Who is redeemed?

[Xeno.of.athens]

When the Lord, Jesus Christ, was sacrificed upon the cross and died who did he intend to redeem and who did his death in fact redeem?
Was it:

1. The elect alone, known only to God
2. All mankind
3. All of creation excluding the fallen angels
4. All of creation
5. Other; tell us who the others are, please.

 

[Jonaitis]

Well, if He only redeems believers, then wouldn't it be believers? You can't go wrong with that answer.

I suppose creation is included.

 

[d taylor]

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I personally believe this question is poorly stated. What Jesus did on the cross and His resurrection.

Was 1. He took away the sin of the world (believer and unbelievers) all sin has been accounted for past, present and future and i personally believe future sins that unbelievers may commit in the lake of fire. That is if they continue to sin, but i believe they may (continue to sin) being that their worm never dies. That is they will remain forgiven sinners in the lake of fire.

2. Is that He took away the sin obstacle between man and God. So the only condition God requires for a person to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life is to have faith, belief, trust in The Messiah for Eternal Life.

So who will be redeemed, anyone who trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

So who will be redeemed, anyone who trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

The question asked is who did Jesus Christ intend to redeem? Not who will be redeemed?

 

[d taylor]

The question asked is who did Jesus Christ intend to redeem? Not who will be redeemed?

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That still would not change my reply, He intended to redeem anyone who will trust in Him for Everlasting Life. Every human is a sinner, so all humans are in the same boat. There was not a particular group of sinners He (Jesus) was seeking to redeem.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

When the Lord, Jesus Christ, was sacrificed upon the cross and died who did he intend to redeem and who did his death in fact redeem?
Was it:

1. The elect alone, known only to God
2. All mankind
3. All of creation excluding the fallen angels
4. All of creation
5. Other; tell us who the others are, please.

His intention is that all of mankind be saved however , only those who believe are elected into His Kingdom. Blessings.

 

[eleos1954]

When the Lord, Jesus Christ, was sacrificed upon the cross and died who did he intend to redeem and who did his death in fact redeem?
Was it:

1. The elect alone, known only to God
2. All mankind
3. All of creation excluding the fallen angels
4. All of creation
5. Other; tell us who the others are, please.

1 Peter 3:18

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Romans 6:10

For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.

Hebrews 9:28

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life

Repentant believers shall be saved.

Colossians 1:13-14
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Romans 3:24-26

And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Revelation 14:4
It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb,

He died for all ... but not all will receive Him as Lord and Savior.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I chose "Other" as an option, only because I didn't want to only pick one of the other options. All mankind and all of God's good creation.

Mankind from our sins, from our self-made destruction, the wicked and ravenous passions of our flesh which incline us toward every sin and the sowing of so much harm--the harm we cause toward ourselves, to our neighbors, and the harm we sow to the rest of creation. And the injured and broken relationship toward God that has left us estranged from Him and hiding in the dark away from His light. Keeping us sick in heart and mind and soul. Christ has redeemed us, the Great Physician has brought the balm of salvation to us, and like the Good Samaritan has picked us up--broken and bleeding and left for dead on the side of the road by the robbers and bandits. He has canceled all debts, made full restitution, being the Righteous One in the absence of our righteousness. The Father has poured out all grace and mercy and every kindness through His only-begotten and beloved Son, that He might take us back.

Thank You Lord Jesus. Praise be to God.

And He has promised that all creation will be healed. For the creation itself groans in the agony of child birth looking forward to a New Day, when all shall be accomplished and God is all in all. For having made us and set us within the world to love Him, and that He might love through us, as we were made as stewards of the earth and all creatures therein--having failed that in every way--He saves us, heals us, and restores us, and in the end, even all creation shall be made whole again in Him who holds all things together.

I believe the Church has wisely reminded us down through the ages that we should not be concerned with the question of the redemption of fallen and rebellious angels. I am reminded of one story concerning one of the ancient monks of the desert (I don't recall who), who upon praying for the repentance of the devils beheld the devil himself in the distance in the form of a wild jackal, cackling and mocking the monk for his prayers.

