Who is "Morning star"?

[-Luca]

It says He went to preach to the spirits there... I'm assuming it was a place He actually wanted to go to and preach to the spirits there to give them another chance possibly, or one final last chance maybe, might have been part of His mission or on His "mission itinerary" so to speak to go there and do, etc... It was not Hell for Him though, being God, and being sinless, He was not affected by things there like most normal people are, or like we would be... it was where He wanted to go and what He wanted to do before He was resurrected afterward, and then before He ascended back to heaven afterward or after that...

That's the assumption anyway...

He was not sent there as some kind of punishment or anything... It wasn't punishment for Him, as I already said... And it was for only three days...

Hope that helps,

God Bless!

Thank you! So, who would have been in hell when Jesus went there? How would they have another chance?

 

[-Luca]

@-Luca The story of the life of Christ, Jesus Christ, is His life, (also his birth) then His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ or Himself...

It was during his time of His burial, that he was in the "heart of the earth" or Hell or Hades or the grave, and this was for only three days, then He was resurrected to be back here with us for a while in His glorified body for 40 days, then, finally He ascended back to the Father or back to Heaven where He came from in the first place lastly...

But, as the scripture says, He did not leave us as orphans, while He left/goes to prepare a place for us, He left us the Holy Spirit who is God also, to be with us forever or until the end of the age, and to help us deal with the Devil until the end of the age when He, Jesus Christ returns...

Until then we have the Holy Spirit, and that is no small thing or small matter either, He is very awesome indeed, and very, very powerful, and to have Him as an ally is...? Well, I don't know if I have the right words for it...? He is awesome, extremely powerful, grand and great and wonderful and beautiful and very, very glorious, and I guarantee you, the Devil is no match for Him, not at all, not by a long shot, and, He is on our side, and for us and not against us any longer, is on the side of those who believe in Jesus as the Son of God and the Messiah, and look forward to His return one day... And that is a very very great and grand and extremely glorious thing indeed... And He only wishes to help us and that's all... We just need to take His hand and walk through this life with Him, until that day when Jesus returns or comes to take us home...

God Bless!

Thank you, have a great day.

 

[JackRT]

When most modern Christians think of hell, they, without thinking, almost always have Dante's lurid medieval fiction in mind. “Hell” is derved from Old German and is never mentioned in the Bible --- no, not even once. Sheole, Gehenna and Hades are but none of them carry the freight of hell. Hell is not a Biblical doctrine but rather is a conflation of all the understandings above.

 

[-Luca]

When most modern Christians think of hell, they, without thinking, almost always have Dante's lurid medieval fiction in mind. “Hell” is derved from Old German and is never mentioned in the Bible --- no, not even once. Sheole, Gehenna and Hades are but none of them carry the freight of hell. Hell is not a Biblical doctrine but rather is a conflation of all the understandings above.

Isn’t hell the same thing as the hell in the Bible then?

 

[JackRT]

Isn’t hell the same thing as the hell in the Bible then?

There is no hell in the Bible.

 

[The Righterzpen]

But....why would the Father even allow Jesus to go to hell?

It was a requirement to pay for sin.

What did he even do there?

He preached to the spirits. 1 Peter 3:19

Myelin sheath are just insultaing pads that are attached the structure of nerve cells or neurons that increase the speed of communication between neurons and they don't affect decision making.

This will give you a little bit more information about brain development.

Maturation of the adolescent brain

Admittedly I am quite scared of the end times. I had an alarming dream not long ago, I know that it is only a dream but it was frightening. I hope it does not happen in my life time.

Well, I certainly understand that it is a scary thing to think about. Yet: "look up for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

 

[JackRT]

-Luca said: ↑
But....why would the Father even allow Jesus to go to hell?
Click to expand...
It was a requirement to pay for sin.

Since when is God subject to "requirements"?

 

[The Righterzpen]

Since when is God subject to "requirements"?

When the law demanded payment for sin.

