Who is the prophet in Deuteronomy 18:18?

[Heathen Dawn]

Again, how can God be able to show himself if everyone is an example? He had to make it clear as to what His message was. It is easier to do with a few or the entire population?

You don’t seem to understand what the message was. Not surprising, since you view the OT Law through NT glasses. Even the name, “Old Testament”, is a Christian bias phenomenon.

Likewise it is to be proved to the contrary by you. You will not likely be convinced as long as your means of believing remain in your own power; for there is no ability for God to reach you on that matter. Humility before God is the only way that your eyes can be opened. Human nature is in objection to God's humility. It shows all over this board and beyond. The Bible does not tell you that you have to believe everything that you read; it tells you to start with believing that you are saved by grace of God through the works of Christ. That starts the operation of God's spirit to indwell within you, whereby it will begin to teach you and to convict you of the things of God. Problem is an overwhelming majority of us do not want that; we prefer the will of the flesh.

You talk about the Bible. But we don’t even have the same Bible! My Bible starts with Genesis like yours, yes, but it ends with the second book of Chronicles. All the Pauline stuff about the OT Law being conviction of sin is absent from my upbringing and thinking. I may have left Orthodox Judaism, but on Biblical matters I still think like an Orthodox Jew.

I already knew that you were Jewish. Your problem is within yourself just as much as it is with Judaism. You can thank your forefarthers for messing things up. God never intended for The Jews to turn out as they did: into religous/cultural worshiping. They fail to trust Jehova, and this is one of the results of abandoning God: being lead by deceit.

The Jewish people never stopped trusting Jehovah. My forefathers would rather be slashed through their necks than be “completed Jews” by embracing Christianity. They well understood Christianity is not a completion of Judaism but an annullment of it.

In bringing them closer to God, it clearly showed that all of the laws could not be kept at the same time.

Nonsense. Utter Christian nonsense. It is possible to keep all 613 commandments of the OT, and morever, the OT reports of people doing just that and being right with God. The OT speaks of Israelites being righteous by their works. What you Christians are doing is denying the righteous their righteousness.

They would eventually see that they could not completely satisfy God through their futile labor.

More Christian balderdash. It has never dawned upon the Jews, not now, not in OT times, not ever, that satisfaction of God through works was impossible and futile.

That continual labor was to drive them to acceptance of God's grace through Christ, their Messiah, as time would pass.

And shall I now turn this around? A group of people, the first Christians, so wanted to get rid of the burden of the 613 laws, that they devised a system whereby mere faith in a man rids them of the requirement to keep them.

Again, it was not Judaism that they were to obey, it was God's laws. The two are not interchangeable as you would like to think. The laws were not named Judaic Laws: they were Mosaic Laws for a reason. Judaism owes itself to religion/cultural aspirations of Judah's defiance of God's will.

The laws of the OT were instituted to be kept by the Jews for eternity. Christianity ranks together with Shabbetaism and Frankism in its declaration that the laws are no longer binding. Maimonides makes that point succintly, in one of his 13 articles of faith, saying: “I believe this Law will never be replaced, and there will never be another Law from HaShem blessed He be.” Christianity is just one of so many religions that Jews have strayed from; it is not the Jew’s home or completion, but a strange pasture.

 

[peaceful soul]

Peace to all

[/b]
I'm gonna use ur rule "Unique or exclusive" to filter ur list first

Moses and Jesus were Jewish.(X) many people were
Both Moses and Jesus hid in Egypt (as children) during a slaughter of babies. (X) many jews did
Moses commanded 12 tribes while Jesus commanded 12 apostles (He chose 12 apostles for the 12 tribes). (X) what ????...r u trying to convince us that 12 tribes = 12 men
God the Father spoke directly to both Moses and Jesus. (X) So did God spoked directly to Mohammad (Pbuh) during the ascending "Al-Mi'raj"
Moses and Jesus were both called the meekest of all men at their time.(X) So was Mohammad the meekest man at his time
Both had faces that radiated light. (X) So did Mohammad have face that radiated light
Both worked miracles that both their followers and unbelievers observed. (X) So did Mohammad
Both fasted for forty days. (X) So did lots of the Jews
Both physically controlled water (making it possible to walk through or on it). (X) So did Mohammad physically controlled water
Jesus fed thousands of people with 2 fish and 5 loafs of bread (John 6:10-2) and Moses fed the Isrealites with manna (John 6:31). (X) So did Mohammad fed many people with small pieces of bread and few butter
Moses was a learned man and Jesus knew the Scripture well. (X) So was a lot of people (Learned and Knew the scripture well)
Moses and Jesus had a unique relationship with God.(X) So Mohammad had a unique relation ship with God
Moses and Jesus both had to flee for their lives (Jesus was almost stoned) (X) Many People had to flee for their lives ofcourse but Also Mohammad Had to flee for his religion and life from Mecca to Medina
Both Moses and Jesus were called to bring their people out of bondage (X) So was Mohammad ordered to bring many of his people out of bondage..Actually to end all kind of Bondage of man to a fellow man
Both Jesus and Moses were disliked by the established authorities.(X) many people were and are...Also Mohammad was disliked by the established authorities in Mecca
Moses gave the 10 commandments, Jesus gave the two Great commandments.(X) Also Mohammad gave lots of commandments