Instead, let us hold fast to the promises of God, and confess the victory of our God over sin, death, hell, and the devil. Confessing these things, resisting the devil and all his lies by putting all our confidence in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Amen Lord Jesus, You have delivered us over from the darkness and the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Your marvelous light, having freed us from the condemnation and death and granted us the peace of the Holy Spirit. That we might know Your Father, and call Him our Father, and know the Father's heart through You who gave yourself for us weak and helpless sinners. May we always delight in You, may You daily renew us and strengthen us. May we find, day by day, that the pleasures and joys of this fallen world are nothing compared to the joy of knowing You, to the peace that comes from You alone, who delivers us from the shame and guilt of our offenses into the gracious peace and grace of forgiveness, having restored us to the arms of the Father who holds us and keeps us in You, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Today, tomorrow, at the hour of our death, and always, till the resurrection, and into the ages of the ages. Amen.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Trivalee]

When the Lord, Jesus Christ, was sacrificed upon the cross and died who did he intend to redeem and who did his death in fact redeem?
Was it:

1. The elect alone, known only to God
2. All mankind
3. All of creation excluding the fallen angels
4. All of creation
5. Other; tell us who the others are, please.

For a drowning man to be saved, he must accept the hand extended to him in other to be pulled out of the water. To same goes for Jesus Christ's redemption - it is an offer that MUST be accepted to be effective. IOW, those who reject it will not be redeemed.

So, Christ's redemption is for all who accept his sacrifice on the cross.

 

[ViaCrucis]

For a drowning man to be saved, he must accept the hand extended to him in other to be pulled out of the water. To same goes for Jesus Christ's redemption - it is an offer that MUST be accepted to be effective. IOW, those who reject it will not be redeemed.

So, Christ's redemption is for all who accept his sacrifice on the cross.

In the story of the Good Samaritan, how did the man beaten and left for dead by robbers come to the Good Samaritan to be rescued and brought to the inn?

That's the problem I have with the kind of soteriology you describe. It presents the Gospel as God meeting sinners halfway, rather than the kind of reckless grace He has in which He throws Himself away in love--for you and for me, and indeed for all sinners. He is a God of reckless love, enduring the total shame of the cross.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I chose "Other" as an option, only because I didn't want to only pick one of the other options. All mankind and all of God's good creation.

I feel like
All creation, excluding the fallen angels
covers "All mankind and all of God's good creation."

 

[ViaCrucis]

I feel like
All creation, excluding the fallen angels
covers "All mankind and all of God's good creation."

Ah, but I don't know that we can definitely exclude all the fallen angels. I just don't think we can know everything, and choose to follow the historic wisdom of the Church to not be concerned with it.

But, you are probably right. I also thought of choosing All Creation, but I think what it means to speak of our redemption and the general redemption of creation should be distinguished.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Brad D.]

When the Lord, Jesus Christ, was sacrificed upon the cross and died who did he intend to redeem and who did his death in fact redeem?
Was it:

1. The elect alone, known only to God
2. All mankind
3. All of creation excluding the fallen angels
4. All of creation
5. Other; tell us who the others are, please.

(1 and 5) Redemption seems to have a special meaning applied to His elect as a possession unto God for His Praise and Glory ( Ephesians 1:14 ) That once completed has a powerful hoped for effect on a part of creation which was subjected to futility by no fault of its own when man fell. This part will be liberated once the Sons of God are revealed. and are waiting with groaning anticipation for that day
(Romans 8:18-22)

But finally All of creation gets reconciled in the end through the cross. ( Colossians 1:15-20 )

So Redemption Special Place --- Reconciliation everything

Additional Thoughts: There is a special place for God's people who have willfully subjected themselves to the cross. Who have willfully given themselves now to the judgment that begins at the house of God. This has a powerful effect to break the powers of Hell in the end, something all of creation waits and longs for that was subjected to bondage because of man's fall.

And finally the rest of creation. ""the every tongue will confess and every knee will bow crowd" in my opinion who will come to know Him through His judgments as Lord. I'm not sure how that works itself out, I just know I wouldn't want to be a part of this crowd. But when He says every knee show bow and tongue confess I assume He means every. And when He says all I assume He means all " All things were created through Him and for Him ... and it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself whether things on earth or things in heaven having made peace through the blood of the cross."