 

[Neogaia777]

Thank you! So, who would have been in hell when Jesus went there? How would they have another chance?

I don't know, that's just what many assume when it says He went to preach to the spirits there...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Isn’t hell the same thing as the hell in the Bible then?

Hell and the Lake of Fire are different...

The Lake of Fire is where those in Hell go when they are finally judged or are judged finally...

God Bless!

 

[The Righterzpen]

Thank you! So, who would have been in hell when Jesus went there? How would they have another chance?

The theory is that "sheol" (Greek calls it hades) had "two parts".

The "upper part" allegedly housed those who'd been atoned for, but were not allowed into heaven until the atonement was completed. This is often referred to as "Abraham's bosom"; as we see in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Once Christ ascended into heaven upon death; He took those in "Abraham's bosom" with Him.

The lower part; which we still call "hell" still retains the unregenerate dead.

Now what Jesus would have been "preaching" to the "spirits in prison" would be that God is righteous and will not condemn someone who has no sin (a reference to Himself) And He came to secure atonement and so He, as well as those He's atoned for will soon be released. That's the message I think He would have been preaching to the "spirits in prison".

Now how complete this theory is; I'm not sure, because Jesus is described in Revelation as "treading the lowest hell". So, how all these pieces fit together; I"m not sure we'll really know on this side of eternity. I'm not sure the Bible gives us enough information to "figure it out".

So when Jesus's soul was released from Sheol, and He ascended into "Paradise" which is in the 3rd heaven. That is the domaine of God. That is where the new Jerusalem is.

Now is the New Jerusalem currently a "material" place? (Like a "proto-type" of the new earth?) That I don't know.

When Moses and Elijah appeared on the Mt. of Transfiguration; they appeared in physical form. If you remember from the OT scripture; Elijah ascended in a chariot and God "buried" Moses.

The Scripture also says that Satan contended with God over the body of Moses.

Does this mean God resurrected Moses prior to the final resurrection? Possibility!

The Scripture also talks about those who walked around in the holy city following Christ's resurrection. Now where would that have been? It would have most likely been in the New Jerusalem.

So if there are people residing in material bodies presently; it would be reasonable to conclude that they are residing in a material New Jerusalem which exists in some realm outside of our access. And so thereby a portion of the new heavens and new earth is already in existence and this is what Satan was arguing over God with concerning Moses's body. Because God hadn't even waited until the atonement was completed in human time to create this new Jerusalem and have people like Enoch, Moses and Elijah living in it, in resurrected bodies.

Again, another theory, based on Scripture that can't be proven on account of not having enough information.

 

[-Luca]

It was a requirement to pay for sin.



He preached to the spirits. 1 Peter 3:19



This will give you a little bit more information about brain development.

Maturation of the adolescent brain



Well, I certainly understand that it is a scary thing to think about. Yet: "look up for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

What does brain development have to do with Jesus?

 

[The Righterzpen]

What does brain development have to do with Jesus?

It was in reference to His experience as a human being. Him "learning obedience" and learning from the Father what His purpose was. The explanation for His behavior at 12 years old is partially understood in understanding human developmental milestones.

Now if you go read psalm 139; (I'll give you a link to it in another study I did) you'll get a fascinating explanation of Jesus's experience of being human and how what He came to understand about Himself (His body), how He was "created", why He was "created"; interacted upon His psyche in the relationship He had with the Father and Spirit.

It's a fascinating psalm to research in the Hebrew. Jesus was very "specially made" and He knew that. He was unlike any other human being that ever existed and He grew to learn the full implication of what that meant over the course of His life. He knew at 12 years old that He was the Messiah. Now did He know that meant these leaders He was speaking to in the temple (at 12 years old) were going to crucify Him? At that time; probably not. Did He know He was the sacrifice? Probably, because of the story of Abraham and Issac.