After filtering ur list I guess it has been cut down to about 4 points only.

Now I'll give u about 3 times as many of unique and exclusive similarities :

1) both recieved a revalation from God on a mountain (Moses in Saini, Mohammad in Hera' cave on a mountain near Mecca)

2) both had direct meeting with God during their lives

3) both were reached while fleeing by their enemies and God saved them by a miracle

4) both were ordered to tell their people to slaught a sheep in the feast

5) Both Had promise from Allah to drive out their enemies before them (Moses in Exo 23:28 ) (Mohammad in El-Fat'h "Vistory" chapter 48 )
6) Both reached promised victory by God in their lives (Mohammad in El-Fat'h "Vistory" chapter 48 )

7) Moses was claimed to be aided by fear (Exo 23:28 ), Mohammad was aided by fear for a month ("Sahih El-Bukhari" 7273)

8) Both were ordered to break down the non-beleivers' images (Exo 23:25)

9) Both had to go to a higher place to meet with their God (Moses on a mountain, Mohammad to heaven)

10) Both were promised from their God to help them by sending Angels to help them fight the non-beleivers

11) Both Brought entirely new laws than before

May Allah Be Our Way And Goal
[/font][/b]

I do not think that anything will penetrate your head except that it supports Mohammad. Let's say Mohammad is referred to in this passage. Now what? Do you even see the ramifications of what you are doing? The answer is NO!! You have just declared God as a liar to those He made His covenant with. He made promises that He evidently could not keep. Do you see that this also affects the Qu'ran if the same God authored both books? It puts both Christians and Muslims in a dilemna. It is not so simple as you would like to think. You just can not insert Mohammad and presto! point proven.

If God did this, He is not to be trusted by any of us. Do not you agree? I am sure that you have some other take on it. God said that His word would not go void and would be preserved. Until you can show exactly where the Bible is in error and how it happened, you have no case to stand on. You can believe anything you want but that does not make it true. You need facts to support your claim: not mere assertions that you are praying to be true.

BTW your comparison fails because you keep switching from general to specific to fit your agenda. If you are going to compare, you must be specific at each point. Saying a lot of people did something is defeating the comparison of the two people you are to be comparing.

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by Heathen Dawn

You don?t seem to understand what the message was.

OK. Explain it to me so that I get it.

Not surprising, since you view the OT Law through NT glasses. Even the name, ?Old Testament?, is a Christian bias phenomenon.

I have read parts of both OT and NT and have analyzed them in context. Who really cares about the nomenclature of OT? It is the written text that counts. If there is any obvious bias, it is comming from you, Heathen Dawn. I hope that you do not think that Jews have a monopoly in understanding Tanach, Talmud, etc. I have got news for you.

You talk about the Bible. But we don?t even have the same Bible! My Bible starts with Genesis like yours, yes, but it ends with the second book of Chronicles.

I am not responsible for what you were not educated on. It does not make it untrue because your forefathers do not teach it to you or believe it themselves. Or perhaps they are still in denial of their rejection of Yeshua and their Messiah.

All the Pauline stuff about the OT Law being conviction of sin is absent from my upbringing and thinking. I may have left Orthodox Judaism, but on Biblical matters I still think like an Orthodox Jew.

Part of the problem with Orthodox Judaism: there is no spirit of God in you because of your rejection of Yeshua, therefore Messiah. Right now, you are in the wilderness just as in OT times. Your religious and cultural traditions have made void the word of God. Your incessant keeping of religious and cultural norms have blinded you. Thank God, a few of you are waking up as I can witness on this forum.