 

[Trivalee]

In the story of the Good Samaritan, how did the man beaten and left for dead by robbers come to the Good Samaritan to be rescued and brought to the inn?

That's the problem I have with the kind of soteriology you describe. It presents the Gospel as God meeting sinners halfway, rather than the kind of reckless grace He has in which He throws Himself away in love--for you and for me, and indeed for all sinners. He is a God of reckless love, enduring the total shame of the cross. -CryptoLutheran

Your understanding of God's love reminds me of a hilarious incident a few years ago. A young woman desperately wanted her lazy boyfriend with shall we say, a robust stomach, to get a six-pack (flat stomach). Since the boyfriend couldn't be bothered with dieting, going to the gym or engaging in any form of bodily exercise, she bought him one of those expensive "electric abdominal belts" you are supposed to wear on tommy and let it do the job. It is supposed to tighten the stomach muscles and give one the desired flat stomach.

What's hilarious is the young woman visits her boyfriend a week after she dropped off the abdominal belt and what she saw was so hilarious she filmed it and sent it off to her contacts on WhatsApp. She had a spare key and on entering the house, she found her boyfriend sitting on his favourite armchair, dutifully wearing the belt with a can of beer in hand and about 8 empty consumed cans scattered at his feet and a large box of pizza and chicken half eaten!

You see, for the abdominal belt to work, the man is required to play his part by cutting down on excessive booze, watching what he eats, etc.

The above scenario is exactly what you described, and it would have been laughable if it were not so serious given it's about a man's eternal fate. It is people like you that harden lost souls that are struggling to repent and turn away from sin by giving them false hope that God's reckless love will ignore sin and welcome everyone into heaven. There is nothing in your theology that suggests that a man has a little part to play - by expressing faith and belief in Christ, i.e., accepting the offer of salvation.

In your view, there's no requirement for a man to do anything. He just has to live his life the way he sees fit; if he's into drugs, hookers or whatever takes his fancy, it's OK. He doesn't even have to believe in the gospel because God's "reckless love" covers all.

 

[Clare73]

When the Lord, Jesus Christ, was sacrificed upon the cross and died
who did he intend to redeem and who did his death in fact redeem?
Was it:

1. The elect alone, known only to God
2. All mankind
3. All of creation excluding the fallen angels
4. All of creation
5. Other; tell us who the others are, please.

In both cases, the born again. . .the same as #1.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

In both cases, the born again. . .the same as #1.

John the Baptist said, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
Well, did he?
Did the Lord Jesus Christ take away the sin of the world?

 

[Clare73]

John the Baptist said, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
Well, did he?
Did the Lord Jesus Christ take away the sin of the world?

As I stated in the Agnus Dei thread:

"World" and "all" have more than one meaning in the NT:
1) all without exception (everyone),
2) all without distinction (Gentile as well as Jew).

Apostolic teaching in the rest of the NT indicates the second meaning in the above.

 

[Mark Quayle]

As I stated in the Agnus Dei thread:

"World" and "all" have more than one meaning in the NT:
1) all without exception (everyone),
2) all without distinction (Gentile as well as Jew).

Apostolic teaching in the rest of the NT indicates the second meaning in the above.

In Spanish, the word for sin is "pecado". The word for fish is "pescado" and in some areas, the 's' sound is hardly noticeable. My sister, when she was little, asked if the man on the bottle of cod-liver oil (if you remember, walking with a huge fish slung over his shoulder) was the man who took the "pecado" from the world.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

As I stated in the Agnus Dei thread:

"World" and "all" have more than one meaning in the NT:
1) all without exception (everyone),
2) all without distinction (Gentile as well as Jew).

Apostolic teaching in the rest of the NT indicates the second meaning in the above.

In this post the same error is made as in the other post that you wrote. The word used in the cited passage is "world" not "all".

 

[Clare73]

In this post the same error is made as in the other post that you wrote.
The word used in the cited passage is "world" not "all".

Agreed. . .the word used in the passage is "world," not "all," both words having the same two different meanings, the second definition being the meaning in that verse based on apostolic teaching in the rest of the NT.