Now this story about Jesus in the temple at 12 years old is actually rather comical, especially if you know anything about human developmental stages. LOL

So here's 12 year old Jesus thinking "I must be about my Father's business." So I'll go to the temple; (which was probably the first time He actually remembered being there, because 12 years old would have been the first time he was "required" by law and custom to go and "perform his religious duty" as a male Israelite.)

So here enters another aspect of this story that we can ascertain both by Scripture as well as anthropology. At 12 years old, Jesus was no where close to even starting puberty. Historically, He likely would have been between 16 and 18 years old before starting puberty. Puberty takes about 2.5 years to complete in humans. We know historically people entered puberty later than they did, starting in about the 20th century. (In 3rd world countries this is still true; puberty is delayed until the latter teen years.)

So here's little bitty Jesus; probably no bigger than 4.5 feet high and 70 or 80lbs soaking wet! The average Jewish male in the 1st Century didn't top 5ft. 3inches high or more than 130lbs. The average Roman soldier was 5ft 6inches high and 160lbs.

And developmentally, bitty Jesus here had another milestone He hadn't hit yet; mylenezation of the brain. The peripheral nervous system is mylenized first. That begins shortly after birth (which gives one the ability to move their body through space). Mylenezation of the brain starts at about 12 years old and takes until one is about 18 or 19 years old to complete. Mylenezation of the brain (among many other things) gives one the ability to foresee and think through possible consequences to their actions. I.E. If I "get lost" Joseph is probably going to get mad. (And Joseph did get mad. That's implied in the Greek.)

So Jesus is skipping off to the temple thinking Oh well, what does Abba want me to do and so He's talking to scribes, pharisees and doctors of the law; and these guys are impressed with His understanding. At that point they probably wanted to take Him and stick Him in one of their yeshiva schools. (Which possibly / probably would have subjugated Him to sexual abuse; because that was common in those types of environments in the Hellenized Jewish ancient world. Take a look at Herod Antipas - the Herod who crucified Christ was probably homosexual.) Jesus also would have run the risk of getting abducted off the streets of Jerusalem and sold as a temple prostitute in these Roman / Greek temples. (That was also a common thing that happened to kids who were wandering about alone.) He probably wasn't particularly aware of those dangers; (or if He was; He didn't think about it - 12 year olds don't. That's part of the developmental phase they exist in.)

So 3 days later Mary and Joseph finally find Him and He says to Mary; "How is it you're looking for me? (or why would you be looking for me) Don't you know that I must be about my Father's business?" Then all the sudden everyone is looking at Him. (Well, Jesus that was the "wrong" thing to say.)
Then at some point DAD clues Him in: I appreciate your enthusiasm. You got spunk Kid; but You also got a lot to learn. Go back to Nazareth!
Jesus: Ehhh, OK.?!.....
(And Joseph is over there ready to paddle His little Divine behind.)

Scripture says Jospeh was a just man though; so he probably just swallowed his anger at this hapless adopted little child, walked over, literally picked Jesus up and walked out.
(Abba Father, this is embarrassing. I feel really small right now.)

LOL

Psalm 139 - last page of study.
What Did He REALLY look like? Chapter 4: Psalm 139, a bible fanfic | FanFiction

 

[-Luca]

It was in reference to His experience as a human being. Him "learning obedience" and learning from the Father what His purpose was. The explanation for His behavior at 12 years old is partially understood in understanding human developmental milestones.

But how could we say such a thing if we are talking about Jesus? You can argue that the biology should be the same as any other 12 year old, but if it is literally God in a human form, it won’t be.

 

[The Righterzpen]

But how could we say such a thing if we are talking about Jesus? You can argue that the biology should be the same as any other 12 year old, but if it is literally God in a human form, it won’t be.

One of the requirements for Jesus to be an appropriate sacrifice to pay for human sin, was that He had to be both fully human as well as fully God. So yes, Jesus's biology was the same as any other human male.

This is why God told the serpent "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Jesus was to be the seed of a woman. Sin nature is passed from father to child, not mother to child and this is how Jesus could have been born of Mary and not inherited a sin nature from her. He didn't have a human father.