Sorry, but it is not my fault that your people rebelled against Yeshua over and over. I can see what they did and learn from it. The Mosaic and Levitical laws were a progression of things to come. It was by no means the end, unless you think that the Jews were the only people to be saved on this planet. Before God made promises to Israel, He also made promises to others. The promises and covenants before are not anulled by His covenant with Israel.

The Jewish people never stopped trusting Jehovah. My forefathers would rather be slashed through their necks than be ?completed Jews? by embracing Christianity. They well understood Christianity is not a completion of Judaism but an annullment of it.

That sounds to me like spiritual pride, which Christ taught was one of the hardest sins to break. Jews did stop trusting Jehova. How do you explain their wandering over the wilderness? their rejection of Messiah? and making a religion out of Mosaic laws? I will throw a few Paulinic verses to you as well.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

These verse are referring, in part, to Jews. They have been cut off until they repent, which will come as part of future prophesy. Presently, only the Jews that accept Christ as their Messiah are true believers. All of the rest are happy with their religon and culture. I can see and understand that very well.

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by Heathen Dawn

Nonsense. Utter Christian nonsense. It is possible to keep all 613 commandments of the OT, and morever, the OT reports of people doing just that and being right with God. The OT speaks of Israelites being righteous by their works. What you Christians are doing is denying the righteous their righteousness.

You have to be kidding me! You can not be for real, Heathen Dawn. No one can keep them all and at the same time. Did not Yeshua say that this is His measure of what His holiness is about? If what you say is true, what was reason for the Atonement? It was God's grace and mercy that pardoned them: not their own works. It was the faithfulnes to try to keep the laws - though God knew it was impossible - that justified them. It was the spirit of their intent that God looked upon. It was when the Jews took their eyes off of their intent and onto themselves that caused them to become selfrighteous and religious. They started to equate their own performance for God's. That is why Jesus explained to them that it is the thoughts in your heart that also count in keeping the law.

Are you trying to tell me that the law of faith, which Abraham was bounded to and was long before Mosaic covenant, was based upon His works? He was justified (made just like) before God based upon His obedience. His works were in direct response to the call of God. It was God who justified Abraham's actions: not Abraham. What the Jews started doing was justifying Mosaic laws through their own filter; thus the religiosity bore fruit. Even I can see that, Heathen Dawn. Most present day Jews are religious and only can see as far as Torah and Talmud. They have no spiritual mind to see anythng but laws and works.

More Christian balderdash. It has never dawned upon the Jews, not now, not in OT times, not ever, that satisfaction of God through works was impossible and futile.

Here is a classic example of what spirtual blindness will do to you. I do not mean you in particular, Heathen Dawn, but it reflects upon your people. It is sad, but true.

And shall I now turn this around? A group of people, the first Christians, so wanted to get rid of the burden of the 613 laws, that they devised a system whereby mere faith in a man rids them of the requirement to keep them.

That is highly speculative and can not be proven. You are assuming that any laws that God had set forth before were not also in effect. I did point out to you the law of faith, which is the basis of Christianity, has always been a part of God's ways.

You forgot that the some of the 1st Christians were from your people, and they bore the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Must we forget Pentecost which is part of the fulfilment of Jesus's promise to His deciples and to all of the believers? I guess that was just a coincidence or from another spiritual source than Yeshua.

The laws of the OT were instituted to be kept by the Jews for eternity. Christianity ranks together with Shabbetaism and Frankism in its declaration that the laws are no longer binding.

The laws are still binding, but the price is steep if you intend to live by them. The price of not keeping all of God's laws is death: eternally and physically; so I do not see you being as holy as Yeshua as He is only perfect.

Maimonides makes that point succintly, in one of his 13 articles of faith, saying: ?I believe this Law will never be replaced, and there will never be another Law from HaShem blessed He be.? Christianity is just one of so many religions that Jews have strayed from; it is not the Jew?s home or completion, but a strange pasture.

You said the magic word, "religion" which is antithesis of Christ, therefore, Christianity. The Jews just did not understand the larger picture. They are trying to deny God His promise through the seed of Abraham to bless all of mankind. That can not happen if the Jews think that all prophesy and blessings stops with them. It was only meant to go through them.

 

[JCBeliever]

Hello KnifeOfIslam!

