates sin.

Man detests authority;so God instituted His authority to show man how sinful/imperfect He was. His requirements could never be met without His intervention, through grace.

The laws were meant to show God's holiness to us, which is His value system. To use them as a religious tool undermines their purpose. We are saved by faith of Christ (Romans 3:20). No works through religion will preserve us. Not one!!!

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I am not sure what you do not agree with, Bushmaster.

Oh, nothing, there wasn't a disagreement on my part, I was just unsure what you meant "slaves to sin", I thought it must be "slaves to works" but it is clear now. It doesn't make sense to me to be under law and have forgiving grace and go back to law again.

 

[peaceful soul]

Oh, nothing, there wasn't a disagreement on my part, I was just unsure what you meant "slaves to sin", I thought it must be "slaves to works" but it is clear now. It doesn't make sense to me to be under law and have forgiving grace and go back to law again.

Yes, only if Muslims could see the contrast in doctrines. It would seem to me that at least the ones on this board would wake up and wonder to themselves is there more to Bible than what Qu'ran says or something to that effect. Of course, who wants to admit that they are wrong. But, it comes much more easier when Christ is working in your life, I tell ya.

 

[KniteOfIslam]

Peace to all

The similarities between Moses and Muhammed are very superficial and are in comon with millions of other people. They are not as unique or exclusive as the similarities between Jesus and Moses.

I'm gonna use ur rule "Unique or exclusive" to filter ur list first

Moses and Jesus were Jewish.(X) many people were
Both Moses and Jesus hid in Egypt (as children) during a slaughter of babies. (X) many jews did
Moses commanded 12 tribes while Jesus commanded 12 apostles (He chose 12 apostles for the 12 tribes). (X) what ????...r u trying to convince us that 12 tribes = 12 men
God the Father spoke directly to both Moses and Jesus. (X) So did God spoked directly to Mohammad (Pbuh) during the ascending "Al-Mi'raj"
Moses and Jesus were both called the meekest of all men at their time.(X) So was Mohammad the meekest man at his time
Both had faces that radiated light. (X) So did Mohammad have face that radiated light
Both worked miracles that both their followers and unbelievers observed. (X) So did Mohammad
Both fasted for forty days. (X) So did lots of the Jews
Both physically controlled water (making it possible to walk through or on it). (X) So did Mohammad physically controlled water
Jesus fed thousands of people with 2 fish and 5 loafs of bread (John 6:10-2) and Moses fed the Isrealites with manna (John 6:31). (X) So did Mohammad fed many people with small pieces of bread and few butter
Moses was a learned man and Jesus knew the Scripture well. (X) So was a lot of people (Learned and Knew the scripture well)
Moses and Jesus had a unique relationship with God.(X) So Mohammad had a unique relation ship with God
Moses and Jesus both had to flee for their lives (Jesus was almost stoned) (X) Many People had to flee for their lives ofcourse but Also Mohammad Had to flee for his religion and life from Mecca to Medina
Both Moses and Jesus were called to bring their people out of bondage (X) So was Mohammad ordered to bring many of his people out of bondage..Actually to end all kind of Bondage of man to a fellow man
Both Jesus and Moses were disliked by the established authorities.(X) many people were and are...Also Mohammad was disliked by the established authorities in Mecca
Moses gave the 10 commandments, Jesus gave the two Great commandments.(X) Also Mohammad gave lots of commandments

After filtering ur list I guess it has been cut down to about 4 points only.

Now I'll give u about 3 times as many of unique and exclusive similarities :

1) both recieved a revalation from God on a mountain (Moses in Saini, Mohammad in Hera' cave on a mountain near Mecca)

2) both had direct meeting with God during their lives

3) both were reached while fleeing by their enemies and God saved them by a miracle

4) both were ordered to tell their people to slaught a sheep in the feast

5) Both Had promise from Allah to drive out their enemies before them (Moses in Exo 23:28 ) (Mohammad in El-Fat'h "Vistory" chapter 48 )
6) Both reached promised victory by God in their lives (Mohammad in El-Fat'h "Vistory" chapter 48 )

7) Moses was claimed to be aided by fear (Exo 23:28 ), Mohammad was aided by fear for a month ("Sahih El-Bukhari" 7273)

8) Both were ordered to break down the non-beleivers' images (Exo 23:25)

9) Both had to go to a higher place to meet with their God (Moses on a mountain, Mohammad to heaven)

10) Both were promised from their God to help them by sending Angels to help them fight the non-beleivers

11) Both Brought entirely new laws than before

May Allah Be Our Way And Goal