Who is in control of this world?

[parousia70]

To me, any books that were written in the first and second centuries by authors or presbyters of oral tradition that heard the words Jesus spoke in his many teachings.

Since scripture records how many of the apostles own flocks fell into apostasy, I'm curious why you would automatically equate proximity to Jesus and the apostles with correctness of Doctrine?

Great knowledge was spoken by Jesus, and it was suppressed by [catholic*] ideology.

I bracketed [Catholic] because one could accurately substitute any number of denominations or Ideologies in that statement, Dispensational* Pentecostal* SDA* LDS*JW*, you name it...

I believe we both love Jesus Christ and seek Gods will, as most people on this forum does as well.

That I can agree with.

 

[parousia70]

Things are bound to happen because this isn't the way things were originally intended to have been. This present situation, both natural and social, is an abominable aberration, a complete deviation from the paradise Earth with a perfect mankind that was originally planned.

Mankind was not created Perfect.

 

[Radrook]

Mankind was not created Perfect.

Well, let's see what the Bible has to say about is:

Ecclesiastes 7:29 ►
New International Version
This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes."

Genesis 1:27
God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Deuteronomy 32:4 ►
New International Version
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

Genesis 1:31 ►
New International Version
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day.

So between your personal opinion and what the Bible clearly tells me-I think I will believe what the Bible tells me if you don't mind.

 

[Thedictator]

There are so many sides to this coin

God cursed Ham and all of his descendants, which many Bible Scholars agree are the African people. Who are we to say that God's punishment is too great, or unfair to people probably hundreds of generations removed. Wrong, God cursed no one, Noah made the curse, but not on Ham, but his son Canaan, who are the descendants of Palestine, yes Ham's son Cush made up Ethiopia, Mizraim is Egypt and Phut is Libya but they did not receive the curse, only Canaan did. Any curse under that dispensation would have been made void at the Cross of Christ any way.

This whole post seems to be the equivalent of why does God let bad things happen? God has allowed death and sin to have a place in this world, until the appointed time that he passes judgement on all of it... but lets not forget that God knoweth how to deliver the godly from temptation and reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement.True

 

[parousia70]

Well, let's see what the Bible has to say about is:
So between your personal opinion and what the Bible clearly tells me-I think I will believe what the Bible tells me if you don't mind.

That's a lot of speculation and inference but I don't see any scripture there directly saying God created mankind perfect. We know mankind needed food, water, air to breathe....A perfect being does not need any outside agent to sustain it.
God put the tree of life in the garden and told Adam he could freely eat of it.
A perfect being would have no need of the tree of life.

 

[Radrook]

That's a lot of speculation and inference but I don't see any scripture there saying God created mankind perfect. We know mankind needed food water air to breathe. A perfect being does not need any outside agent to sustain it.

Your standard of perfection is obviously far beyond and totally incompatible with the standard of perfection that God had in mind for humanity.

 

[parousia70]

Your standard of perfection is obviously far beyond and totally incompatible with the standard of perfection that God had in mind for humanity.

Now the Caveat?
Probably should have lead with that...

God's standard for Creation was that it was "good", not perfect.

(Genesis 1:4,10,12,18,21,25,31)

 

[Radrook]

Now the Caveat?
Probably should have lead with that...

God's standard for Creation was that it was "good", not perfect.

(Genesis 1:4,10,12,18,21,25,31)

Goodness entails perfection because without perfection he could not have pronounced it good.

He could not have been in God's image without being perfect because God is perfect.

Neither could God have considered a flawed image of himself as good.

additionally, Jesus was called the Last Adam because he was sinless and perfect as the first Adam had originally been created. Offering a damaged or flawed sacrifice for our sins would not have sufficed since what had been lost was human perfection and the sacrifice needed to correspond.

1 Corinthians 15:45 ►
New International Version
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

1 Peter 2:22
Who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in his mouth.

Had Adam been flawed or imperfect in some inherent way, as you claim, then Jesus would not have been called the Last Adam.

Those are additional reasons why I must reject your idea.

 

[parousia70]

Goodness entails perfection because without perfection he could not have pronounced it good.

He could not have been in God's image without being perfect because God is perfect.

Are saying God created Adam as His equal? That Adam was also a God?

Neither could God have considered a flawed image of himself as good.

Flawed? Who said imperfect = flawed?

additionally, Jesus was called the Last Adam because he was sinless and perfect as the first Adam had originally been created. Offering a damaged or flawed sacrifice for our sins would not have sufficed since what had been lost was human perfection and the sacrifice needed to correspond.

So your position is that Mary was born without original sin?
You sure you're not Catholic?

Had Adam been flawed or imperfect in some inherent way, as you claim, then Jesus would not have been called the Last Adam.

Again with equating inperfect with flawed?

Since God chose to create Adam as a being IN NEED of external components to survive, air water food, how could anyone consider that a flaw?

Those are additional reasons why I must reject your idea.

Why do you think God chose to create Adam as a being in need of air food and water?

 

[Radrook]

Are saying God created Adam as His equal? That Adam was also a God?



Flawed? Who said imperfect = flawed?


So your position is that Mary was born without original sin?
You sure you're not Catholic?



Again with equating inperfect with flawed?

Since God chose to create Adam as a being IN NEED of external components to survive, air water food, how could anyone consider that a flaw?



Why do you think God chose to create Adam as a being in need of air food and water?

Statement:

Are [you] saying God created Adam as His equal? That Adam was also a God?

Response:

No, there is only one God not millions. Adam was in God’s image because he had his attributes of being capable of reasoning, expressing love, justice wisdom, and in his control of nature far more power than the other material creatures God placed o this Earth.

-----------------------

Statement:

Flawed? Who said imperfect = flawed?

Response:
Being unable reflect God’s image properly is considered a flaw.

--------------------------


Statement:

So your position is that Mary was born without original sin? You sure you're not Catholic?

Response:
I don’t believe that Mary was born sinless.

---------------------------------

Statement:

Since God chose to create Adam as a being IN NEED of external components to survive, air water food, how could anyone consider that a flaw?

Response:
Easy, by setting up a criteria of perfection which tags those things as flaws then of course they will view them as flaws.

---------------------------------

Statement:

Why do you think God chose to create Adam as a being in need of air food and water?

Response:
Why did he create spirits who don’t need air, water, or food? Aparently because it is his pleasure to diversify..