Moses and Jesus were Jewish.(X) many people were

Understand that the Prophet is a brother of Moses, that is stated.
Jesus and Moses were both Jews, they were brothers.

Both Moses and Jesus hid in Egypt (as children) during a slaughter of babies. (X) many jews did

This is very exclsive and unique similarity. Much much less people have this in common than what Muhammed and Moses have in common. LIKENESS my friend.

Moses commanded 12 tribes while Jesus commanded 12 apostles (He chose 12 apostles for the 12 tribes). (X) what ????...r u trying to convince us that 12 tribes = 12 men

HAh! You cannot say anything here!

God the Father spoke directly to both Moses and Jesus. (X) So did God spoked directly to Mohammad (Pbuh) during the ascending "Al-Mi'raj"

The "Miraj" was fabricated from some apocryphal writings about the Apostles are taken into heaven and see God and stuff.

Both had faces that radiated light. (X) So did Mohammad have face that radiated light

Is that states in the Quran? It's stated in the Bible that Moses' and Jesus's faces were radiant with light. Was Muhammed's people afraid to look at him because his face was so bright?

Both fasted for forty days. (X) So did lots of the Jews

Name one. Spare us your conjecture.

Both physically controlled water (making it possible to walk through or on it). (X) So did Mohammad physically controlled water

How about chemically altering water?

Moses was a learned man and Jesus knew the Scripture well. (X) So was a lot of people (Learned and Knew the scripture well)

Not as well as these two.
Muhammed was uneducated BTW.

Moses and Jesus had a unique relationship with God.(X) So Mohammad had a unique relation ship with God

Not if he's a false prophet.

Both Moses and Jesus were called to bring their people out of bondage (X) So was Mohammad ordered to bring many of his people out of bondage..Actually to end all kind of Bondage of man to a fellow man

Actually Muhammd brought many people into the bondage of Islam.

Both Jesus and Moses were disliked by the established authorities.(X) many people were and are...Also Mohammad was disliked by the established authorities in Mecca

But Jesus and Moses didn't conquer the established authorities that sought to kill them.

Moses gave the 10 commandments, Jesus gave the two Great commandments.(X) Also Mohammad gave lots of commandments

Well, which ones did God Himself give him?

1) both recieved a revalation from God on a mountain (Moses in Saini, Mohammad in Hera' cave on a mountain near Mecca)

Isa. 45:19 "I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth; I did not say to the seed of Jacob, `Seek Me in vain'; I, the LORD, speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. "

God promised He wouldn't speak secretly in some dark cave of a mountain to an alien people. His covenant with Israel was not in vain. It was to be fulfilled through Christ, not abandonded for some pagan in a dark cave.

2) both had direct meeting with God during their lives

Same with Jesus and all of the Prophets.

3) both were reached while fleeing by their enemies and God saved them by a miracle

Same with Jesus, King David, and alot of the Judges.

4) both were ordered to tell their people to slaught a sheep in the feast

Lots of people slaughter sheep.

5) Both Had promise from Allah to drive out their enemies before them (Moses in Exo 23:28 ) (Mohammad in El-Fat'h "Vistory" chapter 48 )

Most of the Judges and Kings also have promises like this from God.

7) Moses was claimed to be aided by fear (Exo 23:28 ), Mohammad was aided by fear for a month ("Sahih El-Bukhari" 7273)

Again, same with alot of the early Israelite armies of the Judges and Kings. God aided them by giving the enemy plagues and stuff.

8) Both were ordered to break down the non-beleivers' images (Exo 23:25)

But Muhammed DIDN'T! He didn't tear down the Kaabah, a pagan shrine, or the unclean sacred stone of the pagans. God told Moses he hated sacred stones and wanted them torn down, and the Israelites should never build him any.

9) Both had to go to a higher place to meet with their God (Moses on a mountain, Mohammad to heaven)

Jesus ascended to Heaven and sat next to God.

In a Persian apocryphal writing a Magian priest, Arda Viraf, is taken to heaven where he meets God. Clearly the story of Muhammed going to heaven is a FABRICATED MYTH.

11) Both Brought entirely new laws than before

Same with Christ. Loving our enemies wasn't a Torah Law.

Yeah that was a hot list, too easy to butcher though.
Mine is still good to go.
CYa

 

[traveller]

i am confused! really confused! How can moses be like jesus if jesus was God in the form of a man, yet moses was a prophet who was fully human and mortal?? hmmm curious

How was muhammad like moses?
Both were born normally, both were prophets, both came to make new law, both had mass followings and both died regular deaths. Jesus on the the other hand, was a jew like moses, but he was born of a virgin, he never made any new laws, the jews rejected him.

 

[JCBeliever]

Peace traveller,

i am confused! really confused! How can moses be like jesus if jesus was God in the form of a man, yet moses was a prophet who was fully human and mortal?? hmmm curious

How was muhammad like moses?
Both were born normally, both were prophets, both came to make new law, both had mass followings and both died regular deaths. Jesus on the the other hand, was a jew like moses, but he was born of a virgin, he never made any new laws, the jews rejected him.

We compare the man Jesus with the man Moses, so Jesus being God and the virgin birth aren't counted in this.
It's worth noting that every words that Jesus spoke came directly from God. God literally put the words in Jesus's mouth. SO it's safe to say that Deut. 18 was indeed talking about Jesus. Not every word Muhammed in his life spoke (if any) was from God.
This and considering Jesus is truly a brother of Moses, and they have unique similarities Jesus is truly the Prophet spoken of in Deut 18.
It's also logical because the Messiah IS a prophet,the greatest prophet. No prophet can supercede the Messiah. He is the one the prophets all speak of.

 

[KniteOfIslam]

As-salamu 'ala man ettab'al Huda
(Peace upon he who follows the true guidance)

We compare the man Jesus with the man Moses, so Jesus being God and the virgin birth aren't counted in this.

Sorry my friend, If we compare Moses to Jesus every thing is counted, As (According to u) Jesus had both Human and Divine Nature, But Moses had only Human Nature...


Now let's consider ur reply:

We'll discard the replys as Mohammad is a false prophet, This is not a reply the least I can say that it is just an accusation.....I can say that Jesus is no God and it all stops here....No dialogue...

Now with the real replys:

Point 2 - Same with Jesus and all of the Prophets.
Point 3 - Same with Jesus, King David, and alot of the Judges
Point 5 - Most of the Judges and Kings also have promises like this from God
Point 7 - Again, same with alot of the early Israelite armies of the Judges and Kings. God aided them by giving the enemy plagues and stuff
Point 9 - Jesus ascended to Heaven and sat next to God.
Point 11 - Same with Christ. Loving our enemies wasn't a Torah Law

Now let's see.....u produced new candidates to the prophecy...BRAVO

Jesus (Pbuh)
King David (Pbuh)
Judges

Now we'll have to discard King David (Pbuh) as the prophecy is fortelling something in the future not in the past...

Now U'll have to answer a question to help us go on...
In ur wide knowledge...Which of the Judges u consider fulfilling points 3, 5 and 7.....
Prove it please

Ur Turn
============================================

But Muhammed DIDN'T! He didn't tear down the Kaabah, a pagan shrine, or the unclean sacred stone of the pagans. God told Moses he hated sacred stones and wanted them torn down, and the Israelites should never build him any.

Sorry my friend...Neither Ka'ba nor Black Rock had ever been worshipped...not before Mohammad not In Islam...
And to make it more closer to ur mind ... If someone's father died and he kept a souvenir from him... and he kept looking at his picture all the time...kiss it...even put it in a necklace around his neck and can't stand anyone take it away from him...
Is he worshipping this picture...this necklace...
No...ofcourse not...he holds it dear as it is from a dear person who left for good..for a hopefully better place
That's exactly what we do...we hold it dear cuase it reminds us of a very dear person and prophet....Ibrahim (Abraham) (Pbuh)...father of all prophets...the one Allah told us in the quran that he's the one who named us Muslims..(Nobel Quran 22:78)

I hope I made it clear

Awaiting ur next post

Take care
Peace to all

May Allah Be Our Way and Goal

 

[JCBeliever]

Peace KniteofIslam,

Sorry my friend, If we compare Moses to Jesus every thing is counted, As (According to u) Jesus had both Human and Divine Nature, But Moses had only Human Nature...

Again, we compare the MAN Jesus to the MAN Moses.
What doesn't register? Jesus was a man.

Point 2 - Same with Jesus and all of the Prophets.
Point 3 - Same with Jesus, King David, and alot of the Judges
Point 5 - Most of the Judges and Kings also have promises like this from God
Point 7 - Again, same with alot of the early Israelite armies of the Judges and Kings. God aided them by giving the enemy plagues and stuff
Point 9 - Jesus ascended to Heaven and sat next to God.
Point 11 - Same with Christ. Loving our enemies wasn't a Torah Law

Because alot of these were in common with Jesus too, so He gets those points.
The others are not something God reserves for special people, but promises and aide that all of His Prophets and most Kings recieve.
Try harder.

Sorry my friend...Neither Ka'ba nor Black Rock had ever been worshipped...not before Mohammad not In Islam...
And to make it more closer to ur mind ... If someone's father died and he kept a souvenir from him... and he kept looking at his picture all the time...kiss it...even put it in a necklace around his neck and can't stand anyone take it away from him...
Is he worshipping this picture...this necklace...
No...ofcourse not...he holds it dear as it is from a dear person who left for good..for a hopefully better place
That's exactly what we do...we hold it dear cuase it reminds us of a very dear person and prophet....Ibrahim (Abraham) (Pbuh)...father of all prophets...the one Allah told us in the quran that he's the one who named us Muslims..(Nobel Quran 22:78)

Did I say those things were worshipped? I never said that.
God told Moses and the Prophets many many times throughout the Bible that He hates sacred stones. He'd of wanted Muhammed to have destroyed that.
He'd of wanted the Kaabah destroyed, it was paganized and was recognized as a symbol of the old pagan religions. Doesn't matter if Abraham built it long ago or not, it would still be so unclean it would need to be destroyed and rebuilt. Like the Hagia Sophia couldn't be a church again, it has been paganized by Islam for too long.
But I don't see how Abraham and Ishmael could have built the Kaabah, because Ishmael NEVER even lived near Arabia!!! He lived in the Sinai near Paran I think. Eventually his descendants migrated into Arabia.

There's still much to my post you never responded too.

Did muhammed chemically alter water like Moses and Jesus?
No one human has done such a thing but those two.

 

[KniteOfIslam]

Point 2 - Same with Jesus and all of the Prophets.
Point 3 - Same with Jesus, King David, and alot of the Judges
Point 5 - Most of the Judges and Kings also have promises like this from God
Point 7 - Again, same with alot of the early Israelite armies of the Judges and Kings. God aided them by giving the enemy plagues and stuff
Point 9 - Jesus ascended to Heaven and sat next to God.
Point 11 - Same with Christ. Loving our enemies wasn't a Torah Law

Because alot of these were in common with Jesus too, so He gets those points.
The others are not something God reserves for special people, but promises and aide that all of His Prophets and most Kings recieve.
Try harder

Sorry my friend..
U told me at point 3, 5 and 7 that Judges having the same similarities with Moses...
Only at point 3 u mentioned Jesus...I think u didin't point to this by "A LOT"
Are u surrendering points 5 and 7 to me.....Thank u very much...

But Also .... can u please enrich our knowledge with the Judges names and proof u mentioned at points 3, 5 and 7.... Or u were just fooling around here ...
Just the names and proofs if u can....
unless u consider this humble request is too much for u

Awaiting ur reply..plzzzzzzzz
=========================================

Did I say those things were worshipped? I never said that.

Thanks for ur confission
We don't worship them...
No one did...

May Allah Be Our Way And Goal

 

[crystalpc]

NO one cedes anything here this was not muhammed, and never was muhammed, and never will be muhammed. Peter said it was Jesus. Paul said it was Jesus, the Holy Spirit says it was Jesus. Jesus says it was him.

 

[JCBeliever]

Peace KniteofIslam,

Sorry my friend..
U told me at point 3, 5 and 7 that Judges having the same similarities with Moses...
Only at point 3 u mentioned Jesus...I think u didin't point to this by "A LOT"
Are u surrendering points 5 and 7 to me.....Thank u very much...

But Also .... can u please enrich our knowledge with the Judges names and proof u mentioned at points 3, 5 and 7.... Or u were just fooling around here ...
Just the names and proofs if u can....
unless u consider this humble request is too much for u

Awaiting ur reply..plzzzzzzzz

Man, I wouldn't fool you.
5 and 7 are things that God did with many Kings and Judges.

Joshua 10:7-11
7 So Joshua marched up from Gilgal with his entire army, including all the best fighting men. 8 The LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid of them; I have given them into your hand. Not one of them will be able to withstand you."
9 After an all-night march from Gilgal, Joshua took them by surprise. 10 The LORD threw them into confusion before Israel, who defeated them in a great victory at Gibeon. Israel pursued them along the road going up to Beth Horon and cut them down all the way to Azekah and Makkedah. 11 As they fled before Israel on the road down from Beth Horon to Azekah, the LORD hurled large hailstones down on them from the sky, and more of them died from the hailstones than were killed by the swords of the Israelites.

Here God gives victory to Jishua before the battle and raisn fear on the enemy. I'd say this is real fear since over half of the enemy army was destroyed by giant hail!
There are many examples of this in Joshua and Judges.

I Samuel 30:7-8
7 Then David said to Abiathar the priest, the son of Ahimelech, "Bring me the ephod." Abiathar brought it to him, 8 and David inquired of the LORD , "Shall I pursue this raiding party? Will I overtake them?"
"Pursue them," he answered. "You will certainly overtake them and succeed in the rescue."

Thanks for ur confission
We don't worship them...
No one did...

Didn't the pagans used to worship the Black Stone?

I'll ask this a third time: did Muhammed chemically alter water?
Moses made the waters turn to red blood and Jesus made water turn into red wine.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I'll ask this a third time: did Muhammed chemically alter water?

He made water run from his fingers so that people could drink, would that be OK?

 

[traveller]

Again, we compare the MAN Jesus to the MAN Moses.
What doesn't register? Jesus was a man.

with all due respect, its stuff like this which really really makes me question christianity! Man, man and God, god before and god after death - but at the same time man...too confusing for me!
but i really do believe that jesus cannot be compared to Moses...why? one Christians claim he was not a prophet, he was God on earth - Man and God at the same time, but not a prophet as Moses was....i dont think any christian can deny wat i have just said?

It's worth noting that every words that Jesus spoke came directly from God. God literally put the words in Jesus's mouth

But i thought God and jesus were the same? how did god have to put words into his mouth? if he was God then surely he could have spoken himself,without having to say that God put word in his mouth!

Not every word Muhammed in his life spoke (if any) was from God.

thats ure personal bias and ure personal belief - it is not proof...

This and considering Jesus is truly a brother of Moses, and they have unique similarities Jesus is truly the Prophet spoken of in Deut 18.
It's also logical because the Messiah IS a prophet,the greatest prophet. No prophet can supercede the Messiah. He is the one the prophets all speak of.

What jesus was a brother to moses? the God of mankind? does that mean that moses was also diety? and again what am i reading ...the messiah is a prophet?the greatest prophet? the prophet it speaks of? - but was jesus not God, who died for our sins? prophets dont die for our sins!

u see i think Christians have to had to make themselves believe that Jesus was fully man, and fully God - it is the only way to justify the trinity...but it does have many many loopholes and faults...

He'd of wanted the Kaabah destroyed, it was paganized and was recognized as a symbol of the old pagan religions. Doesn't matter if Abraham built it long ago or not, it would still be so unclean it would need to be destroyed and rebuilt

The ka'bah itself was not worshipped - the ancient arabs use to house Gods inside the building, huge difference! please brush up on your research

Like the Hagia Sophia couldn't be a church again, it has been paganized by Islam for too long.

hehehehe sorry that made me laugh ...'paganized' by a monotheistic faith - right ok?!?

But I don't see how Abraham and Ishmael could have built the Kaabah, because Ishmael NEVER even lived near Arabia!!! He lived in the Sinai near Paran I think. Eventually his descendants migrated into Arabia.

can u bring me hard evidence of your claim independant of the bible? because there are historians who will beg to differ...

Did muhammed chemically alter water like Moses and Jesus?
No one human has done such a thing but those two.

how does this substantiate the claim that jesus was like Muhammad? seriously...how?

peace

 

[JCBeliever]

Peace traveller,

with all due respect, its stuff like this which really really makes me question christianity! Man, man and God, god before and god after death - but at the same time man...too confusing for me!
but i really do believe that jesus cannot be compared to Moses...why? one Christians claim he was not a prophet, he was God on earth - Man and God at the same time, but not a prophet as Moses was....i dont think any christian can deny wat i have just said?

But i thought God and jesus were the same? how did god have to put words into his mouth? if he was God then surely he could have spoken himself,without having to say that God put word in his mouth!

First you must understand that Jesus possessed two natures. He was God and Man.
ANd Jesus IS only the greatest prophet!! Who told you Jesus wasn't a prophet???
A prophet is one that speaks for God. Well, if God is Jesus's soul then every word Jesus spoke was the direct word of God. He is the ultimate prophet.

thats ure personal bias and ure personal belief - it is not proof...

So when Muhammed was talking to his wives in private or whatever, was Allah putting thoise words in his mouth??? I would think not.
Now if God is the spirit of Jesus than logically every word Jesus spoke was directly from God, understand?

What jesus was a brother to moses? the God of mankind? does that mean that moses was also diety? and again what am i reading ...the messiah is a prophet?the greatest prophet? the prophet it speaks of? - but was jesus not God, who died for our sins? prophets dont die for our sins!

u see i think Christians have to had to make themselves believe that Jesus was fully man, and fully God - it is the only way to justify the trinity...but it does have many many loopholes and faults...

Jesus was man was a Jewish man. He was born into the house of David through Mary. God isn't Jewish, but this body that God existed in, Jesus Christ, was Jewish and God put every in his mouth.
It's obvious that the Messiah is the greatest prophet.
The prophets spoke of the Messiah, and no prophet can come after the Messiah Himself.
The only faulty thing here is misunderstandings.

The ka'bah itself was not worshipped - the ancient arabs use to house Gods inside the building, huge difference! please brush up on your research

I never said it was worshipped. It was a symbol of the pagan religions however.

hehehehe sorry that made me laugh ...'paganized' by a monotheistic faith - right ok?!?

Where is it stated that paganism is only restricted to polytheistic religions?
Yezidism is a monotheistic religion but they are pagans.

can u bring me hard evidence of your claim independant of the bible? because there are historians who will beg to differ...

What historians claim that Ishmael actually migrated into Arabia in his lifetime?
He did not venture that far. His descendants eventually migrated into and colonized Arabia.

how does this substantiate the claim that jesus was like Muhammad? seriously...how?

It's something special only Moses and Jesus did.

 

[ALL4J3SUS]

KniteofIslam, you don't seem to get it, Muslims claim that Muhammed was the prophet spoken about in Deuteronomy 18:18
I will raise up a prophet like you from among their brethren. I will tell that prophet what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command him.

"their brethren".
Meaning the prophet had to come from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus fits into this category.
However Islam claims that Muhammed came from Abraham to Ishamael and so on. These are the Arab people. It is very clear though in the Bible that Jesus was that Prophet. There are no evidence to support that Muhammed was the Prophet, since the Bible holds little information about Ishmael's descendants, so you can't use the Bible to say that Muhammed was the Prophet, and the Koran has no geneology AT ALL.
So, clearly Jesus was the Pophet.

It's ironic that Muslims claim that the Bible has been changed and altered, then come along a verse like Deut. 18:18, and say "See Muhammed is a prophet of God!"

 

[IronEagle]

I will raise up a prophet like you from among their brethren.

What is meant by "their"? If God is talking about the people of Moses than wouldn't this verse be like "I will raise up a prophet like you among them?

 

[Letalis]

Why would God raise up an Arab prophet for the Jewish people? Don't you think that the prophet would have to be Jewish? And didn't Muhammad preach to mostly Arab people? Do you think God would raise a prophet for the Jews and have him preach to Arabs?

 

[peaceful soul]

Why would God raise up an Arab prophet for the Jewish people? Don't you think that the prophet would have to be Jewish? And didn't Muhammad preach to mostly Arab people? Do you think God would raise a prophet for the Jews and have him preach to Arabs?

Very good questions. You would think that this logic would make Muslims concede that it is most likely to be a Jew instead of an Arab.You would expect them to have a bias within the context of Qu'ran, but to boast the same bias in context of Bible is quite bold. It is straight forward and makes total sense.

 

[IronEagle]

Why would God raise up an Arab prophet for the Jewish people? Don't you think that the prophet would have to be Jewish? And didn't Muhammad preach to mostly Arab people? Do you think God would raise a prophet for the Jews and have him preach to Arabs?

First, perhaps because they are their brethren.

Second, depends if the prophet is only for Israelites. Muhammad (pbuh) wasn't sent for Arabs only. He is the seal of prophets, sent as a messenger to both men and jinns, and a sign of the last hour. Not really close signs like the return of Jesus, the release of Gog Magog, and the Dahabah. However, God sending us the last new messenger means that the last hour is very close.